Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[FeatherDust]

A pair, green and gold - I'm definitely going to guess it's Lyra and Bonbon. I see no reason for Blueblood to be going to that afterlife.

That's what I thought after a little consideration. Bonbon is sort of off-white, but that's not a shiny color, so gold seems likely to be her.

A pair of pink motes pranced and tumbled around each other with a tinkling like laughter while a purple and lavender pair hovered attentively nearby - I got nothing. Obviously a family with two kids, so I thought it could signify the Cakes, but the colors are all wrong.

The Purple and Lavender... yeah definitely the wrong colors for the cakes... it seems very familiar though, like I should know who they are.

I thought Purple and Lavender might be Twilight's parents, but I'm not sure. The two pinks I never had any idea of... I thought it might be the Cake kids, but like you say, pink doesn't seem the right color for them, and I can't think of any other sibling pairs. Possibly it's just anonymous souls.

[Icy Shake]

C'mon, I always thought that affinity, or at least tolerance, for puns was a necessary condition for being a brony. Though here I'd go for jarhead.

Come on now, that's a pretty low blow to the ballast.

Sorry, I meant that all in fun. I'm not the best at getting the desired tone across through text.

As for Soul bullets VS Soul armor, the simple fact is that that Soul Armor is just uneconomical from a battlefield prospective. Even without stuff like the Littlehorn agent you already have things like flamers or simple anti-machine rifles. See the fun part about armor is even if your wearing armor that can't be penetrated because it's reinforced by the souls of pones you still have to wear the stuff. So when a 12.7mm bullet hits your soul silk at 928 m/s that's 17k Joules of energy going somewhere. And unless Soul armor also negates kinetic energy (It's unbreakable not inflexible) that means your pony inside the armor while immune to the giant holes a 127.7mm round would put in him or her, they are still going to have to deal with the equivalent kinetic force transferring through which will be strong enough to break bones at the least.

And that's without stepping up to the still pony portable 20mm caliber where simple blunt force trauma since at 20mm your talking 55k Joules not just 17k which in physical terms is a compact car hitting you at 40 km/h except it's not spread over your entire body but localized.

In the race between armor and gun, it's been true that sometimes armor wins from time to time, but always bet on gun, there's just always more gun to go around.

I'm with you for the flamers and such. Thinking about the interaction between Pink Cloud and soul jars is interesting. Looking back, it seems Littlepip got the Fluttershy statuette in Canterlot, but in a building free of Cloud. I would expect jars to be incorruptible in addition to largely immune to impact damage, making them a possibility for protection against Pink Cloud, if sufficiently impermeable. That last part would be quite the trick, though.

If put into appropriately rigid armor, I could see the concept mostly working against standard projectile rounds, though. Partly this is because I see ponies as relatively resilient to begin with, and this could be coupled with other protective methods. I'm thinking along the lines of Steel Rangers gear, at least where supplemental devices are concerned: as long as the impact is spread and damped enough to prevent body parts from turning into paste, life support should be able to carry much of the burden of protecting the wearer. Given further development time, perhaps magical shielding options could be employed as well; there of course, your arms race comes into play again and we would need to account for bypass becoming more common.

Overall, you're naturally right about the complications arising from the need to defend against everything. But in the hooves of ponies somewhat more practically-minded than Rarity soul-enhanced armor could likely be a powerful tool, even if not a universal solution (not that she wasn't getting somewhere but...it doesn't make a difference it it never enters production). If nothing else, it would help overcome the Steel Rangers' vulnerability to small-caliber AP.

Seriously guys. It's time to put a lid on all these jar puns.

That's right, we need to preserve our efforts for later.

[Stringtheory]

okay, let's can the jar puns for now

[OneMoreDaySK]

Wait, what happens if you decide to make a blank into a soul jar? Is that even possible? Or what about another person?

@silentcarto

For a moment, I thought I saw a white pony with a flash of red atop one building. But then the rain stung my eye and I blinked... and she was gone

Probably Rampage then.

On Pink and Lavender... I got nothing.

[Meleagridis]

Wait, what happens if you decide to make a blank into a soul jar? Is that even possible? Or what about another person?

Probably Rampage then.

This is more for 'other people' though.
Wait... wasn't Sanguine's 'de-ghoul' plan basically making a blank a soul jar? He admitted that he really wouldn't know what might happen...

[NoodleNugget]

Spoiler:

[Quotidian]

Well, personally, I've just remembered that, ugly as I may be, my face looks pretty damn good with blood on it. On a related note, I just finished shaving. So I'm good! =P In all seriousness, though, what's got you down?

Oh, mostly that I can't come up with any more jar puns. I guess I'm just stuck in a... jam.

*is shot*

In all honesty though, it's kind of hard to explain to someone I don't know IRL. My personal life is a bit of a mess, in much the same way that passengers on the Hindenburg felt some mild turbulence. You know that feeling you got when you were a kid and you'd seriously fucked something up, but nobody had found out yet, and you were just waiting for someone to discover what you'd done, to the point that the waiting was worse than whatever punishment you might receive? Yeah. Imagine that, but from the moment you wake up in the morning, and you didn't even get the temporary satisfaction of doing something to deserve it in the first place.

And then when you talk to people about it, you feel even worse for being a whiner...

Long story short: if you're on SSRI's, for god's sake, make sure you don't wait until the last minute to refill your prescription, if you enjoy your booze in more than moderation, try not to hit on friends you've secretly had a crush on for years, and don't ever follow national politics.

Also, I can't imagine you're that ugly. Believe me, personality makes people hotter than straight-from-the-plastic-surgeon cheekbones and skin in tanning booth beige.

(And re: slashfics, I'm pretty sure they've been done before. Mostly like humorous little skits and stuff... I'm not qualified to really give a proper answer, though.)

Not qualified for clopfic recommendations? Riiiiiight.

[Meleagridis]

Spoiler:

I guess we really can't complain about mad scientists going overboard now. Maybe we should all soul jar ourselves into rigs like Warden Hubble at the end of 46 and find ourselves a Big Mountain and a Moebius to keep us contained.

Dibs doctor 0. And apologies to anyone who never played Old World Blues.

[RandomBlank]

Wait, what happens if you decide to make a blank into a soul jar?

Probably the same thing that happens if you open the case of a PC without OS and use it to store CDs inside.

[O. Hinds]

Wait, what happens if you decide to make a blank into a soul jar?

Probably the same thing that happens if you open the case of a PC without OS and use it to store CDs inside.

Souls can bleed into their jars, though. If a suit of armor can move by itself...

[FeatherDust]

OK, I have a theory on Nurse Graves. She knew what EC-1101 was right offhand from a vague description, and wasn't that program supposed to be top secret? I don't buy her claim to be just an ordinary nurse. I think...

Spoiler:

I also have a theory about Shears (aka Snips). This is the first time in 200 years he's had even a slim chance of going into Hightower and making it to the top alive (or ghoul approximation thereof). He needed EC-1101 just to get inside, since the front gate is a deathtrap. But he seems embarrassed and ashamed of his soul jar work, and dismissed wanting Project Eternity.

So, to my mind, there's only one other thing that might be in Hightower's attic that he would want badly enough to risk everything to get it.

Spoiler:

Oh, also, the silent watcher outside Goldie's cottage -- could that be #7? "A suit of dirty power armor."

[NoodleNugget]

a secret organization isnt going to be made up of very few people. most likely Nurse Graves was indeed a nurse, helping deal with those who got injured during project eternity thus giving her knowledge of it and ec-1101.

I think Shears is looking for eternity. hell, he made an horrible pun about it. “I’ve been waiting an eternity to get up there.” Eternity's possible last recorded location was probably hightower.

I have no clue how that connection was even made.

sorry to be shooting you down.

[FeatherDust]

I think Shears is looking for eternity. hell, he made an horrible pun about it. “I’ve been waiting an eternity to get up there.” Eternity's possible last recorded location was probably hightower.

I have no clue how that connection was even made.

sorry to be shooting you down.

No problem, discussion is what we're here for.

Yes, I caught the pun, but...
Project Eternity. The search for eternal life. I looked at Mr. Shears; his glossy white eyes seemed to drink in the words on the terminal screen. “This is what you’re after?”
The question made him balk. “What? No. That’s simply history. You probably have far more interest in that than I do.” His annoyance seemed so sincere that if he was playing me, he’d probably been a performer in another life.

Sure, he could be lying -- BJ says so -- but I don't think so. He doesn't seem to be interested in the project. (I agree with SilentCarto that Eternity is probably what Nurse Graves is after.) And anyway, to our knowledge Project Eternity was removed from the recaptured Angel ("died in custody") and put into Softheart to save her from the mortal wounds she received making the capture, which means it wasn't in Hightower, and Snips ought to know that.

No, I think EC-1101 is just a means to an end for him. He just needed a door opened.

Spoiler:

And also it's partly my internal writer. It's too OBVIOUS if Eternity is what he's after. "The guy who worked on the project wants it and was lying when he said he didn't." And why would he lie? Everyone knows he worked on Eternity. Everyone knows he's trying to get to the heart of their labs. Why would he make such a transparent lie as to claim he wasn't interested in recovering the project? The only alternative is that he was telling the truth, and he has a completely different motive for entering Hightower.

[SilentCarto]

Though here I'd go for jarhead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb1ShW3NUME

So when a 12.7mm bullet hits your soul silk at 928 m/s that's 17k Joules of energy going somewhere.

True, but you can also hang spells on it. The armor being impenetrable is a freebie, and if the spell in question were some kind of kinetic barrier or shear-stiffening spell...
The problem of being tossed around with acceleration sufficient to cause a concussion is a concern, true, but again, that would be something to fix with a spell. Perhaps transfer incoming force over some limit into the surrounding bedrock or air.

Wait, what happens if you decide to make a blank into a soul jar? Is that even possible? Or what about another person?

Generally, I would expect you can't make a person into a soul jar because they already have a soul. If you did that, you'd probably end up with a less indestructable version of Rampage. Even if you stuck the soul in a Blank, there's already a term for a living creature with a soul in it -- it's called a person.

not wanting to rain on your parades or anything but any chance we could stop the soylent green aspect of it?

No. The whole discussion is built on a foundation of "this is horrible and no one should ever do this, but..."

Oh, also, the silent watcher outside Goldie's cottage -- could that be #7? "A suit of dirty power armor."

Mmmm... could be, I suppose. Doesn't explain why it's working with the Seekers, or why it was just standing there watching, but it's possible.
Please tell me the Cyberdaemon isn't actually a suit of possessed power armor using its spell matrix to interface with the Hoofington city systems...
(Though seriously, I doubt it -- as I've said before, the Cyberdaemon seems to think in patterns that are alien to even the most basic instincts of a living brain. It's very smart in some ways, but also very dumb in others.)

And anyway, to our knowledge Project Eternity was removed from the recaptured Angel ("died in custody") and put into Softheart to save her from the mortal wounds she received making the capture, which means it wasn't in Hightower, and Snips ought to know that.

What makes you think the AoD ever had the Eternity core, outside of being executed to add her soul to it?

Everyone knows he worked on Eternity. Everyone knows he's trying to get to the heart of their labs. Why would he make such a transparent lie as to claim he wasn't interested in recovering the project? The only alternative is that he was telling the truth, and he has a completely different motive for entering Hightower.

I agree with this reasoning.

[Cptadder]

"]So when a 12.7mm bullet hits your soul silk at 928 m/s that's 17k Joules of energy going somewhere.

True, but you can also hang spells on it. The armor being impenetrable is a freebie, and if the spell in question were some kind of kinetic barrier or shear-stiffening spell...
The problem of being tossed around with acceleration sufficient to cause a concussion is a concern, true, but again, that would be something to fix with a spell. Perhaps transfer incoming force over some limit into the surrounding bedrock or air.

At that point with that much magic however your no longer talking simple armor but a full up Mobile Suit if a pint sized one as magic is stored in gems which have a non zero weight and are generally stored behind armor to prevent them from be smashed by gunfire (We have dozens of examples of gem breaks spell ends from everything from stealth cloaks to laser weaponry to power armor).

Yes I know Rarity was trying to make armor to protect her friends and she would have been quite willing to stick them all in full up Gundums
(Or Fox-5's Pony Mech designs)

Spoiler:

But for combat usage your rapidly running into a case of diminishing returns as for every Soul armor Soldier you produce you also need various spells to keep them alive and the fact that each Soul Jar must be made from a willing and loyal volunteer least you force personality change on the wearer or wielder. A Soul Jar made from say Glory would not be that bad, but can you imagine a Blackjack Soul jar? Do you like the idea of your elite forces consisting of horny pansexual mares with drinking problems and short attention spans?


On another note
When I'm reference the Littlehorn agent, the Pink smoke I'm referencing the fact it eats through most anything and that which it does not eat through it sinks into, in FoE there are mentions that protection suits that stand up to the agent soon begin producing it internally as the agent soaks through the item and begins producing pink smoke on both the outside and inside as it soaks up to much and has vents it in all directions. So your Soul Space Suit might be fully sealed, contain it's own breather and misting devices but spend time in the pink cloud and sooner or later the suit itself reaches critical mass and begins produce small amounts of the agent by itself as it vents what's seeped in. Perhaps a Soul Jar suit avoids this issue but you run into the problem of no suit being 100% Soul jared, something on there is going to be not soul protected.

[RandomBlank]

Do you like the idea of your elite forces consisting of horny pansexual marles with drinking problems and short attention spans?

Doesn't seem much different than 99% of military worldwide.

[Meleagridis]

Oh, also, the silent watcher outside Goldie's cottage -- could that be #7? "A suit of dirty power armor."

Mmmm... could be, I suppose. Doesn't explain why it's working with the Seekers, or why it was just standing there watching, but it's possible.
Please tell me the Cyberdaemon isn't actually a suit of possessed power armor using its spell matrix to interface with the Hoofington city systems...
(Though seriously, I doubt it -- as I've said before, the Cyberdaemon seems to think in patterns that are alien to even the most basic instincts of a living brain. It's very smart in some ways, but also very dumb in others.)

I kind of remember this. Do you still have that? I just remember Cybie as mad and desperate- I'd like to see the reasoning behind a foreign mind theory.

[Cptadder]

Do you like the idea of your elite forces consisting of horny pansexual marles with drinking problems and short attention spans?

Doesn't seem much different than 99% of military worldwide.

I said special forces, one does not make the SEALS, Delta Force, Rangers, the Spetsnaz, the SK 707, the SAS, SOG or any one of the two dozen other special elite services in the world with a greater than 60% flunk rate during training. The Seals are infamous for this because between their training regiment and Hell week (Famous the world over as the worst seven days in existence that are not part of a Escape and Evasion school or actual deliberate physical torture.) they have a 80% drop out rate for the entire program. \\

Now take this fully functional machine of a human being, trained to fight and kill in armed, melee and unarmed combat. Taught how to work with explosives while under water in pitch black conditions. Taught to train both their mind and body to the peak of human conditioning.... and add Blackjack fresh from Stable 99. Special forces are not like the rest of the military. They are expected to do stupid and frankly insanely dangerous things on a regular basis because their training as such the impossible is simply the normal for them. And that is not to say that America has a hard lock on that kind of firepower or thinking. We just over the past five Presidents have been in love with our special forces and not only spend more that the rest of the world put together on the military in general but we also have far bigger Special forces groups than other countries so we can use them much more often because if we lose a ten man team to an downed helicopter in Afghanistan we have another two thousand soldiers ready to replace them rather than someplace like Great Britain where it might just be one hundred.

I dunno. Folly contains a MASSIVE kinetic dampening spell, and it's tiny. You'd just need some additional magic that would allow it to know when to kick in.

A valid point, but I'd counter that Folly is a little unique as we don't know exactly how it produces that kinetic dampening spell. The gun won't fire anything else but the Silver bullets and those are Soul/Anti soul reactions which while not on the level of true MA/AM reactions the gun fires in the kiloton range of damage. Is there a gem in there somewhere that produces the spell or is Folly siphoning off power from the main shot to run the shield an the damping field?

[SilentCarto]

At that point with that much magic however your no longer talking simple armor but a full up Mobile Suit if a pint sized one as magic is stored in gems which have a non zero weight and are generally stored behind armor to prevent them from be smashed by gunfire (We have dozens of examples of gem breaks spell ends from everything from stealth cloaks to laser weaponry to power armor).

No, the soul jar takes the place of a magical powerplant. That's the big advantage -- you can run one (and, it seems, only one) always-on spell through the soul jar. Make that the reactive kinetic anchor, and you're good to go. Since the armor would be invincible regardless of its mechanical properties, you could use small, extremely thin metal plates attached to a sealed undersuit to provide flexibility around the joints, and a lightweight helmet fitted with a minor air talisman similar to the one in power armor for breathing. That should make the wearer invulnerable to anything except fire, since the lightweight materials wouldn't have a very high heat capacity. Possibly some sort of refrigeration talisman could help, at least long enough for the wearer to disengage.
Anyway, all non-soul jar equipment could be stored in a small box on the back, flanks, or chest, which would protect the talismans as perfectly as the wearer.

But for combat usage your rapidly running into a case of diminishing returns as for every Soul armor Soldier you produce you also need various spells to keep them alive and the fact that each Soul Jar must be made from a willing and loyal volunteer least you force personality change on the wearer or wielder.

You forget, a soul jar can be made from a slice of a soul, not the whole thing. That was exactly what Rarity was planning -- and if each suit were custom-made from its own wearer, there's no leakage issue.

[Cptadder]

No, the soul jar takes the place of a magical powerplant. That's the big advantage -- you can run one (and, it seems, only one) always-on spell through the soul jar. Make that the reactive kinetic anchor, and you're good to go. Since the armor would be invincible regardless of its mechanical properties, you could use small, extremely thin metal plates attached to a sealed undersuit to provide flexibility around the joints, and a lightweight helmet fitted with a minor air talisman similar to the one in power armor for breathing. That should make the wearer invulnerable to anything except fire, since the lightweight materials wouldn't have a very high heat capacity. Possibly some sort of refrigeration talisman could help, at least long enough for the wearer to disengage.
Anyway, all non-soul jar equipment could be stored in a small box on the back, flanks, or chest, which would protect the talismans as perfectly as the wearer.

Out of curiosity where do we see a soul-jar powering a spell?

You forget, a soul jar can be made from a slice of a soul, not the whole thing. That was exactly what Rarity was planning -- and if each suit were custom-made from its own wearer, there's no leakage issue.

The thing with that is that the slice of the soul thing is something that we know only worked twice. Once with the Counterbass and once with the statues, we've yet to see any other slices of the soul equipment out there.

But my point stands however as both the counterbass and the statues DO force personality changes or are you forgetting the effects of the statue and the way Octavia's instrument affects Blacjack, in a minor way but it's obvious it's affecting her when she plays it like an earth pony and her little mental lapses when she's playing it.

[Cptadder]

Out of curiosity where do we see a soul-jar powering a spell?

The figurines.

What spell is that? Each of the statues enhances an attribute yes but that's a spell rather than just... souly.. goodness?
I got nothing

[SilentCarto]

I kind of remember this. Do you still have that? I just remember Cybie as mad and desperate- I'd like to see the reasoning behind a foreign mind theory.

Sure. There are two reasons I think this.

First, the Cyberdaemon never goes around when it could go through, no matter how easy a path there is. It brute forces everything. When it had BJ in a tractor beam in Flash Inc, it tried to pull her leg off rather than cut it with all the lasers at its disposal. Why? Because pulling it off was more direct, and would work eventually. Even an animal mind can look at a situation and find the easiest path to its goal, but the Cyberdaemon doesn't do that. It picks a path and sticks to it, no matter what. In Hippocratic, its tactic was a full frontal assault with overwhelming force, ignoring 'easy ways' like the back door by the river. Its hacking method, likewise, is a vast number of probes, following every path, each easily defeated but attempting to overwhelm the defenders by sheer volume. Contrast that to the green line coming out of the security node, which retreated from and tried to bypass the Dealer's resistance, and defended itself rather than indifferently allowing him to stop it. And, if my guess is correct*, it simply spammed Hank with orders to kill Sanguine in spite of each one being countermanded. A living mind, even one of merely animal intelligence, would give up and look for another way instead of hoping the tactic that kept failing would succeed sooner or later.

Second, it doesn't act like a unitary consciousness, but like a distributed network. Back to the hacking scene -- it entered through every external connection at once with each entry point branching into dozens of individual attacks. Contrast the green line and Dealer's blue, which remained as single threads and moved from node to node like a person walking through hallways rather than like water following every route at once.

*My thoughts about Hank:
1. Given that Sanguine is still alive and not concerned about robots in his lab, it's unlikely that the spam tactics were working even a little bit.
2. Since the spam attack was thoroughly countermanded, we must assume that the defending system was at least capable of keeping up with the attacker, and probably superior.
3. Since Hank is the only suspect in giving BJ the memory recordings, let us assume that all the non-countermanded orders he received were involved in that process.
4a. If we assume the memories came from the attacker, then they must not have been considered a threat by the defender. But why would the defender allow any orders through? If it was easily capable of keeping up, it should have stopped these orders too, just in case.
4b. If we assume the memories came from the defender, it makes more sense. The orders were not countermanded because the attacking system was incapable of perceiving them, didn't believe them to be significant, or had no interest in countermanding the defender's orders.
5. So the more likely scenario is 4b -- call it 80% likely. So assume for the moment that the memories were given to BJ by the defender.
6. The nature of the spam attack suggests the same kind of behavior we've seen from the Cyberdaemon before, whereas giving BJ memories to guide her suggests a sneaky, roundabout sort of attack that is counter to what the Cyberdaemon has done in the past. It seems like whoever put the memories there wants to use BJ as its agent, and has a strong understanding of her psychology; it knows that she'll follow clues for no other reason than the desire to unravel the mystery. That kind of empathy doesn't sound like the same guy that screams "GIVE IT GIVE IT GIVE IT" every time he sees her.
7. Therefore, I believe the spammer and the orange hacker are both the Cyberdaemon, and that the green hacker is the defender and the one that gave BJ the memories.

[SilentCarto]

Out of curiosity where do we see a soul-jar powering a spell?

That's how Rarity describes them in FOE.
"Putting a soul into a soul jar changes the object. It becomes effectively indestructible, for one. And you can use the soul to hang other enchantments on. [...] It becomes a foundation. Not unlike a megaspell framework, I suppose."
--FOE, Ch. 24

The thing with that is that the slice of the soul thing is something that we know only worked twice. Once with the Counterbass and once with the statues, we've yet to see any other slices of the soul equipment out there.

Naturally not, since Rarity shut down the program shortly after that conversation. From the same memory orb:
"But the top magician in my Ministry says that he ought to be able to take that soul-shredding magic and rework it, turning it into a precision spell that would allow him to cut off just a small portion of a pony’s soul. Enough to create a soul jar without doing any real damage to the subject of the spell. [...] Think of it, Applejack! What soldier wouldn’t be willing to give up just a small bit of her soul to be put into her own armor, making it completely impervious to any bullet? Any weapon?"

It was in that very conversation that she agreed to end that course of research, and so far as we know, she didn't re-open it until she got the idea for the statuettes. But if they had continued that program, it clearly would have worked, since we have at least two examples where it did. Therefore, we can assume any theoretical 'soul jarmor' would use the snip technique rather than implanting a whole soul.

But my point stands however as both the counterbass and the statues DO force personality changes...

I never said they didn't. My point was, if you're wearing a piece of your own soul, it can't possibly change you.

[SilentCarto]

In the end, though, soul jars might be closer to the philosopher's stone from Full Metal Alchemist. They aren't so much fueling spells as they are allowing the spells to become exceptions to the rules, expending energy without having energy to expend. Just a sort of general physics breaker.

Well, unicorn magic technically breaks conservation of energy too, right? And all other ponies have the same capacity to channel magic in their own ways. My headcanon says that a soul jar with a spell attached is using the soul as a conduit, as if it were a unicorn that was constantly casting the spell. So wherever the energy for magic comes from, that's where the power for a soul jar comes from, too.

[Cptadder]

That's how Rarity describes them in FOE.
"Putting a soul into a soul jar changes the object. It becomes effectively indestructible, for one. And you can use the soul to hang other enchantments on. [...] It becomes a foundation. Not unlike a megaspell framework, I suppose."
--FOE, Ch. 24

Thank you

It was in that very conversation that she agreed to end that course of research, and so far as we know, she didn't re-open it until she got the idea for the statuettes. But if they had continued that program, it clearly would have worked, since we have at least two examples where it did. Therefore, we can assume any theoretical 'soul jarmor' would use the snip technique rather than implanting a whole soul.

Valid point

I never said they didn't. My point was, if you're wearing a piece of your own soul, it can't possibly change you.

Ahah I misunderstood you

Well, unicorn magic technically breaks conservation of energy too, right? And all other ponies have the same capacity to channel magic in their own ways. My headcanon says that a soul jar with a spell attached is using the soul as a conduit, as if it were a unicorn that was constantly casting the spell. So wherever the energy for magic comes from, that's where the power for a soul jar comes from, too.

Not necessary, magic does not break conservation of energy if there is some other power source it's tapping as yet unknown to science. I don't have to charge in my cell phone that often not because it runs off of magic but because it's got one of those handy add on that lets it draw a trickle charge from the air itself because all those EM waves in the air can be harnessed to pull out electricity to power devices. Not a ton of it, but enough to keep my phone's battery from going dead in a week on standby to a full month. If unicorn magic is pulling it's power from elsewhere then it's not violating conservation of energy.

Not to say all unicorn magic does not violate conservation of energy, want it need it for example shits all over several laws while teleportation can be worked into the standard model pretty easily (Never mind the energy requirements are high enough for us to be able to stick two clamps to Twilight's horn and power a major city off of just one of her teleportation tricks).

[Derpmind]

Is there any reason that Unicorn magic has to break thermodynamics? Whatever extra weird-physics that Equestria might run on that enables 'magic,' why can't the simple chemical energy from eating food be expended in using Unicorn spells? Sure, the spells themselves may be using energy in exotic ways, but there's no reason that the math can't (mostly) work out even, right?

Also, remember that in FoE Celestia's soul strengthened the already ridiculous-strength shield around the SPP project, if you need more evidence of soul-empowered spells. Also, the Dealer is attached to EC-1101, which is, again, a spell.

[Meleagridis]

First, the Cyberdaemon never goes around when it could go through, no matter how easy a path there is.

Much of this seems to rely on Cybie being unable to see a path involving more than brute force, and is incapable of learning any other method. How do you reconcile its poorly thought out but admittedly subversive tactics at Flash Industries? Blackjack was there, it had the power to rip her apart. It chose to try and fool her.

[Guest]

In all honesty though, it's kind of hard to explain to someone I don't know IRL. My personal life is a bit of a mess, in much the same way that passengers on the Hindenburg felt some mild turbulence. You know that feeling you got when you were a kid and you'd seriously fucked something up, but nobody had found out yet, and you were just waiting for someone to discover what you'd done, to the point that the waiting was worse than whatever punishment you might receive? Yeah. Imagine that, but from the moment you wake up in the morning, and you didn't even get the temporary satisfaction of doing something to deserve it in the first place.

And then when you talk to people about it, you feel even worse for being a whiner...

Long story short: if you're on SSRI's, for god's sake, make sure you don't wait until the last minute to refill your prescription, if you enjoy your booze in more than moderation, try not to hit on friends you've secretly had a crush on for years, and don't ever follow national politics.

Also, I can't imagine you're that ugly. Believe me, personality makes people hotter than straight-from-the-plastic-surgeon cheekbones and skin in tanning booth beige.

(And re: slashfics, I'm pretty sure they've been done before. Mostly like humorous little skits and stuff... I'm not qualified to really give a proper answer, though.)

Not qualified for clopfic recommendations? Riiiiiight.

The guilt thing actually sounds somewhat familiar, to be honest. Not every day, though. And you don't have to feel bad for talking about it - sometimes it helps. It doesn't sound like whining to me; not to mention that I did ask, after all.

Anyroad, I can definitely agree with you that refilling prescriptions at the last minute will pretty much inevitably lead to complications ('cos of Murphy's law). And I'm right there with ya on the crush thing, mate - you sure it wouldn't work out? I'm probably not the one to listen to for advice on this sort of thing, but you never know. Anyway, most folks tend to forgive drunken antics in my experience, at least if it doesn't become a habit.

As for national politics... yeah, best not to touch those. Only thing worse than national politics is international politics (hello, Russia and Syria!).

Thanks for the not-ugly thing, though if I'm honest it is a bit more complicated - what isn't, though? =P

And I could give you recommendations on decent erotic fiction if you wanted, I expect. Not as good recommendations as some, and it'd mostly focus on story content and stuff like that, 'cos that's what I know about, but still. =P Technically, I could in fact do that!

I was scrolling through the thread and accidentally middle mouse button clicked on the minus on one of your posts, and can't undo it - I gave a plus on another post of yours, though, so hopefully that helps somehow. Apologies, there was nothing wrong with your post!

[SilentCarto]

Much of this seems to rely on Cybie being unable to see a path involving more than brute force, and is incapable of learning any other method. How do you reconcile its poorly thought out but admittedly subversive tactics at Flash Industries? Blackjack was there, it had the power to rip her apart. It chose to try and fool her.

I'm not so sure. Terms like 'deception' are an organic mindset. This was the first time the Cyberdaemon reacted to the name "Goldenblood". Perhaps it thought that, since she asked for him, Goldie was her commander, or had root access, to use computer terms -- that she would obey his image without question. So it attempted to log in as Goldenblood, so to speak.

Even the Robomination was capable of conversation to some extent. "YOU DARE!" and all that, when she pulled Folly on it. The Cyberdaemon is smart in some ways, like I said before. It's not simply a raging bull; it's just alien. It doesn't understand mortals at all.

[SilentCarto]

In the Fallout Equestria world using unicorn magic too much results in burnout, though, so there's definitely a finite limit to how much magical energy a unicorn has.

Eh, that could be argued. My muscles getting tired has nothing to do with my body running out of energy supplies, and I can over-stress them and injure myself without getting tired. Burnout could be a sort of overheat or strain in the part of the system that shapes and controls the magic rather than a sign that the power supply has been depleted.

Is there any reason that Unicorn magic has to break thermodynamics? Whatever extra weird-physics that Equestria might run on that enables 'magic,' why can't the simple chemical energy from eating food be expended in using Unicorn spells? Sure, the spells themselves may be using energy in exotic ways, but there's no reason that the math can't (mostly) work out even, right?

Only if unicorns eat enough calories to fuel a fighter jet. Imagine how much energy it would cost to lift a multi-ton bear against gravity for a couple minutes on end!

It seems to understand them more than the forty something foals locked up in that medical center.
Are you sure this couldn't just be an augmented and insane pony, as opposed to an entirely artificial construct?

I don't understand your reference, there. The foals showed a diabolically twisted grasp of psychology. They used a maintenance robot dressed up in sewn skins as a lure. They set traps, like a companion cube/jack-in-the-box full of defused grenades, with a bomb set on a delay just long enough for someone to realize the grenades weren't going to explode and step out of cover in relief. They threw a memory orb to trap BJ when she displayed the skill to use her telekinesis against grenades.

The Cyberdaemon, though, doesn't seem to react to resistance like a mortal at all. There's a difference between bulling through resistance because you know you can do it, and beating your head against a wall four million times. Even an insane pony is still a pony at its core.

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