Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Sindri]

That's a few reasons that zebras might like ballistic missiles, and several for why it would be cool if they did, but no evidence that it fits the story or the technology as it stands. Nobody's saying they wouldn't use them if they had them, but it seems unlikely that the would and the descriptions we have so far of the last day of the war don't seem to fit with ballistic missile use.

Oh, and the helium shortage...

I don't see why everybody wants to use helium for everything. There are a few applications where you need an ultralight noble gas, but not many and almost everything that they use it for these days could be done better by hydrogen. Lighter, cheaper, can be made by just running a current through water, is actually containable in the long term (helium has the smallest molecule ever, allowing it to fit through the gaps in whatever container you use), and as an added bonus, highly flammable! Everybody wins!

re space programs:
Anyone else here tremendously excited about the work REL is doing?

YES.

Heh, daily check, how is everyone today?

Eh, had a minor headache for a couple weeks straight (easily ignored when my mind is working on something else, but very problematic when trying to sleep or doing mindless grunt work), my eyes itch for some reason (they didn't adapt as well as the rest of me to my average of 3-4 hours of sleep a night, so they expect to be closed for an extra 4-5 hours out of every 24), I spent six hours today failing at plumbing, and I have been exposed to much more than the recommended amount of natural light for someone of my physiology.

So overall pretty good.

(Door) You think Ms Twilight Sparkle would allow somepony else to decide what door to put in her super secret room? THE Twilight Sparkle, the one that double checks if she triple checked the check-list?

I think she would check off "door" followed by "magical securing of the door" and then get on with saving Equestria. A little thing like a lock is beneath her notice.

Development time and cost is largely irrelevant in FO:E because you have walking armoured battle robots, lasers, power armour and all sorts of crazy stuff that despite years of trying, we haven't cracked yet. But Nuclear missiles have been in plentiful supply for a long time.

...We have those things. No weaponized personal scale lasers, but that's because you can get a lot more damage from the same energy by putting it in a slug; it's an efficiency thing that magic fixes for them. We have powered exoskeletons, battle bots (and autonomous flying assassin drones), etc. But here, the nuclear bomb was something that was raced toward while those other thigns remained fantasies. The missiles that carry them developed naturally out of mundane missile technologies (cruise) and the space program (ballistic).

In Equestria, robotics and energy weapons were the first priorities and the closest to existing tech. The power armor took ten years of research and development even with the boost from the robotics field, and still relied on magic just to move. Making the jump from what we've seen to a ballistic missile would take decades of dedicated work in a field that zebras would be uncomfortable at best in.

"Cruise/Balistic"

I said before and I'll say again:
Zebra Shagohod
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs31/f/2008/225/c/9/The_Shagohod_by_KaitoKiddo1412.jpg
Match with the tech level and combat tactics of the zebras.
A stationary launcher would be a easy target to the pegasuses.

That does look to fit, doesn't it... this would be one of those monstrous zebra war machines that AM rifles and the like were invented because of.

since the armor has EFS, you quickly see the problems of trying to get your scouts in close enough to find and target one of the Cloud cities.

Zebras can evade EFS easy. They invented invisibility.

[Cptadder]

"Cruise/Balistic"

I said before and I'll say again:
Zebra Shagohod
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs31/f/2008/225/c/9/The_Shagohod_by_KaitoKiddo1412.jpg
Match with the tech level and combat tactics of the zebras.
A stationary launcher would be a easy target to the pegasuses.

A nice idea, but again, the problem is volume. As for a stationary launcher being an easy target, that's tackled by one: having air defense anyway and two: lots and lots of decoys.

Thus problem of all the super tanks is that if you make it to big or to impressive it becomes a tactical target and your super armored nuke launcher just gets... nuked. And if you make it nuke resistant it's no longer mobile.

Ballistic missiles told to target cloud cites could still have a pretty wide coverage area, I think. The FR's don't have the view that ballistic missiles would have, though, so for suitably sure targeting they (hopefully) need planted beacons or ground observers.

Ballistics can't re-target after the boost phase, they are aimed and set by the time they are at their height. As for ground beacons you can aim city targeted cruise missiles by dead reckoning. You just need to know where your launcher is, how far away the missile is from target. You only need two or three major landmarks for the missile to get mid course corrections. In fact V2's were aimed by exactly this method for some time.

You could put the capsules on mobile launchers, sure, but I don't know where you'd find room to move around at least a thousand or so of them. (Though mobile launchers would allow cutbacks on the number of decoy capsules, I suppose.)

Decoy's only need be good enough to be Decoys. And you do it the same way the Germans did, underground facilities in the woods or the way the Soviets did, shear volume and miles and miles of railyards. Since the Zebras have the coal and the steel I could easily seen thousands of miles of siding, mainlines and switchbacks giving you plenty of room for traincars that look like traincars but pull a few straps and the tent poles and fabric covering fall away and you got a stack of bombs with a launcher car, or a disposable one shot launcher platform.

It was three years, according to my information, but yeah. And expanding on your second point: we had a few close passes with ballistic missile test launches during the Cold War, if I remember correctly; during an actual hot war, testing ballistic missiles would risk Equestria, which, of course, already had a fully functional WMD system, mistaking it for an attack and retaliating.

See here's a big thing, depending on geographic setup it makes testing missiles widely dangerous is just alarming. For example America can't toss anything into space without going over Russia at some point. Likewise the Russians. We are just to big and missiles need way to much time to hit orbit and pass over to much landmass to avoid crossing over anything as all tests look like missiles crossing the Arctic bearing down on American or Russian heads. So depending on Geography Celestia 1 should have been melting down Zebrastain after the first launch or whenever the first launch was.

Also was it really three years from the megaspells being handed to the Zebras (Not Megaspell first usage in the mass healing spell) to end of the world?

[Ketchup]

I"m gonna get back to reading it, too.

Read my child............ READ

Considering the chapters released are on average 30k words each(210000 words total, 7 chapters), it'll take me a while to read it. I just read chapter 3 with no idea what is going on, so...
I lost my place, so I'll probably start over.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, and the helium shortage...

I don't see why everybody wants to use helium for everything. There are a few applications where you need an ultralight noble gas, but not many and almost everything that they use it for these days could be done better by hydrogen. Lighter, cheaper, can be made by just running a current through water, is actually containable in the long term (helium has the smallest molecule ever, allowing it to fit through the gaps in whatever container you use), and as an added bonus, highly flammable! Everybody wins!

Helium is still extremely valuable as a coolant. The SABRE engine, to name just one example, uses it.

Ballistics can't re-target after the boost phase, they are aimed and set by the time they are at their height.

Sure they can, to an extent. That's how MIRV works.

As for ground beacons you can aim city targeted cruise missiles by dead reckoning. You just need to know where your launcher is, how far away the missile is from target. You only need two or three major landmarks for the missile to get mid course corrections. In fact V2's were aimed by exactly this method for some time.

Yes, but it's much more difficult if the cities can move.
(Yes, it is problematic, but unless we want to throw FoE out the window, we have to have the cloudcover preventing missile hits on pegasi but not surface structures due to navigation interference.)

You could put the capsules on mobile launchers, sure, but I don't know where you'd find room to move around at least a thousand or so of them. (Though mobile launchers would allow cutbacks on the number of decoy capsules, I suppose.)

Decoy's only need be good enough to be Decoys. And you do it the same way the Germans did, underground facilities in the woods or the way the Soviets did, shear volume and miles and miles of railyards. Since the Zebras have the coal and the steel I could easily seen thousands of miles of siding, mainlines and switchbacks giving you plenty of room for traincars that look like traincars but pull a few straps and the tent poles and fabric covering fall away and you got a stack of bombs with a launcher car, or a disposable one shot launcher platform.

Might work, but a launch would be significantly slower and the launchers less hardened, I think. The delay wouldn't matter so much against a missile-armed opponent, but against Equestria, I don't think that it's acceptable.

It was three years, according to my information, but yeah. And expanding on your second point: we had a few close passes with ballistic missile test launches during the Cold War, if I remember correctly; during an actual hot war, testing ballistic missiles would risk Equestria, which, of course, already had a fully functional WMD system, mistaking it for an attack and retaliating.

See here's a big thing, depending on geographic setup it makes testing missiles widely dangerous is just alarming. For example America can't toss anything into space without going over Russia at some point. Likewise the Russians. We are just to big and missiles need way to much time to hit orbit and pass over to much landmass to avoid crossing over anything as all tests look like missiles crossing the Arctic bearing down on American or Russian heads. So depending on Geography Celestia 1 should have been melting down Zebrastain after the first launch or whenever the first launch was.

Also was it really three years from the megaspells being handed to the Zebras (Not Megaspell first usage in the mass healing spell) to end of the world?

According to the timeline on the wiki, yes. It's not as good a source as I'd like, granted, but it's the best one I have.

[Paper Airplane]

@Waffle: (Rapists)

It was normally implied that Raiders were rapists, but Kkat normally just alluded to it. I don't think Kkat even used the word "rape" more than 10 times. The story normally avoided that subject.

Anyway, I started a stupid argument. "Women's equality as rapists." Lol.

[Ketchup]

For MNS, can someone tell me the chapter number of when Murky fights in the arena?

[Cptadder]

For MNS, can someone tell me the chapter number of when Murky fights in the arena?

As to that

Spoiler:

And speaking of MNS in general

Spoiler:

[Cptadder]

Sure they can, to an extent. That's how MIRV works.

Check your ICBM phases, MIRV's detach before the apogee or right after, once missiles hit terminal they have to be on targeted because at over seven kilometers a second you only get roughly one hundred and forty seconds to three hundred seconds between the mid phase and impact depending on the ICBM. Lots of fun info I picked up talking with those who's job involved targeting those things for real.

(Yes, it is problematic, but unless we want to throw FoE out the window, we have to have the cloudcover preventing missile hits on pegasi but not surface structures due to navigation interference.)

Was there anything left to launch after the surprise attack? Remember Celestia one dropped the light of judgement on entire sections of the Zebra home world for some time before the Pegasus closed the sky. After that was there anyone left to launch anything?

You could put the capsules on mobile launchers, sure, but I don't know where you'd find room to move around at least a thousand or so of them. (Though mobile launchers would allow cutbacks on the number of decoy capsules, I suppose.)

Decoy's only need be good enough to be Decoys. And you do it the same way the Germans did, underground facilities in the woods or the way the Soviets did, shear volume and miles and miles of railyards. Since the Zebras have the coal and the steel I could easily seen thousands of miles of siding, mainlines and switchbacks giving you plenty of room for traincars that look like traincars but pull a few straps and the tent poles and fabric covering fall away and you got a stack of bombs with a launcher car, or a disposable one shot launcher platform.

Might work, but a launch would be significantly slower and the launchers less hardened, I think. The delay wouldn't matter so much against a missile-armed opponent, but against Equestria, I don't think that it's acceptable.

Also was it really three years from the megaspells being handed to the Zebras (Not Megaspell first usage in the mass healing spell) to end of the world?

According to the timeline on the wiki, yes. It's not as good a source as I'd like, granted, but it's the best one I have.
[/quote]
I've got to confirm this one way or another but if it was three years that's time for an ICBM test and plenty for cruise megaspells.

[CamoBadger]

We have power armor Well not armor but it is power

That is the stupidest...
If you ever see me wearing one of these, please, for the love of celestia, kill me.

[O. Hinds]

Sure they can, to an extent. That's how MIRV works.

Check your ICBM phases, MIRV's detach before the apogee or right after, once missiles hit terminal they have to be on targeted because at over seven kilometers a second you only get roughly one hundred and forty seconds to three hundred seconds between the mid phase and impact depending on the ICBM. Lots of fun info I picked up talking with those who's job involved targeting those things for real.

Ooh, lucky you. Hm... Yes, I thought that the warheads were put on target later in the arc. I think that one probably stil l could put maneuvering systems on the reentry vehicles themselves, though; no one bothered in real life because a strategic missile armed with a modern thermonuclear warhead doesn't really need the extra maneuverability.

(Yes, it is problematic, but unless we want to throw FoE out the window, we have to have the cloudcover preventing missile hits on pegasi but not surface structures due to navigation interference.)

Was there anything left to launch after the surprise attack? Remember Celestia one dropped the light of judgement on entire sections of the Zebra home world for some time before the Pegasus closed the sky. After that was there anyone left to launch anything?

Certainly, but Celestia One couldn't target all of them at once.
See, here's the thing: the missiles had to be capable of extremely rapid launches to be a working second strike weapon (slow enough launches would render them incapable of being a reliable first strike weapon, but I don't think that your proposals would be that slow) due to the speed with which Equestrian megaspells can act. This is important for two reasons. One, the Zebras need an actual working second-strike weapons system for successful MAD. Two, if Equestria found out that the Zebras were knowingly amassing an arsenal of strategic, targeted-at-civilians balefire missiles that would only be useful in a first strike...

You could put the capsules on mobile launchers, sure, but I don't know where you'd find room to move around at least a thousand or so of them. (Though mobile launchers would allow cutbacks on the number of decoy capsules, I suppose.)

Decoy's only need be good enough to be Decoys. And you do it the same way the Germans did, underground facilities in the woods or the way the Soviets did, shear volume and miles and miles of railyards. Since the Zebras have the coal and the steel I could easily seen thousands of miles of siding, mainlines and switchbacks giving you plenty of room for traincars that look like traincars but pull a few straps and the tent poles and fabric covering fall away and you got a stack of bombs with a launcher car, or a disposable one shot launcher platform.

Might work, but a launch would be significantly slower and the launchers less hardened, I think. The delay wouldn't matter so much against a missile-armed opponent, but against Equestria, I don't think that it's acceptable.

Also was it really three years from the megaspells being handed to the Zebras (Not Megaspell first usage in the mass healing spell) to end of the world?

According to the timeline on the wiki, yes. It's not as good a source as I'd like, granted, but it's the best one I have.

I've got to confirm this one way or another but if it was three years that's time for an ICBM test and plenty for cruise megaspells.

Mind, that's three years to go from "If we can make bombs out of these, find a way to get them from here to there" to the destruction of Equestria. That three years includes not just the development and testing of the missile systems but the development of the balefire megaspells and, crucially, the mass manufacture and deployment of the missiles.

[jacky2734]

We have power armor Well not armor but it is power

That is the stupidest...
If you ever see me wearing one of these, please, for the love of celestia, kill me.

The one shown in that article was an early prototype, They had one on Future Weapons that was far less bulky and made of Carbon fiber, although they were just for the legs and were still having issues with the power source, I think. It's been a few years.

[Ketchup]

For MNS, can someone tell me the chapter number of when Murky fights in the arena?

As to that

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[CamoBadger]

We have power armor Well not armor but it is power

That is the stupidest...
If you ever see me wearing one of these, please, for the love of celestia, kill me.

The one shown in that article was an early prototype, They had one on Future Weapons that was far less bulky and made of Carbon fiber, although they were just for the legs and were still having issues with the power source, I think. It's been a few years.

the main thing I find sad is that in the picture there, that soldier is carrying...maybe 40 pounds in that bag? As a medic all of my gear and armor is almost triple that, and I don't whine for a pair of robot legs. So again, if I'm ever wearing it, kill me, because obviously I've lost all sense of being a soldier.

[CamoBadger]

For MNS, can someone tell me the chapter number of when Murky fights in the arena?

As to that

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Cptadder]

MNS

Spoiler:

Well as to that

Spoiler:

[CamoBadger]

MNS

Spoiler:

Well as to that

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Ketchup]

For MNS, can someone tell me the chapter number of when Murky fights in the arena?

As to that

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Oh wow. I thought I read more than the first chapter. Oh well.

[RoboRed]

Considering the chapters released are on average 30k words each(210000 words total, 7 chapters), it'll take me a while to read it. I just read chapter 3 with no idea what is going on, so...
I lost my place, so I'll probably start over.

Waitwaitwait...the average length is THAT long? Holy buckets, no wonder there aren't many chapters in the index...

[Kippershy]

(Styg) I can use it as evidence for being self centred in sex ;P Since as said, he got off 4+ times and BJ once. And he as said, didn't do anything at all to make her get off. I can forgive him the first 1-2 times, but to keep doing it again and again? Like we've discussed, I'd really want to know how bad sex ed the batponies seem to have, or if he really is that easily distracted/narrow minded at sex. And I am too woozy to make proper things now. But yeah, I've went on about that one a bit much, you know my PoV on it. Tbh, I have to say I was a bit surprised he even managed to get her off at the third time, (unless she "helped herself) seeing how her erection probably went limp in between go's. Then again, they never really stated how long it was between each go, just that he gave her a few seconds of oral, then went full "simple" penetration. And I know there's females that are apparently sensitive enough to get off on that alone, but again, then we are going with that damn "for just that occasion" or "for plot convince". (that, or it's just me that less sensitive.)

@Kipper: Just random, but I am unsure: Did we conclude our TMI chit-chat, or did I manage to miss your reply?

I think for once, I actually had nothing more to say for now.

GOD HELP US ALL.
xD

Seriously though, yeah, I got nothin' now.
I've just been so tired and preoccupied as of late that I just ain't got the ability to think straight.


Which is a damn shame 'cos I do enjoy our discussions [you]


On the matter of Styg - I say we should forgive him. He does make BJ have an orgasm on the fourth go, and she does encourage him to keep at it over and over (and consider it a fifth/sixth/more times) and he was a virgin.
Though you're right to some extent - he could've gotten off and tried to give her a good eatin'. but then I reckon if Somber had gone into such detail someone would've complained about the amount of detail into the pony-sex, rather then just "we did it three more times, and I had a 'gasm on the fourth/last of them"

[Aonee]

Considering the chapters released are on average 30k words each(210000 words total, 7 chapters), it'll take me a while to read it. I just read chapter 3 with no idea what is going on, so...
I lost my place, so I'll probably start over.

Waitwaitwait...the average length is THAT long? Holy buckets, no wonder there aren't many chapters in the index...

Oh yea. We're talking Somber and Kkat length chapters here, it ain't no flimsy 1.2k chapters.

[RoboRed]

OFF TOPIC MESSAGE: Kipp, check your PM inbox.

[CamoBadger]

On the matter of Styg - I say we should forgive him. He does make BJ have an orgasm on the fourth go, and she does encourage him to keep at it over and over (and consider it a fifth/sixth/more times) and he was a virgin.
Though you're right to some extent - he could've gotten off and tried to give her a good eatin'. but then I reckon if Somber had gone into such detail someone would've complained about the amount of detail into the pony-sex, rather then just "we did it three more times, and I had a 'gasm on the fourth/last of them"

Laughing
Laughing
"give her a good eatin'." no comment
Laughing
Laughing
Still laughing

[RoboRed]

Waitwaitwait...the average length is THAT long? Holy buckets, no wonder there aren't many chapters in the index...

Oh yea. We're talking Somber and Kkat length chapters here, it ain't no flimsy 1.2k chapters.

Yikes...this one's gonna be a doozy...

[RoboRed]

Okay...now I'm gonna have to read it just to get through all these spoiler boxes that pique my curiosity.

[Cptadder]

Spoiler:

Well as to that spoiler, spoiler

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

You missed my joke

Spoiler:

Well about agility...

Spoiler:

And on an unrelated note we now have had half a page of nothing but spoiler posts. Back on topic...

Question:Has anyone to date ever gone back through and counted in Fallout Equestria or Project Horizons a body count? Number of raiders killed, number of bullets taken, number of healing potions taken, ect ect. Always wondered since Blackjack and Littlepip both think about it constantly who has the higher body count (Not counting megaspell or hand held Anti-matter pistol named Folly)

[CamoBadger]

You missed my joke

Spoiler:

Oh gawd, I totally missed that
Sorry, I thought it was literal considering he probably should have even if you weren't joking. But good joke, now that I know what you were saying it's quite funny

[O. Hinds]

Cptadder, did you miss my last post or just not have anything to say in reply? The conversation seemed like it ended rather abruptly.

[Ketchup]

Question:Has anyone to date ever gone back through and counted in Fallout Equestria or Project Horizons a body count? Number of raiders killed, number of bullets taken, number of healing potions taken, ect ect. Always wondered since Blackjack and Littlepip both think about it constantly who has the higher body count (Not counting megaspell or hand held Anti-matter pistol named Folly).

I mentioned this earlier, and I'd love to do it if I could put myself through reading 1.5~million words. Again. But I'd bet that Blackjack has a higher body count in ponies, but Lil'Pip probably has more creatures.

[OneMoreDaySK]

@body count
Don't think that's possible. First off for FO:E y'have to consider Littlepip's nuke. For Project Horizons, there's the destruction of the Celestia. That throws a huge unknowns into the count.

[Ketchup]

@body count
Don't think that's possible. First off for FO:E y'have to consider Littlepip's nuke. For Project Horizons, there's the destruction of the Celestia. That throws a huge unknowns into the count.

Note the "not counting" part. Direct deaths, not collateral, would be much easier.

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