Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Guest]

Hey I'm sure you guys have already seen this but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LohgzBKXLY&lc=QGkiRPmsMpA0inCNLQPYqxoyMbSNs_xUw2mzNCt-62A&lch=email_reply&feature=em-comment_reply_received

I think a lot of you could really help out this project especially with writing and design.

I like that song, but... do you mean this or something similar? Only I don't think the Friendship is Witchcraft team needs help with writing and design. Sorry if I'm off base!

[tylertoon2]

Hey I'm sure you guys have already seen this but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LohgzBKXLY&lc=QGkiRPmsMpA0inCNLQPYqxoyMbSNs_xUw2mzNCt-62A&lch=email_reply&feature=em-comment_reply_received

I think a lot of you could really help out this project especially with writing and design.

I like that song, but... do you mean this or something similar? Only I don't think the Friendship is Witchcraft team needs help with writing and design. Sorry if I'm off base!

WHOOPS SORRY
WRONG LINK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C6VP0h1XkM


Yeah thats what I was talking about

doy

[Ketchup]

I like that song, but... do you mean this or something similar? Only I don't think the Friendship is Witchcraft team needs help with writing and design. Sorry if I'm off base!

Yes, some of the people here can help with familiarity with the universe, if not more.

[SilentCarto]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, but here is my review of Project Horizons after reading to the end of the latest chapter :3

I dunno what that thing in your avatar is, but it's oddly cute. :3

Can you explain your problem with these "simultaneous events" more clearly? I don't understand what you're complaining about.

I didn't need that scene. I could have removed it entirely and had the hazard simply be the stairs. But that didn't seem quite like enough. So I threw in the griffon.

Well, speaking as a GM, pressure is an important thing to add to a scene. Without the griffon, she could take her time picking her way up the stairs and there's no real threat. With the griffon in pursuit, she can't do that. She has to rush and take chances, which is what makes an exciting scene. For my money, the "ninjas attack" style of writing isn't a bad thing; it suggests that the enemies are in motion too, rather than just sitting in their 10x10 rooms waiting for the PCs to kick in the door.

[Kattlarv]

@Swicked: Well, I guess if going with "good Christian values" or whatever to call it (a "being tired and cold" reply before going to bed btw, so these might be a bit messy), the mane six should all be expected to have foals of their own and whatnot if ~25+. And they'd be shown doing, I dunno, paying bills and being responsible adults and whatnot? Being just teens allow them more to "go on adventures" and be that "inspiring sister" instead of more of a mother figure or, something. I dunno really. Since as said, you don't (that often) relate to or idolize those much older than you, you want to be like the hip and cool teens. (just talking "business wise" here. Just take Ice age 3.. or was 4 the latest? anyhow, that movie has "this is how we think teens are", hollywood style.)Since after all, if you were ~7, would you prefer to think your favourite pony was ~15, and somewhere you could be kinda close to the same age as, could grow up to be like her, or that she is around 25-30, and could be your mom? In most cases, you already have your mom. And as said, I dunno how marketing works, but them being all young go-getters with their own dreams and hobbies and whatnot would seem to appear more "appealing" to young girls I think. (since as said, compare what you'd likely most want if you were ~7, a ~15 year old "sibling/acquaintance" that likely more "down" with stuff you like and whatnot, or a ~30 something "role model" that more is there to guide you and.. stuff.) And as said, Equestria isn't Earth, maybe 13-15 would be considered "adult enough", they seem to partially have rather carefree lives... to an extent, not including all the monsters and random shit ^^' But it seems a tad bit less harsh than earth, so a teen proprietor(is that the right word?) might actually be able to do just fine. And going with how they seem rather "specialized" in their work, the technical use for higher overall education might not be needed unless they want to learn more.

@Cao: Spoiler due to length, and prodding a bit on one of the "preferably not mentioned" areas.

Spoiler:

@Eru: Just random on the ages: I can just pitch in that it's not that uncommon in quite a few parts in USA and likely elsewhere to be expected to be married when around 16-20. Mostly since it being so hyped and yadda yadda, and the whole "no sex before marriage" thing. (so annoyed Lauren was made to put that in a comment, not sure if it could've been her, but feels like something she was asked to do.)

@Tyler: Firstly, listened the shit out of that song, especially one of the extended ones xP
Secondly, will check the vid out tomorrow, seems interesting.

Anyhow, off to bed now, and will actually try to just relax tomorrow. Unless I get a surprise inspiration, like that'd happen xD
And totally random: I drank water the other day, and it actually tasted not bad, that the first time in months, almost a year ever since I got my tonsils removed.

[Meleagridis]

Spoiler:

On the issue of scene transitions I can only respectfully disagree, I recognize that my taste for such disruptive transitions is entirely personal. On the issue of director's cut inclusions, though, you can't blame Somber. The Author asked us what we wanted, and we said that we wanted every last drop of Project Horizons until all that was left became a shrivelled raisin. So that isn't the author's fault- it is ours.
On characters, I can't speak for any unspoken, but Precious has not had a chance to play beyond the role of defeated enemy yet. Remember that she is living at HQ right now with all the potential disaster or salvation she may bring. There are still a few mines in Chapel, and not all of them are buried in the ground.
To everything else... yup. That was a well written review. Thanks for putting it out there.

Somber, I'd like to see some of the tools and notes you use in your writing to keep track of your plot lines and characters. I find writing techniques and behind the scenes stuff fascinating for some reason.

May I second this?

Hey I'm sure you guys have already seen this but...

Duh... huh. Well. Uh.

What are the odds that Somber would have the time...?

[SilentCarto]

Off topic, spoilery ranting. I saw the new Batman movie today, and I was underwhelmed. I need to rant, and you guys are my audience.

Sorry...

Spoilers - The Dark Knight Rises:

[Aonee]

Hey guys, quick question since I haven't downloaded the story like some of you, but what's the word count of all the released chapters so far? The FO:E wiki tags it at 945k so far, but I don't know if it's up to date.

[Caoimhe]

975,870 using the PDF.

The text file weighs in at 66MB.

[Aonee]

And my friends were impressed when they heard that FO:E was 645ish thousand words long.

[Caoimhe]

You could read Jane Eyre five and a half times or you could read PH. Tough choice!

Note: I'm not trying to be anti-intellectual, Jane Eyre is awful trash that has no use being taught in school. It has very literary merit other its age. It is also unreasonably boring.

[Stringtheory]

Off topic, spoilery ranting. I saw the new Batman movie today, and I was underwhelmed. I need to rant, and you guys are my audience.

Sorry...

Spoilers - The Dark Knight Rises:

I saw it a week ago, it wasn't a bad movie but the second one was better IMO (I never saw the first one so I can't compare/comment on that one)

all of your points are totally valid and I agree with them completely in hindsight (I do believe this is called Fridge Logic), though I do have to add that for your manpower point, where did Joker's guys get the RPG for that tunnel car chase/battle, aren't those EXTREMELY illegal? well I guess they could've made it, but still, most superhero run semi-entirely on Willing Suspension of Disbelief and lots of Phlebotinum, but usually Batman tries to be at least somewhat grounded in reality

[Stringtheory]

where did Joker's guys get the RPG for that tunnel car chase/battle, aren't those EXTREMELY illegal?

I haven't seen the new movie, but at that point, didn't he have the combined wealth and resources of all the major crime groups in gotham? I figure he had enough cash behind him to raid a military base, assuming one hadn't been raided beforehand by said crime families.

um, last time I checked Gotham was in America (and is an expo of New York), and that military bases are EXTREMELY well fortified, and even if they did manage to succeed, they military would be hunting them down with a high level of urgency, my personal theory is that they bought it through an arms dealer or built it themselves

[SilentCarto]

Note: I'm not trying to be anti-intellectual, Jane Eyre is awful trash that has no use being taught in school. It has very literary merit other its age. It is also unreasonably boring.

No, I agree. In fact, I have something similar to say about many of the books taught in school, and I feel that forcing children to read boring book after boring book tends to cause many to conclude that reading is boring, rather than concluding that this particular book is boring. Because after three or four, pattern recognition kicks in...

all of your points are totally valid and I agree with them completely in hindsight (I do believe this is called Fridge Logic), though I do have to add that for your manpower point, where did Joker's guys get the RPG for that tunnel car chase/battle, aren't those EXTREMELY illegal? well I guess they could've made it, but still, most superhero run semi-entirely on Willing Suspension of Disbelief and lots of Phlebotinum, but usually Batman tries to be at least somewhat grounded in reality

Fridge Logic only applies if you don't notice it while watching the movie. :p

Where criminals in Batman get their weapons is indeed a bit of a "suspension of disbelief" matter. Presumably there was a back alley, an Eastern European man, and a briefcase with money in it. I don't generally nitpick matters like that -- I'll stipulate that you could probably acquire a handful of illegal weapons or sneak a small team of mercenaries into wherever for the purposes of an interesting story occurring. But when the badguy has enough manpower to undermine large swaths of the city unnoticed, each so unswervingly loyal as to sacrifice himself for the cause, it does tend to stretch credibility.

[Moodyman90]

Yeah pretty much. I will admit, I don't actually read that many comics, but unless they're name then yeah, most cops are either corrupt or incompetent. Or both.

Good example of this is Batman Arkahm Asylum. I think other then Commissioner Gordon there was only one or two cops that survived the night. And one, Arron Cash, had been in the comics before.

[Icy Shake]

Off topic, spoilery ranting. I saw the new Batman movie today, and I was underwhelmed. I need to rant, and you guys are my audience.

Sorry...

Spoilers - The Dark Knight Rises:

I had most of those same problems, and some others, mostly tied to the financial hacking that was used to move the "steal Wayne Industries" plot along. Spoiler'd because.

Spoiler:

Anyway, sorry for the self-indulgent rants.

[222222]

@Icy Shake: agree with you on all points. Just thought I'd point out that Talia wasn't interested in sustainable energy, she just pretended she was to get access to the reactor. While Fox's antics may have been illegal, they certainly kept the reactor hidden very well.

[Guest]

Where criminals in Batman get their weapons is indeed a bit of a "suspension of disbelief" matter. Presumably there was a back alley, an Eastern European man, and a briefcase with money in it. I don't generally nitpick matters like that -- I'll stipulate that you could probably acquire a handful of illegal weapons or sneak a small team of mercenaries into wherever for the purposes of an interesting story occurring. But when the badguy has enough manpower to undermine large swaths of the city unnoticed, each so unswervingly loyal as to sacrifice himself for the cause, it does tend to stretch credibility.

Spoiler:

[CamoBadger]

Offering my opinions on the whole Batman movie thing (just gonna touch on a few points I've seen)

Spoiler:

I'm not trying to crush anyone's opinions or points here, just offering my POV and opinions. Please don't flame me

[Icy Shake]

Spoiler:

[Somber]

If it's any help, Silent, you aren't alone. This third movie was botched, badly. It wasn't just the fact that bane's presence was both incomprehensible and ham handed. It was from the launch onwards. The movie started with Bruce having been MIA for eight years. WTF? No. Batman doesn't do that. He'd go insane. The movie should have started with Batman taking down someone like Mad Hatter or Killer Croc. Albert comments that this really is no kind of a life and he's wondering what the endgame is. We should have seen Bruce in full Batman / Bruce juggling mode and introducing Talia as a woman who seems to 'care too much and knows too much' early on.

Suddenly Batman comes across a arms dealer who doesn't break. Who says there's someone in Gotham who's even scarier than the batman. Who says he's dead anyway... there's no protection. No escape. Infact, he's only alive to deliver this message... then he blows his own brains out rather than go to jail.

Batman does some investigating and finds a LOT of guns are coming into the city, but they're not hitting the streets. If they're not hitting the streets, there's no profit. Meeting with Gordon. Arkham is at capacity. Blackgate is OVER capacity. And there's a BnE at an energy subsidiary working on fusion... seems almost too smooth. Catwoman is involved. A chase, a fight, flirting over the stolen fusion core. Catwoman gets away....

We get a glimpse of Bane. She hands it over. He praises her. Then he asks a mook for a canister of tritium gas. The mook failed. We see a hand come out of the shadows. The mook bent like a fish bone, snap. Bane wants that tritum, but the only place that has it is Wayne Tech and she'd need Bruce's access to get the tanker of gas. Now Selina Kyle meets Wayne at a gala to address the poor and unfortunate. Talia asks if Bruce really thinks the city is worth it. If 99% are scum, why go through so much effort to save the 1%? Selina says 'hey, not everyone is an angel.' and Talia says that eventually gangrenous limbs must come off. Selina gets the access (biometric, whatever) and goes to flee when she comes across Talia, who lets her go?

Bane tells his minions to get ready to sieze the tritium. Ah, but what about the batman and the police? Ah... don't worry. Batman will be... occupied. Queue two suicide bombers blowing the front right off the prison. the bridges are severed. The tunnels are blasted. And then Bane himself blows the front off of Arkham. Batman's rogues all run for the hills, save the joker who snickers in his dark cell 'Oh, I just know the joke's gonna be on him...'

Now a montage. Batman working his ass off, fighting off thugs, beating down villains, wearing out as he tries desperately to save his city. Catwoman confronts him and says he shout quit while he's ahead; that this is gonna get him killed, and what the fuck is he fighting for anyway. Then she tells him that Bane is stealing the Tritium now and Bane told her to tell him. Batman, pushing the ragged edge, injects himself with adreniline to keep going. then bane steps out and calmly beats an exhausted batman, then snaps his back. So much for the hero.

Alfred comes to Bruce's rescue in the bat plane thing, and gets a doctor to help Bruce's spine after his 'accident' in the riots. Talia, of course, is there offering sympathy. Why doesn't he go away with her to Fiji. The city is in anarchy. People are killing at murdering... the 1% worth fighting for is gone! And he can't walk any more; he may never walk again! She'll take care of him... if he'll let her. Then she goes.

He stares out at the city. Alfred asks him why he doesn't accept. Bruce tells him that at the end of the day, Bruce Wayne is nothing without Batman, and Batman is nothing without Gotham. If he gives up on the city, what is to stop him from giving up on every remaining person in the world? Alfred says it's moot. After all, he can't be batman from a wheelchair.

Then bruce looks out at the city and wheels his way to the secret door to the bat cave He looks down all those stairs and begins to crawl down them. He drags himself through the bat cave to his computer and pulls himself on to his feet. Tottering, in agony, he glares at the computer and starts typing. Alfred finds him and asks what he's doing. Bruce asks why Bane hasn't nuked the city. He can't smuggle a whole tanker of tritium with a fusion bomb out of the city. So what is he waiting for. Indeed... he's not even sure if the fusion device would work like that.

So montage of him building the model, strugging to walk, failing to quit, meeting Talia in his chair, but wiring it up. He puts in the Tritum sample, powers it up. It makes plasma and then... Pop. The model fizzles and the power goes out... for five mils. Batman realizes that the EMP of the fusion reactor going off doesn't make a huge fireball like expected. No, it creates an EMP that destroys power infrastructure.... and worse. The EMP is trapped inside the earth's magnetic field. It'll expand, going farther and farther and destroying every power plant and generator in the world. Without power, the world is a few days away from ripping itself to pieces. Bane doesn't need to move the bomb. Once it has converted enough tritium to energized plasma, it'll cripple the world.

Unless Batman can stop him. And he has only weeks to pull it off. Batman works his body as he worked his mind. He simply can't wait for the doctors. He has to keep going. We see Selina looking at spoils taken in the rioting. We see bane making the energized plasma from the tritium. We see Bruce training, pushing through the pain. and also, trying to find out who hired bane...

Finally he's ready, it's the final night. And then Talia comes into the bat cave. She's known for years. She's watched him from afar, marvelling at his strength and dedication. He is a paragon of humanity... and Gotham and the world does not deserve his sacrifice. She pleas once more from him to join her. He refuses. Well... that's just too bad. And then she knifes him, driving him to his knees. This is a reboot for humanity. Her father worked to slow and too small. Humanity raped the planet for far too long... stab.... now it is going consume itself. Stab. It's just too bad that the future will be short one Paragon.

Then he's saved by Selina, who takes her out from behind. Batman drags himself to his feet, makes her staple his hide closed, and staggers to the bat plane. Selina's like... 'you're crazy and going to die.' 'There was only ever one end to this.' And wounded but determined, he goes out and faces Bane. Catwoman quips that the good ones are always the crazy ones... and then get's her head slammed by a bloody and really pissed off Talia.

Bruce flies over the city and Bane gets the call. 'I broke him once.' and then he picks up a missile launcher and blasts the batplane. It goes down, and Batman is dumped in the middle of the street. Out comes an army of thugs and criminals he helped put away. 'gonna fight all of us?' one thug asks. 'No. We are.' Gordon says as the police and a citizen army swarm forth to beat down the army of criminals.

Batman confronts Bane who bored asks what's different, really? He broke him once and he's still wounded and weak. But Batman isn't just a man. A man can be broken, silenced, killed. Batman is a symbol. An idea. A legend. and Bane, for all his strength and for all his intellect, is just a thug. A strong thug. A smart thug. But ultimately a thug. They fight, and batman injects him... Bane thanks him! He gets injected again. And again. And Batman is getting beaten as we hear a heartbeat going faster and faster, as Bane is getting faster and faster. And then suddenly he keels over, clutching his chest in agony. Now batman begins to beat HIM down. And every time he starts to put up a fight... another shot. Bane's heart is beating like a machine gun as he gasps for air. And then finally it stops. Bane collapses like a stack of bricks.

Then the tanker truck takes off. It's got ten minutes before the Plasma discharges the EMP and Talia is at the wheel. They rocket through the debris choked streets, kicking and fighting as she tries to stall. The gas pedal is floored. 'You fool, we'll both be killed!' 'Then I'll die saving this city. Are you going to die to destroy it?" And looking horrified and pissed, she jumps as it rockets down one of the blasted bridges. Batman stays at the wheel and steers it right off the edge as it starts to discharge, and then slams cab down into the river. Five seconds later the river glows a bright vivid blue. The city goes dark. From space, we see a huge chuck of the eastern seaboard go dark. In gotham, people stare up in the absolute darkness. Then the bat signal, wired to some car batteries, goes up. It shines on the clouds and the weary cops let out a shout.

To the denoument.... video clips of news reporting that the truck was dredged from the river with no body, but the EMP radiation would have fried him... right? People on the street, speculating on who the Batman was. The mayor saying 'I'd want to give him a medal and shake his hand, and then send him for twelve months of therapy.' Gordon saying that while he can not condone vigilantism, there comes a time for men to step up, to do better, and to give for for their common man. Alfred then meets Fox and signs over controlling shares of Wayne Industries to him, with a caveat that a significant portion goes to help both the world, and Gotham city. He then asks what Mr. Wayne will be doing on his 'extended vacation?'

Oh I don't know. What DO multi millionaire playboys do? Ziplining...' cut to batman swinging along a street. 'jogging.' Batman chasing down a crook. 'Boxing?'

'Protecting those who can't protect themselves?' and Alfred just smiles. End with dramatic music going up a building. Batman standing at the corner. Bat signal behind him. Then he dives, camera follows him, he shoots his grapnel gun and swings out of sight as everything flashes to black and then roll credits.

Anyway... that's how I would have done it.

[222222]

Oh that's how you would have done it Somber? Yeah no big deal guys, I didn't think about it that much but if I had done it, it would make sense and be awesome and sexy and stuff. You know I'm not disrespecting those guys, it's just I would have done a good job. Really though, you just rewrote the entire movie in a way that reconciled it with all the way the characters are supposed to act, while still staying true to the general plot of the movie, and making it more realistic. Well done at totally ruining any enjoyment I would have ever gotten from this movie in the future, and making me love you for it.
@Icy Shake: I disagree with her capability to get or make a nucleur bomb. Al Queda hasn't gotten the bomb with all the resources of Saudi Arabia at their disposal, I don't think a couple dozen mercenaries, no matter how trained or fanatical, would be able to get a nuke. But I've never tried to get a nuke so this is all just speculation on my part.

[WavemasterRyx]

@Erumpet (PSN)
- I used to play MW2 (<3 AK-47) and the newer CoD games a lot, but it's been a while since I've been on, unfortunately.

@Kattlarv
- Well I'm very sorry to hear you've had such a difficult life, ma'am... no one deserves to have such bad things happen to them.

@MLPOCG
- I may not agree with what you see as weak points in the story (merely my opinions, of course), but do allow me to extend you a warm welcome, sir. I hope you enjoy what time you spend here.

Still, my greatest fear is that the story will become boring. Which... the constant fighting does.... I'm doomed!

Sir, I've always been impressed by how, given such limited resources as the Fallout Equestria world does, that you've managed to keep your fights all so different and interesting. There hasn't been a single boring fight yet.

Oh hush. Yes, you've improved, but the original, unbrushed first two chapters were still enough to suck me in. And I, as you know, am picky.

This, very much so. I think I've backed up my copy of the original chapter 1 in seven different places on other computers and stick/portable drives.
I still love that original first chapter.

@tylertoon2 (FoE the Game trailer)
- Surprisingly... I find myself very... uninterested after watching that. It just gives me a bad feeling, I don't know why.

@(Batman)
- I'll take the first film from 1966 or Batman Forever any day. Modern movies can keep their fancy shenanigans.

[Kattlarv]

@Silent: (Batman) I do believe Bob goes through most of that in: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/6064-The-Dark-Knight-Rises

@Somber and C:O: (Batman) Use spoilers for spoiling things guys :P And hehe, seems like my late night rambling was saved by batman xD

@Wave: Thanks... and eh, I'm used to it. As said, I'm rather numb/jaded to be bothered by most things as much any more.

[OBS.GS.§S]

Hello everypony! This is the Project Horizons main comment thread right? Sorry if my entry is sudden, I've just finished every chapter up-to-date (chp. 48) and I'm absolutely thrilled with the story, like some of the posts earlier in this thread have said, the books they made myself and others read back when I was in school were overall boring especially when we analyzed them to death, but the way this story is being told makes it very interesting, evolving even, with each chapter bringing anticipation for the next. It reminds of when I was little and the anticipation I had each week of seeing the next episode of Dragonball, I remember my mother bringing me popcorn once because of how much she knew I liked the show.

As for analyzing and such, this is the first story I've read where talking about it with others is fun too! Not to mention it seems to be pretty intellectually stimulating at times. (Though I've heard there can be some... "interesting topics" from time to time, but I don't mind haha.) It really is good to finally meet you all as well.

Btw, so people don't have to fool with my username, just call me obs, short for observancy.

Hmm, now that I'm here, I wonder what the first order of business should be?

[Kattlarv]

It's coo. General rules in these topics are...I forgot half of them, but they are on the frontpage of one of the older threads :P
Can say though what I recall, don't speak about rape to much, don't poke at Somber to much and some "spoiler" hidden content are hidden for a reason, like many of my and Kipper's posts especially, (like when I invented the "spitting cobra"! Wait, I never talked about that out loud did I? Ah well, better for the sanity of you guys ;D) so thread with caution there ;P

[Ketchup]

Yep, you've found the discussion thread. I bid you welcome.

I agree with you completely, when you are required to analyze something you don't care for, it just gets boring and tedious. Looking through something closely that you are truly interested by, and discussing it, is a lot more enjoyable. Somber is excelling at keeping it interesting, I say.

Anyhow, welcome to Project Horizon's rather erratic discussion thread.

[SilentCarto]

Now we get to the stuff that very few people likely care about: the financial and legal details.

Spoiler:

[SilentCarto]

In any case, given her resources, wouldn't it have been easier to just get the materials for a nuke and make that?

That was another problem I had with the plot, but it's mostly real physics vs. comic book physics. A nuclear bomb -- one that's intended to explode -- is a phenomenally complicated device. If you started putting bullets into it, you wouldn't set it off -- you'd damage it beyond repair. They had to develop new types of detonators just to make sure all the implosion charges went off within the same microsecond. You could disable it simply by damaging the detonators, and even if your gunfire set off the explosives, it would just squirt the core out the side of the bomb instead of triggering a fission chain reaction.

Well, so now you have an improvised nuclear bomb that you have specially rigged to explode when you push a button. You're seriously going to tell me that smashing up random equipment with a crowbar isn't going to disrupt your preparations that required a nuclear physicist to develop? And that's setting aside the entire point that "fusion does not work that way"... plus, wasn't flooding the reactor room supposed to douse the reaction? Remind me why we couldn't just dunk it in the bay, again?

[Somber]

Oh that's how you would have done it Somber? Yeah no big deal guys, I didn't think about it that much but if I had done it, it would make sense and be awesome and sexy and stuff. You know I'm not disrespecting those guys, it's just I would have done a good job. Really though, you just rewrote the entire movie in a way that reconciled it with all the way the characters are supposed to act, while still staying true to the general plot of the movie, and making it more realistic. Well done at totally ruining any enjoyment I would have ever gotten from this movie in the future, and making me love you for it.
@Icy Shake: I disagree with her capability to get or make a nucleur bomb. Al Queda hasn't gotten the bomb with all the resources of Saudi Arabia at their disposal, I don't think a couple dozen mercenaries, no matter how trained or fanatical, would be able to get a nuke. But I've never tried to get a nuke so this is all just speculation on my part.

I'm sorry! But some of the movie really needed to BE rewritten.

@OBS. Welcome! That's Two! Two new ponies for us to play with!

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