Re: Royal Equestrian Armored Division

[Fuzzy]

Wasn't there another brony clan on the NA server?

I'm in the European version of READ which has been around for a while. In fact it got so big we had to start putting minimum requirements for new members and kicking inactive ones. Now there's READ 2 and a shared chat channel 'read all the books'.
The material evaluation is interesting. WG treating mmage as the be all and end all of protection is silly. I read a gunnery report from not too long ago where some Americans got some German steel delivered (admittedly not too long ago) and they couldn't believe how good it was for how much was there.
Same with a complaint from a german tank commander complaining about the Czechoslovakian tanks and their armour being too inflexible and brittle compared to the stuff the Germans were using.
Russia had such huge production that what they were making their tanks out of varied wildly. Aparrently one factory started making T-34s with armour made out of pig iron.

Despite its flaws, I do enjoy WoT, but I certainly wouldn't treat it as the holy grail of tank knowledge. The Chinese tree looks especially odd to me, with the high tier medium line being completely ridiculous and making heavy tanks completely obsolete (their tier 9 has the classic bouncy russian style turret, low profile and the gun from their tier 10 heavy tank whilst losing little reload speed).
I'm also glad that someone else in the world is also going for the Centurion. I know its not historically accurate and it has some serious ingame flaws (the nerfed frontal armour followed up by the spaced sidearmour deflecting high angle shots INTO your paper thin side making angling completely pointless is one such gripe), but it was a really nice tank in real life and I really want to play with it.
I've played with it on the test server and it can be a very enjoyable sniper- WG modelled the suspension well at least so it can be very mobile when it wants to.

Hey Hawkeye, sorry I missed you in game. But I did get your message there but I was off compiling some reports for work on short notice at the time! I've added you, so if you ever spot me on give me a shout and I'll platoon up!

[Vergil]

iirc there's a bunch of pony clans on NA now, I honestly can't keep them all straight.

[XT Vengeance]

HEY! The Jagdpanzer is awesome. I shit on kids with it.

[Vergil]

As someone who played the jagdpanzer iv before gold rounds for credits- oh god never again

[XT Vengeance]

I don't use gold rounds but I still shit on kids.

[RoboRed]

The thing is a metallic bobsled made of annoyance. It has shit penetration that is only good against light tanks, arty, and some TDs. It has virtually no gun depression. It is unwieldy. I get put in tier matches against people who ALWAYS know exactly where to hit me (generally in my engine in the front).

I despise it.

[Fuzzy]

Some tanks really do suffer when someone knows where to aim. Churchill VII, AT-2, AT-8 and KV-5 worst of all.

[Vergil]

Aaaaand of course I just discovered that the connection problem I've been having today is due to a connection workaround I've been using since last year. Changed two lines in my hosts file and it works again like a charm.

[RoboRed]

You guys really need to see the battle in this vid at 19:42. The ending is nothing short of epic.

[Vergil]

Ugggggh why is he trying to snipe with an IS.

Pretty hilarious end though, lucky for the IS that the AT-2 was kind of a moron.

[Fuzzy]

Hahaha, I saw that video. Absolutely priceless at the end. I advise you to go check out that same account's latest video on the M3 Grant, a competition for most kills in that "turd on tracks" as they say. The guy who wins top spot...well, let's just say it's the best game of WoT I've ever watched.

[RoboRed]

I need to watch that still. I watched the runners up vid he posted the other day, but I haven't gotten to the winners yet.

On a side note, after a session of watching Jingles' vids, I always seem to find it difficult to read anything else in anything but his voice.

[hawkeye92]

I like Jingles' videos and especially the reviews of tanks. He restored my faith in the Centurion after the treatment it got on the forums. Incidentally, the EU test server is open to try out all the new medium and light tanks.
What are the weak spots on the Churchill VII and AT-2? I know of the others but those two I run up against and it's like hitting a brick wall, especially the AT2- I don't think any of my tanks can penetrate it from the front, irrespective of tier. The only point I know of is the oversized cupola, but that's still 100mm at tier 5.

[RoboRed]

I have no idea. I thought the same, but I've ever only managed to damage the damn things about once or twice in my history of running into them. I just generally go the other way and leave them to the people with the bigger guns.

I don't run into VII's that much. I'd assume the weak points would be similar to the previous Churchills. The look an awful lot similar.

And they burn quite nicely when you hit that fuel tank just right.

[Vergil]

I like Jingles' videos and especially the reviews of tanks. He restored my faith in the Centurion after the treatment it got on the forums. Incidentally, the EU test server is open to try out all the new medium and light tanks.
What are the weak spots on the Churchill VII and AT-2? I know of the others but those two I run up against and it's like hitting a brick wall, especially the AT2- I don't think any of my tanks can penetrate it from the front, irrespective of tier. The only point I know of is the oversized cupola, but that's still 100mm at tier 5.

The gun mantlet is the primary weakspot on all british TDs, for the churchill you should shoot the MG port on the hull.

[Fuzzy]

I like Jingles' videos and especially the reviews of tanks. He restored my faith in the Centurion after the treatment it got on the forums. Incidentally, the EU test server is open to try out all the new medium and light tanks.
What are the weak spots on the Churchill VII and AT-2? I know of the others but those two I run up against and it's like hitting a brick wall, especially the AT2- I don't think any of my tanks can penetrate it from the front, irrespective of tier. The only point I know of is the oversized cupola, but that's still 100mm at tier 5.

Churchill VII is the easiest tank in the world to damage. Just shoot the mudguards on the tracks. They look big and tough but they are barely armoured and make it take HP damage despite there being nothing to hit. It's a huge glitch and tracks it easier than it was without the mudguards. The insides of those mudguards are certain HP knocks too. Shoot the turret over the hull too, it's much weaker and utterly flat.

AT-2, gun mantlet. Right in the middle if you can and you'll likely knock out his gun too. But really the AT-2's biggest weakness is its traverse speed. If you get around it at all you've won no matter what you're driving.

[RoboRed]

And they burn quite nicely when you hit that fuel tank just right.

RE: "Burn quite nicely" @8:10

[hawkeye92]

Ah thanks for those tips, I probably would have never figured out to shoot the mantlet on the AT-2. I know the later ones had that issue but not the old ones.
I've been test driving the Centurion on the test server and it seems like a solid medium, but the magical ammo rack really is bad. I've had multiple games where the first hit to my front has racked me, repaired then the next hit does it again. It needs fixing, badly. It also means a wet ammo rack is a given, so you have to drop one of your modules. I'll probably end up going with vents, vertical stabiliser and wet ammo rack. Would have liked a rammer for rapid fire but oh well.

[Vergil]

It doesn't need a WAR, just train safe stowage and always angle the left front corner away.

Speaking of the test server

Spoiler:

I am in my happy place

[Fuzzy]

Ah thanks for those tips, I probably would have never figured out to shoot the mantlet on the AT-2. I know the later ones had that issue but not the old ones.
I've been test driving the Centurion on the test server and it seems like a solid medium, but the magical ammo rack really is bad. I've had multiple games where the first hit to my front has racked me, repaired then the next hit does it again. It needs fixing, badly. It also means a wet ammo rack is a given, so you have to drop one of your modules. I'll probably end up going with vents, vertical stabiliser and wet ammo rack. Would have liked a rammer for rapid fire but oh well.

It doesn't need a WAR, just train safe stowage and always angle the left front corner away.

WAR and Safe Stowage are pretty useless on the Centurion. At that tier any tank's shots will pretty much eat the ammo rack in one hit regardless of any strengthening. It's that weak when you look at the game data. In any element it's likely a tiny boost at best that might be better spent on additional repair speed to get away from being tracked and not be hit at all.

Speaking of the test server. I am in my happy place

It galls me that in WG's mind the Leo 1's L7 is more powerful than the Centurion/FV4202's given they are A) The same damn gun and B) Incorrect to reality. The British always had a better L7 varient compared to what they gave any other nation for a very good reason, it was what allowed them to dictate the ammo supply and sales or incentivise countries to upgrade. Furthermore, the L7A3 was not different from the L7A1 at all in terms of ballistics, all that changed was the breech block size to fit inside the Leopard 1's turret properly. Ye gods WG, do some research.

(History Enthusiast rant over...mostly)

But really, it's just galling to see a German tank wielding a better British gun than the British tanks.

Also, why does it get HEAT when they lump Brit players with incorrect and useless (on anything by FV183) HESH? It doesn't even work how HESH should. HESh doesn't damage the tank itself, it just casts masses of spalling inside that killed the crew and vital systems. If anything HESH should be very low HP damage but have a huge chance to knock out crews instead. But no...WG just sees it as HE. Even though it doesn't work that way at all...then they go and give HEAT shells to the Germans without patching the British one to use HEAT as well? Just...what.

Not to mention WG announced today the new German tank Recon Panther's gun does so much damage "because it has an unnaturally high velocity." Yeah guess what, WG...so does the L7. That's why it's still considered a lethal tank killer even in the modern world today and is still in service by even the US.

...okay, now I'm done. I promise. (Until something else emerges)

[Vergil]

It doesn't need a WAR, just train safe stowage and always angle the left front corner away.

WAR and Safe Stowage are pretty useless on the Centurion. At that tier any tank's shots will pretty much eat the ammo rack in one hit regardless of any strengthening. It's that weak when you look at the game data. In any element it's likely a tiny boost at best that might be better spent on additional repair speed to get away from being tracked and not be hit at all.

Okay, well we're going to just have to agree to disagree on that, then. What I said is what I've done with my Cent 1 and Cent 7 for 265 combined games so far and I've maybe had my ammo rack damaged a handful of times out of all of those, and that was only when I got surprised from an angle I couldn't protect myself from.

(History Enthusiast rant over...mostly)

We all have our moments. With me it's when people start referring to the autoloader drums as "clips."

EDIT: Also I should add that wargaming generally either lies or clearly has no idea what they're talking about in most of the review videos/ advice articles they put out.

[hawkeye92]

Wow, they actually said the Recon Panther's gun does more damage because of its' high velocity? That's being particularly dense even for Wargaming.
Admittedly with HESH although it is really buggy it should probably do lots of hp damage, since your hp getting knocked off represents major systems getting damaged- a round which just has a high chance of critical damage but little else wouldn't see much use in the game I think, too unpredictable. It could be useful against small tanks with small crews to knock them out in one go, but those are the same tanks which will get killed really fast by regular HE too.
I think HESH just needs its buggy problems ironed out.

[RoboRed]

I think I'm gonna DL the test client. This looks like a great opportunity to experiment a little with higher tier tanks and tanks I'm interested in.

[hawkeye92]

Yeah go for it Robo. Just bear in mind that the test server experience doesn't often reflect what you'll get on the main server, mainly because a lot of the higher tier people on there don't properly know how to play their tanks and gold ammo is much more common.

[Fuzzy]

With me it's when people start referring to the autoloader drums as "clips."

I think I love you.

EDIT: Also I should add that wargaming generally either lies or clearly has no idea what they're talking about in most of the review videos/ advice articles they put out.

Oh yeesh, don't they? Did you watch their Chinese tank review video? Let me paraphrase the line they ended it on.

"There has never been a time when Chinese tank technology was not the best in the world for its time period, even today China produces some of the most advanced ground vehicles in the entire world."

I nearly did a spit-take with my tea when I heard that.

Wow, they actually said the Recon Panther's gun does more damage because of its' high velocity? That's being particularly dense even for Wargaming.
Admittedly with HESH although it is really buggy it should probably do lots of hp damage, since your hp getting knocked off represents major systems getting damaged- a round which just has a high chance of critical damage but little else wouldn't see much use in the game I think, too unpredictable. It could be useful against small tanks with small crews to knock them out in one go, but those are the same tanks which will get killed really fast by regular HE too.
I think HESH just needs its buggy problems ironed out.

I dunno, a HESH shell that could knock out engines, driver's and gunners among other things and attempt to knock off the crew while relying on getting good flat surface hits would be really interesting I think. Something you could fire at tanks to try and knock out their specific advantages over you. IS-7 going too fast to catch up? HESH its engine and watch it slow down. French tank's autoloader causing a nightmare? HESH the turret and watch its reload times soar. I like the idea of side grade optional ammo rather than the "just better" kind they have right now, make it more about choice and weighing advantage vs disadvantages rather than simply more powerful shells, y'know?

[RoboRed]

Random lulz:

I nearly did a spit-take with my tea when I heard that.

fuzzy in my mind right now:

[Valikdu]

I just read about some new tanks that are being tested (for the further future, not 8.5)
One is the M60 (as a T10 medium). That, and the inclusion of Leo1, means that the Chieftain definitely is NOT "too modern" for the game. Maybe they'll really replace the FV215b with it at some point.
Also, there'll be a different Lowe model (one with the rear fighting compartment & 150mm gun) as a T10 heavy.

Also #2: in 8.5, the German light tank branch isn't a dead end anymore. The Recon Panther links to the Indien-Pz.

[hawkeye92]

I dunno, a HESH shell that could knock out engines, driver's and gunners among other things and attempt to knock off the crew while relying on getting good flat surface hits would be really interesting I think. Something you could fire at tanks to try and knock out their specific advantages over you. IS-7 going too fast to catch up? HESH its engine and watch it slow down. French tank's autoloader causing a nightmare? HESH the turret and watch its reload times soar. I like the idea of side grade optional ammo rather than the "just better" kind they have right now, make it more about choice and weighing advantage vs disadvantages rather than simply more powerful shells, y'know?

Actually, after giving it some thought, that's not a bad idea. It would add variety and more tactical descisions into the game.

[Fuzzy]

fuzzy in my mind right now:

Crazy thing is that's pretty much a picture perfect representation of how early tank battles in the Africa campaign went down when Matildas and Churchills were involved...nothing the Germans had could touch them till they figured out the 88 was a great tank buster.

I just read about some new tanks that are being tested (for the further future, not 8.5)
One is the M60 (as a T10 medium). That, and the inclusion of Leo1, means that the Chieftain definitely is NOT "too modern" for the game. Maybe they'll really replace the FV215b with it at some point.
Also, there'll be a different Lowe model (one with the rear fighting compartment & 150mm gun) as a T10 heavy.

Also #2: in 8.5, the German light tank branch isn't a dead end anymore. The Recon Panther links to the Indien-Pz.

Yup, we've seen some pictures of the M60 (It's an M60 RISE, even. Complete with huge silly lamp on the front) on For the Record. The Failowe looks to be atrocious though, it's everything that is bad in WoT. Rear mounted turret, flat sides, exposed tracks...thus far it's been cited as a massive failure by the super testers.

Chieftain would be insanely hard to balance though. Fact is the moment the Chieftain came into service it was ridiculously advanced for its time. It entered service in 1962 yet looks about as advanced as many modern tanks and wields the same gun that (albeit in a more modern form) even the modern Challenger 2 is still using and is also the gun that achieved the longest range tank kill in history. Its armour was also an effective 390mm from the front. If accurate in game, it would be impossible to penetrate with anything other than premium ammo from a frontal facing. Not to mention that it's a very low sitting tank that can go hull down by a matter of design. (It was a very defensive tank designed for the Cold War against Soviet tank rushes) It's fairly slow off-road, just 30km/h and the traverse speed was known to become sluggish through mud collection in the complex suspension alongside engine trouble most of the time.

Even so, despite saying "It's less mobile than other then" the Chieftain would be OP as all hell if it were allowed to be historically correct. It is basically impenetrable from the frontal facing, can go hull down to the point that only a sliver is visible, has the most accurate gun in history and the most modern sighting system available for the time. In the game, the Chieftain could sit way off in the distance and snipe tanks to pieces while happily ignoring any returning fire. Even then, it's hardly unwieldy if it gets caught from the side...the Chief was known for being one hell of a tough tank (HP) as well. I almost fear to see what will happen when WG gets their hands on it. The Chief is a legend and rightly so, I just worry it's too much of a legend for this game.

After all, it took the Soviets until 1976 to develop a tank (T-80) that could even hope to rival the Chieftain. That's a capability gap of fourteen years alone and even then the Chieftain was still considered a brutally lethal vehicle. Indeed, the T-80 was specifically designed to hunt the Chieftain's and use agility to get around them to avoid that insane front armour. Unfortunately for the Soviet's, by that point NATO were already developing what would become the "holy trinity" of tank design from then on. Challenger, Leopard 2 and Abrams.

[RoboRed]

Hey, Fuzzy, would you be interested in a few rounds later tonight? Seeing as how it seems the test server has given us a chance to interact...

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