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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 28 Empty Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by O. Hinds Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:46 am

Icy Shake wrote:Would you like to be able to? I could add, at the least, Somber and the editing team.
Hm, sure. Thanks.

Icy Shake wrote:More on the 72 interview/recent discussion here: I think that I have a philosophical difference with Hinds, in that very often I don't think the specifics of how things work is of particular importance in stories. That's far from never, of course, but the operations only matter to me if they make a difference to what's going on, or if that is what the story is about. For instance, as far as I can tell, the only thing that we really need to know about tanks is that they are self-repairing tanks, with limits. The fuel source and similar technical details, though well-thought out and developed in the Setting thread, are something extraneous to what's going on. Deus runs, and that's what matters. If he runs on magic, or cic, or a compact nuclear reactor or battery doesn't matter unless that will be used to define what he can or cannot do in relation to the rest of the world. Does he need refueling, and if so, where can that be done? Will he cause a nuclear disaster if blown up? What do you need to do to beat him? It's questions like these that define what I think I need to know, and even that can be fudged if what happens feels plausible. Of course, if your genre is hard sci-fi, it's different.
I agree with you about the tank mechanics here. The thing is, how they work determines what logistics they need and is determined by their history, and if you don't know what they need and where they come from, how can you tell that it doesn't impact the story? Or, rather, if you begin with it not affecting the story, how can you know that there's a non-problematic way to make that work unless you have some idea of the mechanics and history?
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Post by Icy Shake Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:37 am

Basically, one of the early passes for me is asking the question, is whatever it would take for this to just work more outlandish/less plausible than other (similarly situated, for example, in a world with Raptors and Thunderheads, do I think a tank plus x, y, and z narratively-convenient features is a stretch) features of the world I've already accepted? In this case, for instance, at least some matter-generation is covered by the water talismans (so any fueling can be hand-waved away) and self-repairing is more believable in a large tank than a cyberpony. Etc. So since I'm pretty sure it can work, and probably in a bunch of different ways, then I don't really care which of them it is. Granted, this is also accentuated by being along for the ride in a vessel that puts everything technical in soft focus through not knowing or caring about any of this (guns excepted) herself. (And that in various cases or at certain times, all that's necessary is that something does what's on the tin. How does the monster of the week work? Eh. It'll be gone in half an hour anyway, hour tops. As long as it's not clearly breaking anything, or could be waved off as unique, stuff can be fudged. How does this thing that's going to be a major focus, stick around, and impact the plot and characters in significant ways while being integrated with them and the major themes or ideas the story's built around work? Now that's something that at least the author should probably have a more definite idea about.)

A lot of it comes down to a gut feeling of whether I think I could come up with something to make it work without adding a bunch of new things to the setting. On that basis, I think that you need to go pretty far in the FoE universe, and more so with the expansions in PH. In a lower-powered setting than wartime Equestria and the zebra nation, some thought might need to be put into the background of things like the tank.

I think a contrasting example is the Steelpony augmentation. For the first 16 chapters at least, only a pretty sketchy concept of how it works was needed. But with them going from pretty much the flavor of the antagonist (that really just needed to explain why he's hard to deal with) to an important component of the main character's arc, things had to get more definite. Or, if Rampage were just a temporary side character, joining up to get Blackjack to the Arena (maybe keeping the amnesia and multiple personalities but cutting some of the angst) and then showing up again from time to time in battles or whatever, then I'd be fine with not knowing why exactly she had the whole regeneration thing and reset to a filly after disintegration. Whatever. It's a Reaper thing; a bunch of them have weird stuff going on. But with her as a major character whose story is built around why she is that way, obviously that needs to be built up.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I differentiate between the story and the things that help the story move along. If something is just part of the latter group, then as long as it doesn't jump out as ridiculous, I'll just accept it and keep focusing on the actual story. Especially when the setting is already fuzzy and stretchy.
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Post by O. Hinds Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:55 am

Hm.  It's sounding like our views are similar in many ways, the greatest difference perhaps being the exact locations of the thresholds of "good enough explanations or stand-ins therefor".


Last edited by O. Hinds on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by LordsServant Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:14 pm

That's a really cool spreadsheet that was posted earlier, but (and correct me if this sounds a touch morbid) wouldn't it be better improved by adding in when/how certain characters died?

Obviously, Blackjack gets to cheat and get a few entries, but knowing how/why/when (or w/e else) certain characters died was half the "fun" (I'm morbid as fuck come to think of it) of the original FoE. Maybe have an additional tag for further details we learn about their deaths?

Example:
Pinkie Pie:

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Post by CD Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:34 pm

What, are we going to play Cluedo: Project Horizons edition?

"It was Blackjack, in the Fluttershy Medical Centre, with a flick of a switch. Mass child murder."
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Post by Icy Shake Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:20 pm

O. Hinds wrote:Hm.  It's sounding like our views are similar in many ways, the greatest difference perhaps being the exact locations of the thresholds of "good enough explanations or stand-ins therefor".
Sounds fair.

LordsServant wrote:That's a really cool spreadsheet that was posted earlier, but (and correct me if this sounds a touch morbid) wouldn't it be better improved by adding in when/how certain characters died?

Obviously, Blackjack gets to cheat and get a few entries, but knowing how/why/when (or w/e else) certain characters died was half the "fun" (I'm morbid as fuck come to think of it) of the original FoE. Maybe have an additional tag for further details we learn about their deaths?

Example:
Pinkie Pie:
I've added chapter and circumstances of death columns, but right now it's just off of memory. If/when I finish more accurate and comprehensive versions, those columns will probably be spoilered.
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Post by Vinylshadow Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:57 am

Yeah, a comprehensive list of who died when, how and where sounds reasonable, at least for prominent characters

RIP, Enclave Soldier TK-664, or whomever

Would make a handy resource for Fo:E writers too
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Post by Blue Heron Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:06 am

And chapters of when they died, for ease of reference.

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Post by ILM126 Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:20 am

O. Hinds wrote:@ILM126:
Welcome to the forum!
Oh, if you're joining that far back, you ought to be aware that this thread tends to drop spoiler marking for a chapter not all that long after its release, so you read here at your own peril until you catch up (unless you don't care about spoilers, of course).
I'm glad that you're enjoying the story so much, though.  :)

Ryx wrote:also there's a typo on 257 B
What do you mean?

Thanks, I'm now just finishing the last chapter in volume 4 now. Trying to catch up (Chapter 1 ~ 72) in 1 month :D

Going well...  Applebloom (Too many late nights...)
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Post by SilentCarto Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:23 pm

swicked wrote:Fine, though Lighthoof's forces were sentient beings and the Brood are not.
I just expect they require more micromanagement and that advanced tactics (like, assuming they were loaded with something similar to pipbuck software, being capable of something more than going to a location and shooting anything hostile along the way) might be well beyond them.
Though maybe I just haven't been paying attention and they have been, on an individual level, as adept as a sentient being can be in ways outside of durability.
Well, they should require no more micromanagement than the robots we see elsewhere in the story. At the spaceport, Amadi didn't have to order anything more specific than, "Brood!  Destroy them all!  Kill everything!  Kill it all! And destroy those rockets!" One would assume they were loaded with battlefield tactics equivalent to any other military robot. When possible, they use effective combined-arms tactics involving unicorn teleports, pegasus air attacks, and reasonably intelligent deployment of heavy weapons like tanks. They don't use cover, but that's understandable -- they have no fear of death, and with effectively unlimited numbers, it doesn't matter if ten of them get shot down charging an opponent if it gets the eleventh guy within stabbing range. And it's not like they just Zerg Rush in and hope at least one gets through; as we saw at Miramare, Stable 99, and the bunker under No Pony's Land, they use tactics specifically designed to get that eleventh guy through. They're not stupid so much as just alien to any being with a sense of self-preservation.

All in all, whenever we see Brood fight up close, they use excellent tactics for getting the job done. It's just that those tactics can be predicted and exploited to create a strategic failure, which shouldn't happen if they were being micromanaged in some way.
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Post by WavemasterRyx Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:23 am

Somber wrote:Also: interview here, if you want to read.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfx7y5v4xxw&feature=youtu.be  Edit: I sound so horrible...
Ah... 32:28... I'm so sorry... I had no right to cause such a disruptive influence, even in part...
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Post by Somber Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:32 am

LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
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Post by O. Hinds Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:41 am

Aye. She's been denying Somber's plans for her since she went from "creepy" to "cute", you may recall from the interview. :)
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Post by Harmony Ltd. Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:30 pm

Somber wrote:LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
In the end, only her will remain atop the ashes.

Maybe Boo is the cause of PH going on for so long? Because once the story is over, she too will end?
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Post by Epsilon Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:21 pm

Harmony Ltd. wrote:
Somber wrote:LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
In the end, only her will remain atop the ashes.

Maybe Boo is the cause of PH going on for so long? Because once the story is over, she too will end?
Are you sure about that? Uh-oh, spin-off incoming!
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Post by WavemasterRyx Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:44 pm

Somber wrote:LOL.  It's okay.  It's a testiment to the power of Boo!
O. Hinds wrote:Aye.  She's been denying Somber's plans for her since she went from "creepy" to "cute", you may recall from the interview.  :)
I just don't want to cause more trouble than I already have...  As long as you think it's worth it, sirs... just please don't let her lose her mane...

Harmony Ltd. wrote:Maybe Boo is the cause of PH going on for so long? Because once the story is over, she too will end?
Well the original plan was to keep drawing her well after PH eventually ended... if I can ever manage to draw her (or anything) again...
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Post by O. Hinds Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:35 pm

Ryx wrote:Well the original plan was to keep drawing her well after PH eventually ended... if I can ever manage to draw her (or anything) again...
Good luck. Sorry. I feel like I ought to be saying something more than that, but I'm not especially good at comforting people.
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Post by Borsuq Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:38 pm

Wow, the discussion has been dead here for a while. Hm...

...

What happened to Jetstream?
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Post by RoboRed Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:09 pm

Good question.
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Post by O. Hinds Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:06 pm

As I recall, that's not been explicitly revealed, but the pieces are there.
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Post by LordsServant Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:07 pm

Borsuq wrote:Wow, the discussion has been dead here for a while. Hm...

...

What happened to Jetstream?

If you want to read into the Happyhorn chapter a bit deeper, I think it's sorta implied that she was used to kick the apocalypse off by providing targeting info for some kind've equestrian megaspell on the Zebra capital.

She was p. off the deep end, and I think it was Garnet (or Onyx?) who sent her to do it as part of the whole "end of the world plan" which also involved partypooper and various other stuff.

If you remember back near the beginning when Blackjack first starts getting stalked by Lacunae, she discovers a museum (she later gets the starmetal sword from here) that was raided literally hours/minutes before the apocalypse. Blackjack thought it was a coincidence due to the fact that there was a lot of spare casings etc etc implying that it would've been cleaned up normally, but later finds out through a recording that it was some kinda blackops team actively communicating about how long they had until the apocalypse during the raid.

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Post by Borsuq Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:30 pm

Well, it's alive!... somewhat...

What I meant to ask if it was ever mentioned how she died. I recall her being send to Zebra lands (which, if my memory serves correct, she did because she went crazy and thought [or somebody told her, like Garnet or Onyx] that the zebra were holding Stonewing captive... of course, she was being used for that purpose of kicking the apocalypse...).

I don't expect her show up in Project Horizon, of course, not now out of the blue (and on the Moon), but... in case a blue and purple pegasus mare were considered to possibly appear in some other fanfic in some fashion... it would be nice to know if it was ever stated in Project Horizon that Jetstream was dead, end of story.
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Post by Somber Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:11 am

She got left behind by the story.  Essentially, she carried a targeting talisman to Roam.  When the newest megaspell was tested, it didn't go off where they thought it did, and instead nuked Roam.  To be fair, Garnet set off doomsday with the belief that Equestria would come out of it alive and intact.  She didn't anticipate that the skies would be closed off and the surface left to rot.  She just wanted to get out of the OIA purge with her tail intact, because she saw the writing on the wall way earlier than others: the liaisons would hang with Goldenblood for crimes against the country.
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Post by RoboRed Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:40 pm

So did Jetstream die off with the nuke?
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Post by SS117 Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:40 pm

I apologize if this was answered way before but just where did Blackjack get the megaspell that destroyed Shadowbolt Tower?

Also, I think it would have been funny to get Velvet's reaction to seeing Whisper for the first time. Or "Oh, hey, you're mom is a tree."
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Post by SilentCarto Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:42 pm

RoboRed wrote:So did Jetstream die off with the nuke?
Given that she thought it was a mass teleport spell, and therefore had ground zero literally in her hooves, I think that would be a solid "yes".

SS117 wrote:I apologize if this was answered way before but just where did Blackjack get the megaspell that destroyed Shadowbolt Tower?
It was the one stored under Hoofington, in the megaspell facility being maintained by those... ghost-zombie things.
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Post by RoboRed Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:49 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
Given that she thought it was a mass teleport spell,
Completely forgot about that.
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Post by SS117 Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:02 pm

SilentCarto wrote:
RoboRed wrote:So did Jetstream die off with the nuke?
Given that she thought it was a mass teleport spell, and therefore had ground zero literally in her hooves, I think that would be a solid "yes".

SS117 wrote:I apologize if this was answered way before but just where did Blackjack get the megaspell that destroyed Shadowbolt Tower?
It was the one stored under Hoofington, in the megaspell facility being maintained by those... ghost-zombie things.

Oh! The one all the way back in Chapter 26? I completely forgot about that. Thanks!
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Post by Icy Shake Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:34 am

Somber wrote:She got left behind by the story.  Essentially, she carried a targeting talisman to Roam.  When the newest megaspell was tested, it didn't go off where they thought it did, and instead nuked Roam.  To be fair, Garnet set off doomsday with the belief that Equestria would come out of it alive and intact.  She didn't anticipate that the skies would be closed off and the surface left to rot.  She just wanted to get out of the OIA purge with her tail intact, because she saw the writing on the wall way earlier than others: the liaisons would hang with Goldenblood for crimes against the country.
I was thinking about that while reading yesterday: whether Garnet had acted on her own or for someone else, and in any case, what the motivation for the first strike (reported to have happened in a memory in 62.2) was. I guess that's that. Now, unless I'm mistaken, I believe that Garnet was the liaison to Peace. Which raises the question: is megaspell-oriented stupid contagious?

Chapter Sixty Two Part Two Running Thoughts:
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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 28 Empty Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by Icy Shake Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:34 am

Chapter Sixty Two Part Two Overall Thoughts:
Chapter Sixty Two Part Two Editing:
Other Editing:
Icy Shake
Icy Shake
Alicorn

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