Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Valikdu]

Well... my apologies again, Sindri...

I'll just leave this here and go back to Happyhorn.

Spoiler:

http://wavemasterryx.tumblr.com/post/45644437118

"Welcome to Snoziroh Tcejorp, where everyone's happy and Hoofington's a great place to live!"

[Moodyman90]

Oi! I was not with the guys who put that tank in the tree. I may have been one of the ones who said make it into a fixed cannon, but I did not put that tank into the tree.

Then we climbed into that minecart and shot ourselves out of the canon to go on a booze run.

[Overthepacific]

Them old days...
Some of the stuff I said back there makes no sense to me now, I look back and ask why did I say that? It's stupid/silly/ridiculous!
Oh well, good memories.
First posts related to the story made by me that I can find(January 16th,2012)

Heh, I think my first comment was like 18 days after that, although I only made a couple, most of them were asking how the new chapter was doing, and the first one was me trying to promote my humanized version of Blackjack I drew after I read 33. Man, cant believe that was more than a year ago.

Well, in light of my first comment, I suppose I'll do it justice whore out my artwork again, considering it has Blackjack and Psalm in it.

Don't freak on me, they were pretty much doodles.:

[Quotidian]

Doodles? Those are really good! Nice... lines? I guess? I'm not an art savvy person. I just think they're cool.

[The Holy Tuna]

Nice... lines? I guess?

And the award for most constructive critique goes to Quotidian!

[Guest]

@Pacific
They're deffo cool. I like the one of bored/extremely tired Blackjack with the disassembled gun!

[jacky2734]

Completely random topic, but I just thought of a question.

The Starmetal sword, was it ever stated to be a single-edge or double-edge sword?

I've always pictured it like a European-style straightsword with two sharpened sides, but most of the fanart I've seen of it depicts it as a single-edged curved blade.

[The Holy Tuna]

I don't think it has been mentioned, but I could be completely wrong. I always saw it as double-edged and very elegant (like the higher-level silver swords in The Witcher 2), although a duelling sabre wouldn't be out of the question.

[Overthepacific]

Completely random topic, but I just thought of a question.

The Starmetal sword, was it ever stated to be a single-edge or double-edge sword?

I've always pictured it like a European-style straightsword with two sharpened sides, but most of the fanart I've seen of it depicts it as a single-edged curved blade.

I've always thought of it as more of a decorative piece that just looks really brutal, as you could see anyway. I guess it seemed to me, since it was in the museum, it didn't feel like it would be used in combat too much, but because of its properties, it turned out to be a formidable weapon anyway.

[SilentCarto]

I'll just leave this here and go back to Happyhorn.

Spoiler:

http://wavemasterryx.tumblr.com/post/45644437118

I'm having chest pains!

Well, in light of my first comment, I suppose I'll do it justice whore out my artwork again, considering it has Blackjack and Psalm in it.

Don't freak on me, they were pretty much doodles.:

Hehe, I love BJ telekinetically field-stripping her gun. Why is that cute?
...I may have to get BJ's cutie mark engraved on my personal pistol.
I have no idea where to get something like that done.

Completely random topic, but I just thought of a question.

The Starmetal sword, was it ever stated to be a single-edge or double-edge sword?

I've always pictured it like a European-style straightsword with two sharpened sides, but most of the fanart I've seen of it depicts it as a single-edged curved blade.

I see it as a thick-bladed saber-style sword, for no reason I can adequately explain.

[Overthepacific]

Doodles? Those are really good! Nice... lines? I
guess? I'm not an art savvy person. I just think they're cool.

@Pacific
They're deffo cool. I like the one of bored/extremely tired Blackjack with the disassembled gun!

Heh, thanks.

[Quotidian]

Nice... lines? I guess?

And the award for most constructive critique goes to Quotidian!

I am SO constructive, you don't even KNOW!

[The Holy Tuna]

I am SO constructive, you don't even KNOW!

[Sindri]

I don't think it has been mentioned, but I could be completely wrong. I always saw it as double-edged and very elegant (like the higher-level silver swords in The Witcher 2), although a duelling sabre wouldn't be out of the question.

It's specified to be engraved, etchings of unicorns IIRC. Something too stocky would be a waste of the strength of the material, and if it were too thick it wouldn't cut armor nearly as well as it does, so it makes the most sense for it to relatively slim for its length. Other than that, I've personally always pictured it as a gently curved cavalry sabre; long, elegant, but clearly designed to kill quickly and efficiently rather than be used in sport. Both sides would be edged, at least for the last third to a half of the blade near the point, and the curve would increase ease of dislodging the blade from a corpse while on the move at the expense of a little bit of stabbing efficiency.

[CD]

Completely random topic, but I just thought of a question.

The Starmetal sword, was it ever stated to be a single-edge or double-edge sword?

I've always pictured it like a European-style straightsword with two sharpened sides, but most of the fanart I've seen of it depicts it as a single-edged curved blade.

Hmm, I imagined it to be shaped like a katana. Suitably exotic for a romanticized western medieval land of ponies, and based on some of the finest swordsmithing in the world. Only issue against it I see if that Japanese katanas went through an intricate process of layering and refinement, whereas starmetal is still experimental and very rare, so swordsmithing techniques couldn't be as advanced as for katanas.

[WavemasterRyx]

@tylertoon2, OAC, Sindri, Derpmind, Guarddogjr, jacky2734, Hinds, Silent, and swicked
- Thank you all, I'm glad you enjoyed the picture.

As for the Mirror Pool, it's not something I would choose to do a drawing about, unfortunately. It's far from Hoofington and most certainly either sealed or destroyed. And would require a lot more effort than I'm up to in order to make anything of it.

[Snipehamster]

Currently at work, so this post may be a little rushed and scattershot.

Ryx: Hnng, that is adorable! Boo deserves all the birthday hugs. My only criticism would be that you can't see Boo's forelegs - she looks a little like a bowling pin. I forget: have you drawn Lacunae before? She looks lovely.

Sword: I always envisaged BJ's sword as a european-style duelling blade rather than a katana. A straight-edged, relatively simple weapon with elegant detailing work. Something you might see british or european nobles using for ceremonial purposes (only pony-compatible, of course).

Revisions: I won't go deep into specifics as I don't have access to the story right now (this computer doesn't have the resources to handle gdocs).

First things first, the obvious problem - the Legate as a smug supervillain - seems to have been fixed. He comes across as a more level-headed and reasonable character now, even though his apparent motives still boil down to 'because zebra religion'. His powers are more in line with, say, Original Deus or BJ now, which allowed for a pretty decent fight scene.

Setting aside my original issues with them, the additional fleshing out of the Psalm and Lacunae scenes was interesting. Lacunae seems a whole lot more protective of BJ in this version.

My biggest concern, though, is still with power creep. While not to the extent of the original version of the Legate/BJ fight, there's some absurdities present. BJ deflects a sniper round with her face (not quite on the level of catching a tank shell, but still...), and can apparently go into 'reaper mode', which was originally the product of too much trauma and far too little sleep more or less at will. That's rather worrying, both in-story and from a meta perspective.

[AGurdel]

I searched a bit through the text regarding the sword.

I levitated out my sword, and slowly drew the razor edge along my mouth.

I drew the sword, taking a moment to marvel at its edge.

I don't know if this is of any significance, as English is only my second language, but both times Somber used the singular "edge".

According to Wikipedia a sword is:

[...]a sword in the most narrow sense consists of a straight blade with two edges and a hilt. However, in nearly every case, the term may also be used to refer to weapons with a single edge.

I found only one "detailed" description of the sword in chapter 11 and its not much...

I had seen a sword, but not just any sword. A sword twenty percent cooler than any sword I could ever have imagined, a sword made of white silver metal and decorated with etched unicorns.

The evidence is a bit thin, but I would say its a single edged sword.

[SilentCarto]

He comes across as a more level-headed and reasonable character now, even though his apparent motives still boil down to 'because zebra religion'.

I'd like to point out that "because religion" has been the motivation for a great deal of human history.

It's gotta be single-edge, I remember her pressing her hooves against the flat side of the blade to cut through stuff before. I think she did that with Deus tank when she was fighting him, even.

Oh, good point! I love it when textual clues support my preconceived notions!

[AGurdel]

Your right. I should have searched for blade or even "single-edged".

Chapter 26, fight against Rampage/Shujaa

I didn't have Mallet's magical strength and had to press my forehooves to the flat side of the single-edged blade.

[Derpmind]

My biggest concern, though, is still with power creep. While not to the extent of the original version of the Legate/BJ fight, there's some absurdities present. BJ deflects a sniper round with her face (not quite on the level of catching a tank shell, but still...), and can apparently go into 'reaper mode', which was originally the product of too much trauma and far too little sleep more or less at will. That's rather worrying, both in-story and from a meta perspective.

First off, the sniper round hit her in the head, not the face. Blackjack has always had a thick skull, so my first conclusion was that Twilight statue's boost to intelligence is obviously the reason it's entirely plausible. But take a look at the aftermath of being shot in the head:

“I can’t stop you,” I said; having a hole stabbed clean through me was giving my healing talismans a workout. Not to mention the pounding headache the bullet to my head had given me. “But just... don’t...”

That's the only time the serious head injury is mentioned, and apparently BJ gets away with only a headache. Now granted we don't see any medical treatment because of the time skip, (and I'm not sure Glory's clear for surgery when she's high on Dash,) but BJ's head being a weak spot used to be significant in earlier chapters (since she doesn't always have a helmet on). Really, none of this would be a problem if BJ was wearing a helmet this chapter. That's my recommendation: Give BJ a helmet two hundred chapters ago.

As for 'reaper mode', it results because the Legate demoralizes BJ by talking about how her defeat, the death of her friends, and the enslavement of Scotch Tape and Boo is inevitable as it's only a matter of time until BJ runs out of power. But there is little emotional build-up so it can be read as BJ pressing a 'go crazy unstoppable reaper' button. It's clearly not the intention, so some more emotional build-up would be appropriate. I don't know how that should be done, though, especially since it runs the risk of slowing down the tempo of the fight.

[Downloaded Skill]

...I remembered something about the fic that SilentCarto didn't?
What kind of bizzaro world have we stumbled into, here?

Thats it. Project Horizons as you know it is now over. There is now only Tcejorp Snoziroh. Everything is at peace, cats and dogs live together, BJ is now a sour prude, P-21 now really gets around, Boo is now dour and serious. Everything you knew was a lie.

[Caoimhe]

Don't freak on me, they were pretty much doodles.:

Blackjack looking BORED performing pistol maintenance!?!?!?!!?? MY CANON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

j/k Those are pretty great!

[Quotidian]

Thats it. Project Horizons as you know it is now over. There is now only Tcejorp Snoziroh. Everything is at peace, cats and dogs live together, BJ is now a sour prude, P-21 now really gets around, Boo is now dour and serious. Everything you knew was a lie.

Next time, on Snoziroh Ball Z! Blackjack starts the Wasteland Temperance Movement! P-21 wears a T-shirt that says "Free Hugs 4 Mares!" Boo teaches tax law, and Rampage says: "Don't do drugs, kids!"

[Downloaded Skill]

Thats it. Project Horizons as you know it is now over. There is now only Tcejorp Snoziroh. Everything is at peace, cats and dogs live together, BJ is now a sour prude, P-21 now really gets around, Boo is now dour and serious. Everything you knew was a lie.

Next time, on Snoziroh Ball Z! Blackjack starts the Wasteland Temperance Movement! P-21 wears a T-shirt that says "Free Hugs 4 Mares!" Boo teaches tax law, and Rampage says: "Don't do drugs, kids!"

All I can think of now is Boo, wearing a business suit, holding a pointer in her mouth against a chalkboard with the rest of the team at a table. BJ is asleep, P-21 fiddling with a grenade, Glory and Scotch looking interested, Rampage adjusting her power hooves, and Lacunae looking at BJ.

It sounds like an adorable picture if Ryx were to draw it.

[Derpmind]

It sounds like an adorable picture if Ryx were to draw it.

Ryx could draw anything and make it adorable.

Fear her.

[Sindri]

It's gotta be single-edge, I remember her pressing her hooves against the flat side of the blade to cut through stuff before. I think she did that with Deus tank when she was fighting him, even.

Actually, most swords designed for actual combat aren't sharpened all the way down. You're never going to cut a target with the bit right next to the hilt anyway, and if it's blunted you can reposition your hands to get better leverage or strengthen a block, so anything that's razor-sharp down to the hilt is purely for show or sport. Meanwhile even on a primarily single-edged blade you lose a lot of stabbing ability if you don't sharpen at least the end of the off-side. Like I said, I've seen it as gently curved, with the primary, outer edge sharpened most of the way, and the inside curve sharpened for maybe the last third of the length of the blade.

Chapter 26, fight against Rampage/Shujaa

I didn't have Mallet's magical strength and had to press my forehooves to the flat side of the single-edged blade.

Okay, so it is specified. And this in turn means that it's almost certainly curved, unless it's designed like a cleaver or something crude like that.

My biggest concern, though, is still with power creep. While not to the extent of the original version of the Legate/BJ fight, there's some absurdities present. BJ deflects a sniper round with her face (not quite on the level of catching a tank shell, but still...), and can apparently go into 'reaper mode', which was originally the product of too much trauma and far too little sleep more or less at will. That's rather worrying, both in-story and from a meta perspective.

First off, the sniper round hit her in the head, not the face. Blackjack has always had a thick skull, so my first conclusion was that Twilight statue's boost to intelligence is obviously the reason it's entirely plausible. But take a look at the aftermath of being shot in the head:

“I can’t stop you,” I said; having a hole stabbed clean through me was giving my healing talismans a workout. Not to mention the pounding headache the bullet to my head had given me. “But just... don’t...”

That's the only time the serious head injury is mentioned, and apparently BJ gets away with only a headache. Now granted we don't see any medical treatment because of the time skip, (and I'm not sure Glory's clear for surgery when she's high on Dash,) but BJ's head being a weak spot used to be significant in earlier chapters (since she doesn't always have a helmet on). Really, none of this would be a problem if BJ was wearing a helmet this chapter. That's my recommendation: Give BJ a helmet two hundred chapters ago.

As for 'reaper mode', it results because the Legate demoralizes BJ by talking about how her defeat, the death of her friends, and the enslavement of Scotch Tape and Boo is inevitable as it's only a matter of time until BJ runs out of power. But there is little emotional build-up so it can be read as BJ pressing a 'go crazy unstoppable reaper' button. It's clearly not the intention, so some more emotional build-up would be appropriate. I don't know how that should be done, though, especially since it runs the risk of slowing down the tempo of the fight.

'Reaper Mode' also bothered me, mostly because of the stupid name, but it was tiny compared to other things. I didn't see it as any sort of power up, just Blackjack letting go of all her preoccupations and distractions and hangups about trying not to hurt her opponent and finally letting loose and honestly fighting to kill.

Anyway, I saw 'headache' and read 'concussion.' That wasn't a shot she shrugged off, it was one that put her down for several minutes and would have had serious long term complications if she didn't have a built-in healing talisman. Should it have been worse? Maybe. The first time Lancer shot her in the spine it paralyzed her through a plate of combat armor. The first time she faces mooks with .50 cal rifles, the only thing saving her life was the helmet even after her first round of augmentations. Did she get extra skull reinforcement during the latest batch of chrome? I remember extra spine reinforcing, which then shrugged off the most recent sucker-shot to the back of the neck (makes sense, since it's made from advanced power armor instead of ordinary milspec ceramics), but I don't recall anything on the head...

[StoneSlinger88]

BJ had reinforcements along her spine, which connects to her head; it's entirely possible one of her friends suggested to add additional armor to her skull while she was in surgery.

[jacky2734]

Is it just me, or does it seem like BJ always seems to get an upgrade/new piece of equipment that would make her current enemies easier to handle, and then in the next chapter, she makes new enemies who can curbstomp her and make her new equipment useless?

[Overthepacific]

Is it just me, or does it seem like BJ always seems to get an upgrade/new piece of equipment that would make her current enemies easier to handle, and then in the next chapter, she makes new enemies who can curbstomp her and make her new equipment useless?

No, it isn't just you. It seems to be a vicious cycle of becoming near invincible to her past enemies, only to have to make up for it by bringing in even more powerful enemies. Where will it end?

This aspect of the story right now is taking away from the imagination of the fight scenes, it seems. Rather than attempting to beat her enemies with quick thinking and well placed firepower, and with the help of her friends, she just barrels through the battlefield without too much to worry about. Early fight scenes with the likes of Gorgon and Dues were quite entertaining since she was so outmatched that she really had to think on her feet and battle with all she had. Now she can take Anti-machine rounds through her torso that hardly even phase her. That might be whats edging up the ridiculous factor at times.

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