Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Sindri]

Other than that, read what I said before about hope. If it was just him being beaten constantly I would agree that it would be boring. But he wants something more now. For the first time in his life, and he's figuring out how to get it.
He wants love, friendship, life and freedom. Not in those words, he doesn't even understand entirely that's what he wants, he's so broken. He never had dreams before but now he is and he is willing to risk all of what little he has to achieve them. He is not lucky, he is not powerful, but he wants so badly and is struggling against his own mind, body and destiny (his cutie mark is shackles, after all) to get it.

It's the story about a pony with, arguably, LESS than nothing dreaming for the first time in his life and risking it all to truly live. It is 100% a personal journey, at least as far as I have read. That is, in a small part, what is so endearing about it.

Much better! This is now in the top dozen or so on my long list of things to get around to reading eventually.

[CamoBadger]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

And to be fair Sindri (about the Wangst and Gorn thing), you can say that about almost any 'dark' story ever written in this fandom.

[Sindri]

to be fair Sindri (about the Wangst and Gorn thing), you can say that about almost any 'dark' story ever written in this fandom.

All those tropes are what happens when somebody tries to do darkness and screws up. They're boring, annoying, and the reason that there's such a huge bias against stories with a grimdark tag; everyone assumes that they're going to be pointless gornfests. The good FoE stories are the ones that don't fall in any of these pits.

[CamoBadger]

to be fair Sindri (about the Wangst and Gorn thing), you can say that about almost any 'dark' story ever written in this fandom.

All those tropes are what happens when somebody tries to do darkness and screws up. They're boring, annoying, and the reason that there's such a huge bias against stories with a grimdark tag; everyone assumes that they're going to be pointless gornfests. The good FoE stories are the ones that don't fall in any of these pits.

I could point out spots in any FoE story that does fall into these pits (except maybe Pink Eyes...wait, nevermind, thought of one)

[O. Hinds]

Also, does anyone know what
"wine: Unhandled page fault on read access to 0x00000000 at address 0xaddf7b (thread 003b), starting debugger...
XIO: fatal IO error 35 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":3082"
after 45 requests (45 known processed) with 1 events remaining."
means and how it might be fixed?

Well, from what I can tell, it tried to access something at a memory address, but it wasn't there because of some error preventing it from being inputted from a server with port :3082. Oh, and it tried accessing said server 45 times.

I haven't a damn clue how to fix it, though, sorry.

Well, thank you for the interpretation, at least. My only "real" experience with coding is one semester of MATLAB.

[RoboRed]

I was going for a degree in computer science, but I'm not really sure I want it anymore. Still, I've remembered a thing or two. Eh heh heh... :mybad:

[SilentCarto]

- Oh, I could have sworn he did at least in a small part. I remembered Glory's explanation of the Enclave encouraging homosexuality in light of the limited resources, but I couldn't remember how much of that was strictly PH material.

Yeah, it came very late in FOE -- Chapter 43, just before they make their move to board the Overcast.

Ah, I do need to add MN7 to my reading queue, and get around to reading Anywhere But Here, Broken Bonds... Pink Eyes, and Wings.
And like 20 other non-FoE stories.

Yeah, same here. But... only twenty?
I really need to get on board with Heroes... once I catch up on This Platinum Crown...

[SilentCarto]

That's actually a good idea for a dark AU fic: An eternal war behind the scenes of Utopia. I'm not sure how believable blaming the war for gender inequality would be, but it could work, if you really like War Stallions.

So you're suggesting crossing over FiM with Vandread? Sweetie Belle

He never had dreams before but now he is and he is willing to risk all of what little he has to achieve them. He is not lucky, he is not powerful, but he wants so badly and is struggling against his own mind, body and destiny (his cutie mark is shackles, after all) to get it.
It's the story about a pony with, arguably, LESS than nothing dreaming for the first time in his life and risking it all to truly live. It is 100% a personal journey, at least as far as I have read. That is, in a small part, what is so endearing about it.

Sold!

[WavemasterRyx]

- Oh, I could have sworn he did at least in a small part. I remembered Glory's explanation of the Enclave encouraging homosexuality in light of the limited resources, but I couldn't remember how much of that was strictly PH material.

Yeah, it came very late in FOE -- Chapter 43, just before they make their move to board the Overcast.

Ah, I do need to add MN7 to my reading queue, and get around to reading Anywhere But Here, Broken Bonds... Pink Eyes, and Wings.
And like 20 other non-FoE stories.

Yeah, same here. But... only twenty?
I really need to get on board with Heroes... once I catch up on This Platinum Crown...

- Ah, I could only remember the instance of them talking about Enclave politics after Ditzy's miracle. I really need to go back and re-read FoE some time. I suppose starting it on the 1 year anniversary of first reading the story wouldn't be a bad idea.
- Well... 20 is a low estimate of "MVP" priority stories on my queue. Below that, there's ... probably close to 60 "top-tier", and then 100+ "unsorted".
Or I could just draw more Boo.

[RoboRed]

Go draw some more Boo. It's probably a lot simpler. And it makes all of us happy.

Or some more Waves. Because adorable blue pegasus with glasses.

[WavemasterRyx]

@RoboRed and swicked

*giggles* Okay, well seems like a unanimous vote then. More Boo it is.

[Cptadder]

Hmm all this posting about side stories, say anyone want to put up their reading lists. Looking for recommendations obviously to add to this short list.

I have
Project Horizons (Obviously)
FOE:Heroes
FOE:Misfits

Not read any of the others, still working my way through the various side stories, there's no real easy groupings. I went through Pink Eyes and kinda liked it but the main character got my nerves around the twelve chapter when we met the big bad of Pink Eyes and kept reading only because by the time I started reading it was already finished and stories make wonderful time wasters on planes.

[O. Hinds]

Hmm all this posting about side stories, say anyone want to put up their reading lists. Looking for recommendations obviously to add to this short list.

I have
Project Horizons (Obviously)
FOE:Heroes
FOE:Misfits

Not read any of the others, still working my way through the various side stories, there's no real easy groupings. I went through Pink Eyes and kinda liked it but the main character got my nerves around the twelve chapter when we met the big bad of Pink Eyes and kept reading only because by the time I started reading it was already finished and stories make wonderful time wasters on planes.

My list:
Murky Number Seven (the only one on this list not, to my knowledge, on FIMFiction)
The Ditzy Doo Chronicles
Anywhere but Here (only two chapters so far, but it seems to me to be a good story)
Morality of Property
The Daily Unlife
Wings You've Earned (a good story and actual PH fanfiction… but Chapter 3 went up back in February and FIMFiction says that the author's not been to the site in eleven weeks)
Duel (a good story written by Pacce… but it has one chapter so far, and that went up on February 7th)

By the way, the mention of Wings You've Earned has reminded me: whatever happened to http://foechapel.tumblr.com/ ? I've been waiting for an update for months and months...

[O. Hinds]

By the way, any thoughts on this?

"image":

I knocked it together the other day while... actually, I don't remember what I was doing when I started, but I think I did most of the work while watching Torchwood.

Anyway, it's meant to the a skyscraper in Roam, the world's would-be tallest building. The one on the right is the building as designed. The one on the left is what actually got built; when the war started to really get going, labor and materials were routed elsewhere, and when it became clear that the war would be going on for a while, the incomplete structure was capped off with a quartet of rotodyne pads and the already-assembled antenna.

[jacky2734]

So, uh, hows the next chapter coming?

[O. Hinds]

So, uh, hows the next chapter coming?

I've gotten no news yet.

[jacky2734]

Okay.

[Meleagridis]

reading lists

That we are reading at present? That would be Project Horizons, Mendacity, and technically Wings (though I stopped reading when I caught up to the updates and haven't caught up in forever). The list for what is yet to be read is significantly longer, of course.

And I'd love to offer some commentary on that tower, but architecture is so far from my forte you would need an entirely separate mental map. I will offer, however, that I prefer the idea of shoddy construction and materials to stretch the tower as much as possible to claim the title of 'tallest building' while endangering the lives of people around it. Why can't zebras do stupid, prideful things too? /tired

[O. Hinds]

reading lists

That we are reading at present? That would be Project Horizons, Mendacity, and technically Wings (though I stopped reading when I caught up to the updates and haven't caught up in forever). The list for what is yet to be read is significantly longer, of course.

Wait, we were to include non-FoE fics? Well, I'm following Mendacity too, and... lots of others. You could look at my Favorites list on FIMFiction to get most of the list, I think.

And I'd love to offer some commentary on that tower, but architecture is so far from my forte you would need an entirely separate mental map. I will offer, however, that I prefer the idea of shoddy construction and materials to stretch the tower as much as possible to claim the title of 'tallest building' while endangering the lives of people around it. Why can't zebras do stupid, prideful things too? /tired

PAH! And what sort of a testament to Zebra power and prosperity would a disaster waiting to happen be, I ask you?

[O. Hinds]

By the way, could we take a tally of the supporters of the Cruise Exclusive and Mixture/Ballistic Exclusive PHCC members? I'm worried about what Somber will decide to do... you know that she wanted the missile stuck in Hightower to be based on a Minuteman?! All the Minuteman missiles were three-stage, and all but the early Minuteman-Is were MIRVed. Somber claimed that fudging would work, but... no. I'm hoping that I'll be able to at least convince her to use some single-stage non-MIRVed design, but that still would have a host of problems (What is the point of filing the sky with clouds to protect the pegasus settlements if the warheads are falling down from space?). I did mention that all of the requirements she's given me (not too many so far, though...) would be easily met by the SACII, which has the benefit of being readymade and nitpickiness-tolerance-tested by a pair of enthusiastic physics/engineering students, but...

On a separate but related target, I've been speculating on the best way to dig the 3x3x15m (lxwxd) pits for the launchers. It would probably vary with the exact characteristics of the ground, but I'm currently trying to decide between specialized robots (design(s) unfinalized) and a rather interesting species related to diamond dogs (design also unfinalized, though I've a better idea of them than of the robots), possibly with the assistance of domesticated molerats. Or some combination, perhaps?

[Guest]

By the way, could we take a tally of the supporters of the Cruise Exclusive and Mixture/Ballistic Exclusive PHCC members? I'm worried about what Somber will decide to do... you know that she wanted the missile stuck in Hightower to be based on a Minuteman?! All the Minuteman missiles were three-stage, and all but the early Minuteman-Is were MIRVed. Somber claimed that fudging would work, but... no. I'm hoping that I'll be able to at least convince her to use some single-stage non-MIRVed design, but that still would have a host of problems (What is the point of filing the sky with clouds to protect the pegasus settlements if the warheads are falling down from space?). I did mention that all of the requirements she's given me (not too many so far, though...) would be easily met by the SACII, which has the benefit of being readymade and nitpickiness-tolerance-tested by a pair of enthusiastic physics/engineering students, but...

On a separate but related target, I've been speculating on the best way to dig the 3x3x15m (lxwxd) pits for the launchers. It would probably vary with the exact characteristics of the ground, but I'm currently trying to decide between specialized robots (design(s) unfinalized) and a rather interesting species related to diamond dogs (design also unfinalized, though I've a better idea of them than of the robots), possibly with the assistance of domesticated molerats. Or some combination, perhaps?

Well, we know that by the end the zebra robots were enough of a problem to necessitate the anti-machine rifle, right? And a robot specifically for digging out holes seems easy-peasy compared to an automated combat 'bot. Heck, you could even have a robot controlling the launchers, and have it have an apparatus to dig its own holes lickety-split. (All that said, I have like... zero knowledge on robotics. Well, almost zero. Anyway, point is, I'm operating on "rule of it-stands-to-reason" rather than practical knowledge, so, y'know... my words, grain of salt, take 'em both together.)

As for cruise versus ballistic... I know what both of those words mean! And... that's pretty much it! So I've got no real opinion.

[Kippershy]

By the way, could we take a tally of the supporters of the Cruise Exclusive and Mixture/Ballistic Exclusive PHCC members? I'm worried about what Somber will decide to do... you know that she wanted the missile stuck in Hightower to be based on a Minuteman?! All the Minuteman missiles were three-stage, and all but the early Minuteman-Is were MIRVed. Somber claimed that fudging would work, but... no. I'm hoping that I'll be able to at least convince her to use some single-stage non-MIRVed design, but that still would have a host of problems (What is the point of filing the sky with clouds to protect the pegasus settlements if the warheads are falling down from space?). I did mention that all of the requirements she's given me (not too many so far, though...) would be easily met by the SACII, which has the benefit of being readymade and nitpickiness-tolerance-tested by a pair of enthusiastic physics/engineering students, but...

On a separate but related target, I've been speculating on the best way to dig the 3x3x15m (lxwxd) pits for the launchers. It would probably vary with the exact characteristics of the ground, but I'm currently trying to decide between specialized robots (design(s) unfinalized) and a rather interesting species related to diamond dogs (design also unfinalized, though I've a better idea of them than of the robots), possibly with the assistance of domesticated molerats. Or some combination, perhaps?

(I had to go through 800 images to find that.)

[O. Hinds]

Heck, you could even have a robot controlling the launchers, and have it have an apparatus to dig its own holes lickety-split.

Interesting idea; I suppose that having a mobile subterranean control robot would have advantages…
The automated triggering of firing reminds me too much of the Soviet Doomsday Ship, but… for highest-alert, it sounds like not a bad idea! I'm not sure what metrics it would use for determining that Equestria was firing, but I assume that such metrics exist

As for cruise versus ballistic... I know what both of those words mean! And... that's pretty much it!

A cruise missile flies to its target like an airplane; the V-1 might be the most famous example.
A ballistic missile on the strategic scale is basically a space rocket that doesn't enter a stable orbit; it goes up, the fuel runs out, and the payload falls down and goes boom. The V-2 was the first strategic ballistic missile (and not a very good one).

Incidentally, are you at all familiar with the V-3? It's not nearly so famous as the other two Vergeltungswaffen designs, possibly because it was destroyed before it became operational, but I believe that it's thought that it would have worked quite well if completed (well, for a given value of "well"; the thing could flatten London, but making any significant change to what the guns were aimed at would have required entirely rebuilding them). Interestingly, I ended up developing the staged-gun concept independently for another project of mine.

(I had to go through 800 images to find that.)

...?
I am confused. This means... what?

[O. Hinds]

Okay, what do you lot think of this two-robot system?
Both robots are built on the same platform and designed to be flown in by rotodyne, though the cement may need to be flown in separately. Robot #1 is equipped with scoop arms for soft-material digging and the removal of rock debris and hydraulic hammer and explosive-planting-and-borehole-drilling arms for getting through rock. It digs a rough and larger-than-necessary hole, then moves on to dig another one while Robot #2 moves in. Robot #2 is equipped with suction-hose arms to clear water seeping in, scoop arms for making use of the materials left by Robot #1, form assembly arms, concrete-pouring arms, and concrete-planing arms making use of enchantments to quickly cure the base cement. Robot #2 lays a level base of concrete at the appropriate depth, assembles on top of it a frame of light, cheap, stamped-metal panels, and then fills in the area around the frame with concrete and excavation rubble. The frame ensures that the hole stays in the proper shape while the capsule is being flown in and also includes grooves to allow any fluids under the capsule to flow out as it's lowered.

[Ketchup]

I always thought of the balefire missiles of the basic, impact-detonated, cruise variety. Like the Tomahawk, and Scud(IIRC). There isn't much need for them to be a multi-warhead design. It hasn't been referred to by Kkat AFAIK.

...And it is currently 5 in the morning. That'll teach me for going to bed before 11.

[Guest]

Words! Interesting words!

I think the "NO LOLWUTS" was used in place of a normal "lolwut" pear, because Kipper was having difficulty understanding the technical nature of your earlier post.


Thanks for the info on missile systems - ya never know when something like that'll come in handy. Well... sometimes you might know, actually. If you're thinking about intercontinental explosive strikes, for instance, you'd know that knowledge like that'd come in handy.

As for the robot systems, I'd personally encourage you to think with magic even more - getting to twist the laws of physics as humans know them could allow some interesting stuff. For instance, instead of water suction, why not have some sort of freezing talisman? I'm pretty sure they used stuff like that for the Big Dig in Boston (not talismans, obviously)... I think it also helped with the drilling or something. Here's a pdf: Link! It's cool stuff (pun unintended) even if it might not be ideal for the zebra's purposes.

[Guest]

This isn't related, but while I was out yesterday I stopped by a second hand bookstore and picked up some disc world books. Unfortunately they didn't have The Colour of Magic, So I decided to pick up what they did have. Small Gods, Soul music, and The Light Fantastic. Is it important to read these books in order?

[O. Hinds]

I always thought of the balefire missiles of the basic, impact-detonated, cruise variety. Like the Tomahawk, and Scud(IIRC). There isn't much need for them to be a multi-warhead design. It hasn't been referred to by Kkat AFAIK.

...And it is currently 5 in the morning. That'll teach me for going to bed before 11.

CRUISE. WE HAVE ANOTHER SUPPORTER OF CRUISE. (Re multiple warheads, it is a potential loadout for SACIIs, but multiple independent-trajectory warheads aren't supported, no. I think that, in your tired state, you got a bit confused...)

Words! Interesting words!

I think the "NO LOLWUTS" was used in place of a normal "lolwut" pear, because Kipper was having difficulty understanding the technical nature of your earlier post.

Ah, thank you.

Thanks for the info on missile systems - ya never know when something like that'll come in handy. Well... sometimes you might know, actually. If you're thinking about intercontinental explosive strikes, for instance, you'd know that knowledge like that'd come in handy.

You're welcome.

As for the robot systems, I'd personally encourage you to think with magic even more - getting to twist the laws of physics as humans know them could allow some interesting stuff. For instance, instead of water suction, why not have some sort of freezing talisman? I'm pretty sure they used stuff like that for the Big Dig in Boston (not talismans, obviously)... I think it also helped with the drilling or something. Here's a pdf: Link! It's cool stuff (pun unintended) even if it might not be ideal for the zebra's purposes.

Hey, thanks! Those might be a good idea...
There is a balance to strike, though; most talismans require gems, and the Zebra gem supply was extremely limited. Earthlike or alchemy-based engineering is generally much cheaper and more widely reproducible.

This isn't related, but while I was out yesterday I stopped by a second hand bookstore and picked up some disc world books. Unfortunately they didn't have The Colour of Magic, So I decided to pick up what they did have. Small Gods, Soul music, and The Light Fantastic. Is it important to read these books in order?

The first two, no; there are continuity nods and overarching bits, but I'd say that any Discworld book except the The Light Fantastic is entirely capable of standing on its own (The Light Fantastic one can probably still manage it, but it's the only direct, starts-exactly-where-the-last-one-left-off sequel in the series; I believe that your experience may be reduced if you read it before its predecessor).

[Guest]

The first two, no; there are continuity nods and overarching bits, but I'd say that any Discworld book except the The Light Fantastic is entirely capable of standing on its own (The Light Fantastic one can probably still manage it, but it's the only direct, starts-exactly-where-the-last-one-left-off sequel in the series; I believe that your experience may be reduced if you read it before its predecessor).

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll go get started on the other two then.

[O. Hinds]

Snipe and I were conversing via email, and this conversation led to a description of why I do not think that the Zebras used ballistic missiles. I thought that I'd repost it here.
"I see several problems with the Zebras using ballistic missile.
First and probably least, superstition (and not, in this setting, wholly unjustified superstition): these are machines, weapons, designed to fly outside the atmosphere.  Exactly how sturdy an obstacle this is is unknown... but we still have "advanced" nations skipping floors 4 and 13...
Second, development difficulty: cruise missile development can borrow heavily from airplane development (look up the Regulus I, for instance).  Ballistic missile development is an entirely different discipline, one that would have to be developed from scratch.  The V-2s were not good weapons, and the Zebras had much less time and much higher requirements to work with.  The SACII is beyond the airplane tech of the day (in large part due to not needing to accommodate a pilot or, beyond the first prototypes, landing or multiple flights), but it was a pretty short jump.  Cruise missiles also would not need to carry oxidizer or remass.
The third difficulty is not exactly within the story, but it is, I think, a pretty sticky point: FoE describes the pegasi as creating the cloud ceiling during the apocalypse to stop any more of their settlements from being targeted.  This was hard enough to explain with cruise missiles; with ballistic missiles, the warheads falling from above would have a clear view of their targets...so why the cloud ceiling?
The fourth difficulty is, like the third, not exactly withing the story: we know that the Zebras used cruise missiles because of the three that Celestia destroyed.  The description seems to indicate that they were already at relatively low altitude over Whitetail Woods, and if they'd been ballistic, the contamination from their destruction would have a much different distribution.  Now, while this difficulty does not rule out the Zebras using a mixture...why would they?  Their cruise missile program clearly was good, and why would the hard-pressed Zebras use the time, resources, and personnel to run a separate, much more difficulty, not really more capable, and possibly unease-generating ballistic missile program?"

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