Sister forumWorm Discussion Thread
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Stringtheory
Scienza
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:12 pm
Remember chapter tags, folks.
Last edited by Scienza on Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:03 pm
Yeah, that's my bad. I annotated my actual chapter thoughts and speculation, then left the following in-spoiler wishful thinking and shipping-goggle speculation's tag implied.
But yeah, you should just ignore my posts from now on. I contribute nothing to this discussion, anyway
But yeah, you should just ignore my posts from now on. I contribute nothing to this discussion, anyway
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:38 pm
- Interlude 26:
- Jesus Christ. So many questions answered.
Number Man was Harbinger. Fascinating trivia, but ultimately overshadowed.
Fuckmothering Scion, dude. The Entity, at Jack's prodding, seems to have deigned to cut the cycle short and get some gratification from that primal brutality that lurks in the creatures its Shards have latched onto.
And so it begins.
But one question remains--if The Entity's counterpart is dead, what the fuck are the Endbringers?
Also, it appears that Taylor's true power lies in her plans and improvisations and schemes--a thinker Shard, as it were. The fact that it can utterly override lower life forms is a convenient side-effect
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Guest Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:21 pm
Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:On an unrelated note,
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- Yes, this.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:03 pm
Last wrote:Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:On an unrelated note,
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- Por Que no Los dos?:
TaylorxLisaxRachel OTT- Actual spoilers as of 27.2:
- On a serious note, Rachel's interactions toward Taylor in recent arcs, even after the time skip where one would think Rachel would be feeling betrayed (and, after not knowing what her feelings even were, simply hugged Taylor upon seeing her for the first time in almost two years) indicate a surprising closeness between the two, ever since the Coil situation. While it may be (and likely is) strictly platonic, I can't help but see a bit of a crush at least on Rachel's end, and possible (somewhat subconscious) reciprocation on Taylor's part.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:21 pm
Mister Frost wrote:Last wrote:Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:On an unrelated note,
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- Por Que no Los dos?:
TaylorxLisaxRachel OTT
- Actual spoilers as of 27.2:
- Puppy Love (Sorry, I had to):
- It is more than a bit hard to read into Rachel's behavior. She does care very intensely about Taylor, it's just that her social behavior and emotions have been so fucked up by events, her power, and her own choices that it's very hard to interpret a lot of the intricacies that are there. This doesn't preclude any romantic feelings that she may have for Taylor, it just means that reading into anything beyond general feelings like intense attachment and fury is much more difficult.
- Minor spoilers for approximately where Frost is at:
- That said, Rachel has spent the time-skip years living and interacting with several relatively close companions, so she definitely has a better understanding of her emotions and human norms for those emotions, so the return hug might be romantically charged.
On an unrelated note,
- Spoilers for where Frost is at:
- I see you've entered the Scion arc... As always, be prepared for the massively escalating escalation and mind-blow that comes with going against a god.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:31 pm
- 27.3:
that little comfort/cuddle on the mountainside does not dampen the fires of shipping.
As far as things go, I'd look back to the reunion. It's pretty much stated that Rachel didn't know whether to hug Taylor or hit her until they met up. That sort of jumblefuck of emotions tends to imply a bit beyond friendship.
Regardless, I'll have to stop a bit through 27.4. I have about a 150-click-movement tomorrow, so I need to restify.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Guest Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:24 am
- 15.6:
- Hey, more ParianXFlechette fuel.
Not sure what's going on with Flechette's bandages. Did Bonesaw not notice Flechette was a cape and give her the same plastic surgery treatment as the civillians instead of the usual cape monstrosity? Or is she wearing the costume because she wants the element of surprise? Make attackers think she's one of Parian's people.
I'm not sure exactly how much of what Ballistic is saying I believe. Trickster given everything I've seen seems to care about the rest of his group, He got very angry with Tattletale over the possibility of her getting Ballistic killed via Siberian. There's multiple instances of him interacting with Noelle and when Bonesaw's cloud descended over the city he saved Sundancer. Maybe that was just the most logical decision.
Of course there's always the possibility Trickster doesn't think Coil would invest the resources into helping Noelle without the other's powers. That Trickter's powers alone aren't very valuable and he only cares about cleaning up those two messes Coil's going to help them with.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Stringtheory Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:33 am
Spoiler tags please, in case someone else starts reading Worm.swicked wrote:
- Whatever chapter Echidna is in:
I just wanted to comment on that now that I'm around the end of Echidna.
I like the heroes. I think the vast majority of them are pretty cool. I've liked Weld and Clockblocker. Kid Win is pretty cool and Miss Militia is flat-out awesome. They may have their ineffectual kowtowing to their superiors, giving respect where not is deserved. They may have people who manage to get into those very positions of power over the best in their number (like Myriden, the guy who pretended to be a wizard and was super powerful, was pretty neat, even if his personality was never really developed). As a whole, though, put up against the majority of the villains in Brockton Bay like the Merchants or Empire Eighty Eight, they have a respectable level of integrity.
I mean, the Merchants had nothing respectable about them. Empire Eighty Eight had a lot of weak and broken individuals, like Purity, Night and Fog, who never seemed to hold to any sort of ideal or goal. The closest Purity came to that was whenever her daughter was in danger, after while she wasn't really known to do anything in particular.
We never get much more than snippets about the Wards, let alone the actual Protectorate, but I saw a lot of potential there during the fight with Echidna.
So I'm not sure I particularly like or dislike either group all that much, with the exception to the fact that the villains aren't expected to adore their leaders. We never saw any of them compliment coil the way the wards compliment the triumvirate, after all. Honestly, this idolization ties the heroes almost as much as the flat-out bureaucracy.
It's going to be interesting seeing how things shake-out in the future, though.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Stringtheory Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:37 am
And modified in post.swicked wrote:I was just adding it.
...kinda defeats the point, though, if you quote the thing.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:57 pm
If you don't quite get Night and Fog....well, one of the interludes alludes to the two of them. Let it just be said that there's plenty of reason they act as they do.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:09 pm
swicked wrote:
- 19.z:
Toward the beginning of the story, when Taylor was surrounded by girls calling her names, she bemoaned the fact that she wasn't a guy since then she could fight back. Throw a punch. She'd get the stuffing beat out of her, but then the whole thing would be over. But she's a girl so that wasn't an option.
If Emma's inner thoughts are to believed, the only thing that made her such a persistent bully to Taylor was the latter's insistence on adhering to gender roles.
- Spoiler:
- Or, alternately, Emma's just a sociopath rationalizing her own sadistic behavior.
I think Taylor's reluctance to lash out at them is more than just gender roles at work. Pre-Skitter Taylor largely saw herself as a good person, someone who fit within society's definitions of moral behavior, and who was opposed to Emma and Sophia as it is possible to be. She does have a pretty high degree of insecurity regarding her image as a woman (unsurprising, given the shit she's gotten) but I don't think that's as large of a part in her behavior as her insistence on being a "good person." It's why Worm's host of revenge fanfics are so satisfying and so horrifying.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:03 pm
>Leet and Über.swicked wrote:Alexandria has got to be the dumbest smart person in worm.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:52 pm
- 30.5:
Shit has gotten a bit real. Shit has gotten beyond real. Shit has gotten so fucking real that it is adrift in a sea of reality and has lost sight of the shore that is the memory of a time when shit wasn't real. Shit has retroactively gotten real. We're approaching an event horizon where shit loops back to not being real.
I can't recall having read a story where shit ever got this real.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:19 pm
- End:
- That was....I.....
My emotions are a mess right now.
I wish I could say that I knew all along that Taylor was alive, that I called Wildbow on his bluff. But the truth is that, yes, Wildbow does have the balls to do that, and I was only clinging to the faint hope of a miracle.
On one side of things, Taylor's patching things up with her dad and is slowly adapting to her no-powers, one-arm life. The Undersiders are still in business, Bitch and Imp have their own little surrogate families, that fucking whore Cozen doesn't have Grue and is denied a happy ending, and Grue is too dead-as-fuck to get between Taylor and Rachel.
I'm torn between wanting some sort of more complete resolution, one where Taylor can see her friends again, can reunite with the gang even as she and Rachel inevitably declare their feelings for each other and commence a passionate night up in Rachel's little grotto (I have no idea when this ship started taking up the whole harbor, so to speak.) But, at the same time, I kind of want this delicate balance to remain. For this hard-fought peace Taylor has to last.
Basically, while the story has ended, it hasn't come to a close. The closure is there, just incomplete. There's a hole in me that the total end would have gone, and it's still empty. And that makes it all the more memorable. As haunting and yearning as it is peaceful and beautiful.
Or maybe I could just read a fanfic where Taylor and Rachel fuck. That might do it.
I've also discovered Worm D20, which is basically what happens when Worm meets Darths & Droids. It is amusing enough for the moment.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:14 pm
Mister Frost wrote:
- End:
My emotions are a mess right now.
I wish I could say that I knew all along that Taylor was alive, that I called Wildbow on his bluff. But the truth is that, yes, Wildbow does have the balls to do that, and I was only clinging to the faint hope of a miracle.
On one side of things, Taylor's patching things up with her dad and is slowly adapting to her no-powers, one-arm life. The Undersiders are still in business, Bitch and Imp have their own little surrogate families, that fucking whore Cozen doesn't have Grue and is denied a happy ending, and Grue is too dead-as-fuck to get between Taylor and Rachel.
I'm torn between wanting some sort of more complete resolution, one where Taylor can see her friends again, can reunite with the gang even as she and Rachel inevitably declare their feelings for each other and commence a passionate night up in Rachel's little grotto (I have no idea when this ship started taking up the whole harbor, so to speak.) But, at the same time, I kind of want this delicate balance to remain. For this hard-fought peace Taylor has to last.
Basically, while the story has ended, it hasn't come to a close. The closure is there, just incomplete. There's a hole in me that the total end would have gone, and it's still empty. And that makes it all the more memorable. As haunting and yearning as it is peaceful and beautiful.
Or maybe I could just read a fanfic where Taylor and Rachel fuck. That might do it.
- End too:
- I agree wholeheartedly. Speaking of which, what'd you think about that final battle, since I've been dying to talk with someone about it. Fucking awesome, but thematically, it's... weird. Taylor basically beat Scion by doing exactly what Emma did to her. Granted it was to save humanity, while Emma was just an insecure sadist, but even then, Khepri's so fucking out of it that motivations of survival of her species or even her friends get incredibly blurry. It's just a very interesting resolution that fucking wrecks any last vestiges of moral absolutism in the story.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:51 pm
Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:
- End:
My emotions are a mess right now.
I wish I could say that I knew all along that Taylor was alive, that I called Wildbow on his bluff. But the truth is that, yes, Wildbow does have the balls to do that, and I was only clinging to the faint hope of a miracle.
On one side of things, Taylor's patching things up with her dad and is slowly adapting to her no-powers, one-arm life. The Undersiders are still in business, Bitch and Imp have their own little surrogate families, that fucking whore Cozen doesn't have Grue and is denied a happy ending, and Grue is too dead-as-fuck to get between Taylor and Rachel.
I'm torn between wanting some sort of more complete resolution, one where Taylor can see her friends again, can reunite with the gang even as she and Rachel inevitably declare their feelings for each other and commence a passionate night up in Rachel's little grotto (I have no idea when this ship started taking up the whole harbor, so to speak.) But, at the same time, I kind of want this delicate balance to remain. For this hard-fought peace Taylor has to last.
Basically, while the story has ended, it hasn't come to a close. The closure is there, just incomplete. There's a hole in me that the total end would have gone, and it's still empty. And that makes it all the more memorable. As haunting and yearning as it is peaceful and beautiful.
Or maybe I could just read a fanfic where Taylor and Rachel fuck. That might do it.I'd also thoroughly recommend reading Cenotaph, which is just excellent.
- End too:
- End Three:
And I do like that. The grey/grey morality of the story. Hell, Brandish's black/white view of the world (and subsequent shoving of that view on her daughters) is why they're both so screwed up (although Panacea was also screwed up by Brandish's neglect and the self-loathing she felt after falling in love with Victoria, more due to Vicoria's awe/fear aura than any virtue of Victoria's).
I've heard others mention that Khepri basically "bullying" Scion into giving up makes her like Emma, but, as ties into the moral mess that is one of Worm's themes, one can't really compare sadistic, bitchy bullying with attempts to slay the omnicidal psychic alien war-god. If the argument was that Khepri was evil because she hijacked the bodies and minds of several thousand people and used them as disposable pawns in the fight...yeah, I can see it, but, again, it was a necessary evil--the alternative was the pan-universal extinction of humanity by aforementioned god-bomination.
It says something about the story that it goes from underworld gang-wars and bank robberies to, as mentioned, enslaving inhuman monsters and slaying near-omnipotent deities, and it doesn't seem forced or out of place.
In the end, though, I was still mostly concerned with the characters rather than the events themselves. I'll confess that, toward the end, I was almost frantic to finish it, just because I wanted that badly to know how it ended and how they ended up.
By the way, have you sampled Pact yet? Enough to reccomend one way or the other?
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:55 pm
It's also quite good. I haven't gotten hooked by it as much as Worm (probably because I'm slightly concerned about getting sucked into another massive work), but so far it's been just as good as you'd expect from Wildbow. I'll probably get caught up on it next time I have a mess of free time.Mister Frost wrote:Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:
- End:
My emotions are a mess right now.
I wish I could say that I knew all along that Taylor was alive, that I called Wildbow on his bluff. But the truth is that, yes, Wildbow does have the balls to do that, and I was only clinging to the faint hope of a miracle.
On one side of things, Taylor's patching things up with her dad and is slowly adapting to her no-powers, one-arm life. The Undersiders are still in business, Bitch and Imp have their own little surrogate families, that fucking whore Cozen doesn't have Grue and is denied a happy ending, and Grue is too dead-as-fuck to get between Taylor and Rachel.
I'm torn between wanting some sort of more complete resolution, one where Taylor can see her friends again, can reunite with the gang even as she and Rachel inevitably declare their feelings for each other and commence a passionate night up in Rachel's little grotto (I have no idea when this ship started taking up the whole harbor, so to speak.) But, at the same time, I kind of want this delicate balance to remain. For this hard-fought peace Taylor has to last.
Basically, while the story has ended, it hasn't come to a close. The closure is there, just incomplete. There's a hole in me that the total end would have gone, and it's still empty. And that makes it all the more memorable. As haunting and yearning as it is peaceful and beautiful.
Or maybe I could just read a fanfic where Taylor and Rachel fuck. That might do it.I'd also thoroughly recommend reading Cenotaph, which is just excellent.
- End too:
- End Three:
And I do like that. The grey/grey morality of the story. Hell, Brandish's black/white view of the world (and subsequent shoving of that view on her daughters) is why they're both so screwed up (although Panacea was also screwed up by Brandish's neglect and the self-loathing she felt after falling in love with Victoria, more due to Vicoria's awe/fear aura than any virtue of Victoria's).
I've heard others mention that Khepri basically "bullying" Scion into giving up makes her like Emma, but, as ties into the moral mess that is one of Worm's themes, one can't really compare sadistic, bitchy bullying with attempts to slay the omnicidal psychic alien war-god. If the argument was that Khepri was evil because she hijacked the bodies and minds of several thousand people and used them as disposable pawns in the fight...yeah, I can see it, but, again, it was a necessary evil--the alternative was the pan-universal extinction of humanity by aforementioned god-bomination.
It says something about the story that it goes from underworld gang-wars and bank robberies to, as mentioned, enslaving inhuman monsters and slaying near-omnipotent deities, and it doesn't seem forced or out of place.
In the end, though, I was still mostly concerned with the characters rather than the events themselves. I'll confess that, toward the end, I was almost frantic to finish it, just because I wanted that badly to know how it ended and how they ended up.
By the way, have you sampled Pact yet? Enough to reccomend one way or the other?
- End 4:
- Aye, I agree. On the bullying thing, while I agree that the way that she defeats him doesn't make her some sort of irredeemable bully or anything so black and white, but it is still complicated. I can't help but feel like Khepri saw enough of pre-Undersiders Taylor in Scion to make that leap.
- Panacea (Still very spoilery):
- What you said about Amy reminds me of something I saw a while ago that messed me up. Victoria's powers influence the emotions of those people around her, usually making them more awed or inspired by her. She probably triggered right around the same time that Amy was going through puberty. The implications are... unpleasant.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:46 pm
Scienza wrote:It's also quite good. I haven't gotten hooked by it as much as Worm (probably because I'm slightly concerned about getting sucked into another massive work), but so far it's been just as good as you'd expect from Wildbow. I'll probably get caught up on it next time I have a mess of free time.Mister Frost wrote:Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:
- End:
My emotions are a mess right now.
I wish I could say that I knew all along that Taylor was alive, that I called Wildbow on his bluff. But the truth is that, yes, Wildbow does have the balls to do that, and I was only clinging to the faint hope of a miracle.
On one side of things, Taylor's patching things up with her dad and is slowly adapting to her no-powers, one-arm life. The Undersiders are still in business, Bitch and Imp have their own little surrogate families, that fucking whore Cozen doesn't have Grue and is denied a happy ending, and Grue is too dead-as-fuck to get between Taylor and Rachel.
I'm torn between wanting some sort of more complete resolution, one where Taylor can see her friends again, can reunite with the gang even as she and Rachel inevitably declare their feelings for each other and commence a passionate night up in Rachel's little grotto (I have no idea when this ship started taking up the whole harbor, so to speak.) But, at the same time, I kind of want this delicate balance to remain. For this hard-fought peace Taylor has to last.
Basically, while the story has ended, it hasn't come to a close. The closure is there, just incomplete. There's a hole in me that the total end would have gone, and it's still empty. And that makes it all the more memorable. As haunting and yearning as it is peaceful and beautiful.
Or maybe I could just read a fanfic where Taylor and Rachel fuck. That might do it.I'd also thoroughly recommend reading Cenotaph, which is just excellent.
- End too:
- End Three:
And I do like that. The grey/grey morality of the story. Hell, Brandish's black/white view of the world (and subsequent shoving of that view on her daughters) is why they're both so screwed up (although Panacea was also screwed up by Brandish's neglect and the self-loathing she felt after falling in love with Victoria, more due to Vicoria's awe/fear aura than any virtue of Victoria's).
I've heard others mention that Khepri basically "bullying" Scion into giving up makes her like Emma, but, as ties into the moral mess that is one of Worm's themes, one can't really compare sadistic, bitchy bullying with attempts to slay the omnicidal psychic alien war-god. If the argument was that Khepri was evil because she hijacked the bodies and minds of several thousand people and used them as disposable pawns in the fight...yeah, I can see it, but, again, it was a necessary evil--the alternative was the pan-universal extinction of humanity by aforementioned god-bomination.
It says something about the story that it goes from underworld gang-wars and bank robberies to, as mentioned, enslaving inhuman monsters and slaying near-omnipotent deities, and it doesn't seem forced or out of place.
In the end, though, I was still mostly concerned with the characters rather than the events themselves. I'll confess that, toward the end, I was almost frantic to finish it, just because I wanted that badly to know how it ended and how they ended up.
By the way, have you sampled Pact yet? Enough to reccomend one way or the other?
- End 4:
- Panacea (Still very spoilery):
- Pancest:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. As I mentioned, it's likely more due to that than any attractive virtue of Victoria's that Amelia fell in love with her--because, as is fairly clear, Victoria's an entitled, self-righteous, unpleasant bitch. One has to wonder if she's actually homosexual or if that was just a side effect of her power-induced feelings for Victoria.
It's quite interesting to note that she'd most certainly be in a far better place mentally if she'd have stayed with her loving, supportive father--a supervillain gang lord. Hell, even in-canon, post-Birdcage Panacea--even with her kinda-gruesome tattoos and probably not-entirely-voluntary slimming-down-- is clearly in a better place, having found a place where she doesn't constantly feel guilty that she's not healing people and having a loving parental figure around. Fuck, she's actually feared by the other (presumably powerful parahuman criminals) residents of the Birdcage because, presumably, she's less scared to use her power for its (potentially nightmarish) offensive capabilities.
- Saint:
- Well, you were right about him being a dickwhistle. The "badass non-parahuman" role was instead fulfilled by the unnamed Dragon Tooth officer who took on Grey Boy, Jack and a few others, solo, and wrecked shit. Damn, that's some Ollanius Pius shit right there.
- Tangent:
- It's interesting to note how Shards develop from generation to generation. Marquis had range and offensive power, but was limited to bone (mostly his own) while Panacea, though having only touch-range, could manipulate biology on a cellular level. Kaiser could, creatively and precisely, make metal sprout from metal, while Golem, though limited to making hand-, foot-, and face-shaped outcroppings, could do it in any material. New Wave, however, with their relatively uncreative and unintelligent powers (the blunt object to the villains' scalpel, if you will) only had variations in the aspects of the powers--Lady Photon was all-around, her niece Glory Girl was a physical powerhouse, Shielder was better at forcefields and Laserdream had good lasers. This is probably due to the fact that, by all appearances, the heroes (who are mostly physical, as well as just about all physically-based powers) appear to be from Zion "The Warrior", while most mental/unconventional powers seem to come from Eden (his more introspective counterpart). Nonetheless, I'm not complaining about the relatively greater screen time most villains and rogues get compared to heroes--in addition to the moral complexity and relative lack of self-delusion that the heroes tend to suffer, the villains' powers are just plain more creative and interesting than the bulk of the heroes' powers (with some exceptions, like Miss Militia and Clockblocker)
- Number Man:
- This is an OP motherfucker. His power puts Tattletale, Accord, and all of Teacher's Thinkers to shame, near Dinah's level (with fewer limitations) and, despite him being a thin, physically-unpowered middle-aged man, lets him powerhouse through high-level cape fights. I'm not complaining, though. I actually love the guy, and I find his power quite interesting. Moreso than Contessa, I think. His perspectives on everything from mathematics to morality also make him quite an intriguing fellow, and, unlike the rest of Cauldron (deceased, save Contessa, who's with Teacher) is still free and unaccounted for. I'd be interested in what the fanfic writers (and Wildbow, should he ever return to the parahumanverse) do with him.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:21 am
Woops, accidental downvote.
Anyway, that's kind of the point--Taylor doesn't really care about them, either. She grows to like them, sure, but she doesn't consider them family like the Undersiders were. It doesn't help that their main bonding experience is chafing under the PRT's restrictions, rather than the Undersiders' facing off against everyone from heroes to E88's spawn to the Nine.
Anyway, that's kind of the point--Taylor doesn't really care about them, either. She grows to like them, sure, but she doesn't consider them family like the Undersiders were. It doesn't help that their main bonding experience is chafing under the PRT's restrictions, rather than the Undersiders' facing off against everyone from heroes to E88's spawn to the Nine.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:04 am
Well, yes. The Undersiders took Taylor in when she was just starting out on the cape game. They were her first friends--like, at all--since Emma. During a time when Taylor was insecure, feeling near-powerless and borderline suicidal, the Undersiders gave her a chance to, as she even says, "escape". And that escape turned into real power once their escapades escalated into full-on (supporter) control of a significant part of the city, which then escalated into being the unquestioned warlords of Brockton Bay's underground (and most of its populace).
Then she goes to the Wards, where they immediately start stripping away her independence, try to neuter her powers, and look for any excuse to cut the sling-load and dump her back in jail. Even her peers (albeit prospective team leaders) are along on a mission to judge and evaluate her, while limiting her as much as possible. Even if, in the end, her new team is accepting of her, the PRT at large is still trying to keep her on a leash, and everyone frequently used her precarious position to exercise whatever petty power they have over her--the woman who put the smack-down on ABB, the Chosen, the Merchants, the Pure, the Teeth, and the fucking Nine.
I kind of understand that, even in that time gap, she doesn't feel quite as fond of them.
Then she goes to the Wards, where they immediately start stripping away her independence, try to neuter her powers, and look for any excuse to cut the sling-load and dump her back in jail. Even her peers (albeit prospective team leaders) are along on a mission to judge and evaluate her, while limiting her as much as possible. Even if, in the end, her new team is accepting of her, the PRT at large is still trying to keep her on a leash, and everyone frequently used her precarious position to exercise whatever petty power they have over her--the woman who put the smack-down on ABB, the Chosen, the Merchants, the Pure, the Teeth, and the fucking Nine.
I kind of understand that, even in that time gap, she doesn't feel quite as fond of them.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:29 am
- Spoiler:
Well, like I was telling Sci--for plenty of reasons, in Worm and other works, the villains are often far more interesting than the heroes (even when the morality of both gets blurry). So little time is spent for the readers to get to know them because Taylor spent so little time getting to know them. To her, her "defection" was a means to an end--preparing for Jack's apocalypse. If she makes some friends or whatever, great, but she doesn't particularly want to try or make an effort to reach out to them.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:27 pm
- Spoiler:
True, but, again, we saw the Brockton Bay Wards mostly from either their own perspectives, or from the perspective of Taylor, who had something of a frenemy thing going on with Clockblocker, at least. We see the Chicago Wards only from Taylor (who doesn't really are about them) and Theo (who's socially awkward as hell) for the most part.
Also, I'm sure by now you're beginning to see the fires of SkitterxBitch building. Embrace it. You know it's true.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:58 am
swicked wrote:
- Continuation on the current discussion:
'Cause I really dislike the guy. Especially that stupid bit where he told Taylor that she's Jack's nemesis, the one to hunt him down. That she should work on putting the plan together because he wanted to be the one to mourn for the dead. That they needed someone to mourn for them.
I'm like... those people have families. People who care about them that will mourn for them. Theo's role as hero, much like Taylor's, is to stop the S9. Maybe it's because I am more on the practical, Taylor-side of mentalities than I am to the more emotional Theo-side, but the guy just sounded like he was spouting nonsense. Worthless gestures. He's not helping anyone and I feel like he's bound to just get himself killed.
It's too bad Taylor didn't realize how fragile Theo would be come showtime so that she could have tried to toughen him up a bit. It makes me feel like he's going to end up dragging his feet and get himself killed at some point.
- Spoiler:
On one hand, it's kinda admirable that he's taking up the mantle of being a hero despite being so obviously unsuited for the role, when he'd rather just run and let the real heroes take care of things if he had the choice. On the other--he's clearly unsuited for the role, and he'd rather just run and let the real heroes take care of things if he had the choice. I mean, props for trying, but he's still a chubby, self-pitying kid with nothing but a rather lame power at his disposal. Can't say I'm a huge fan, though I think that's kind of the point.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:42 am
Mister Frost wrote:swicked wrote:
- Continuation on the current discussion:
'Cause I really dislike the guy. Especially that stupid bit where he told Taylor that she's Jack's nemesis, the one to hunt him down. That she should work on putting the plan together because he wanted to be the one to mourn for the dead. That they needed someone to mourn for them.
I'm like... those people have families. People who care about them that will mourn for them. Theo's role as hero, much like Taylor's, is to stop the S9. Maybe it's because I am more on the practical, Taylor-side of mentalities than I am to the more emotional Theo-side, but the guy just sounded like he was spouting nonsense. Worthless gestures. He's not helping anyone and I feel like he's bound to just get himself killed.
It's too bad Taylor didn't realize how fragile Theo would be come showtime so that she could have tried to toughen him up a bit. It makes me feel like he's going to end up dragging his feet and get himself killed at some point.
- Spoiler:
On one hand, it's kinda admirable that he's taking up the mantle of being a hero despite being so obviously unsuited for the role, when he'd rather just run and let the real heroes take care of things if he had the choice. On the other--he's clearly unsuited for the role, and he'd rather just run and let the real heroes take care of things if he had the choice. I mean, props for trying, but he's still a chubby, self-pitying kid with nothing but a rather lame power at his disposal. Can't say I'm a huge fan, though I think that's kind of the point.
- Spoiler:
- His response also makes sense in the context of his childhood. Growing up with Kaiser as a father probably meant that he never did get to have any of the normal emotional breakdowns or periods of mourning that other people inevitably go through. So, his overly-emotional-to-the-point-of-being-disruptive swing is wild and crazy because he never learned to deal with his feels in a healthy manner.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:26 pm
- Spoiler:
True. It's shown in Purity's early interlude that he's pretty much been abused (not necessarily physically. Mentally and emotionally is more Kaiser's style) to the point of being completely subservient and "respectful".
Not that that makes him any more interesting or likeable as he is now.
Your thoughts on our earlier points of discussion?
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:26 pm
Mister Frost wrote:
- Spoiler:
True. It's shown in Purity's early interlude that he's pretty much been abused (not necessarily physically. Mentally and emotionally is more Kaiser's style) to the point of being completely subservient and "respectful".
Not that that makes him any more interesting or likeable as he is now.
Your thoughts on our earlier points of discussion?
- There's probably ending spoilers in here:
@Pancest
I'm inclined to think that Amelia is actually gay, if only because I don't think that Victoria's powers had either the high-level neurological capabilities of Amy's power or the absolute control of Heartbreaker and his kids. It's hard to say, because she never actually indicates any interest in anyone other than GG, male or female. Now, as to her attraction to the only person she grew up with that ever regarded her as family, well, that's definitely more likely to be the brainwashing.
I'm not sure about the growing up with Marquis thing. On one hand, you're absolutely right that her emotional state would be very much better from having a family that actually saw you as such. Also, if her attraction to Vicky turns out to be something other than being emotionally bombarded with love-rays, she'd have been free to have a wild Catwoman romance with Glory Girl without any of the shame. The only problem is that I think Amy would have possibly been too powerful for the pre-everything-going-to-shit Protectorate to allow to go free. She basically has the same level of unfettered mutagenic properties of Nilbog and Bonesaw, meaning that she's scary enough to warrant getting taken down hard, but not scary enough to be left alone (Like the aforementioned Nilbog or Moord Nag). So, best case scenario, she and her dad end up in the Birdcage, worst case scenario, they both end up dead or worse.
@Saint
I completely agree. Saint is an asshole, and the Dragon's Teeth are fucking badass.
@Shards'NStuff
I'm not as sure about the Zion/Eden dichotomy, if only because there are several Cauldron capes who are ostensibly physical (Battery comes to mind), and Thinkers and Masters seem to mostly come from Zion.
Also, if you'd like a very interesting take on the heroic side of the equation, I'd really recommend Cenotaph. It's a divergence point AU where Taylor ended up joining the Wards, and it's arguably darker and more brutal than Worm. It's also extremely well done.
@NumbersMan
Jack Slash/Numbers Man OTP
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Frost Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:54 pm
Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:
- Spoiler:
True. It's shown in Purity's early interlude that he's pretty much been abused (not necessarily physically. Mentally and emotionally is more Kaiser's style) to the point of being completely subservient and "respectful".
Not that that makes him any more interesting or likeable as he is now.
Your thoughts on our earlier points of discussion?
- There's probably ending spoilers in here:
@Pancest
I'm inclined to think that Amelia is actually gay, if only because I don't think that Victoria's powers had either the high-level neurological capabilities of Amy's power or the absolute control of Heartbreaker and his kids. It's hard to say, because she never actually indicates any interest in anyone other than GG, male or female. Now, as to her attraction to the only person she grew up with that ever regarded her as family, well, that's definitely more likely to be the brainwashing.
I'm not sure about the growing up with Marquis thing. On one hand, you're absolutely right that her emotional state would be very much better from having a family that actually saw you as such. Also, if her attraction to Vicky turns out to be something other than being emotionally bombarded with love-rays, she'd have been free to have a wild Catwoman romance with Glory Girl without any of the shame. The only problem is that I think Amy would have possibly been too powerful for the pre-everything-going-to-shit Protectorate to allow to go free. She basically has the same level of unfettered mutagenic properties of Nilbog and Bonesaw, meaning that she's scary enough to warrant getting taken down hard, but not scary enough to be left alone (Like the aforementioned Nilbog or Moord Nag). So, best case scenario, she and her dad end up in the Birdcage, worst case scenario, they both end up dead or worse.
@Saint
I completely agree. Saint is an asshole, and the Dragon's Teeth are fucking badass.
@Shards'NStuff
I'm not as sure about the Zion/Eden dichotomy, if only because there are several Cauldron capes who are ostensibly physical (Battery comes to mind), and Thinkers and Masters seem to mostly come from Zion.
Also, if you'd like a very interesting take on the heroic side of the equation, I'd really recommend Cenotaph. It's a divergence point AU where Taylor ended up joining the Wards, and it's arguably darker and more brutal than Worm. It's also extremely well done.
@NumbersMan
Jack Slash/Numbers Man OTP
- Spoiler:
- On the other hand, being influenced by Marquis, Amelia would likely develop her own code of conduct (or adapt/adopt his) and similarly, for the most part, stay in that sweet spot (that the Undersiders even briefly occupied) where you're too powerful for the locals but beneath the notice of the big dogs. I mostly see her being a for-hire healer for the supervillain community, with possible services in the "tune-up" and "enhancement" departments--for a price, naturally. She'd mostly draw on her father's gang and reputation for protection, and only resort to the mildest of measures at her disposal when she has to fight (since you tend to draw attention by turning people inside-out)
I also like the idea of a Catwoman-style fling with Victoria, personally. Vicky'd probably be conflicted as hell, too, since the "evil" Panacea seems to be rather nice girl who doesn't really hurt anyone.
Man, that actually sounds like a fairly interesting AU fic.
I gave Cenotaph a shot; read through most of the second arc. Doesn't really grab my attention as such. Not that it's bad, per se, I just didn't particularly like seeing everyone's development, accrued power and influence, and relationships reset so freshly after finishing the story proper. I might go back to it later.
Regarding Shards, I suppose a better explaination would be that the more powerful (read: vital to an Entity's survival) Shards came from Eden. Such as Legend's space-travel laser-beam stuff, or Taylor's Administration, or Jack's Broadcasting. Most of the ones that give an Entity pause to fight (like Foil's stuff) probably came from Eden, who was too busy gettin' shanked like a bitch to hold onto or cripple them like Zion did.
As far as Jack and Number Man goes....hey, they were partners in the Slaughterhouse Nine for quite some time, especially in their younger (hormonal teenage days). Even modern-day Number Man sets aside his costume and goes out in plainclothes for Jack's sake, so their friend(?)ship still holds some weight after all this time. Who knows what went down between Harbinger and Jacob during the good ol' days?
Or should I say, went up?
Get it?
Up.
As in boners.
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Re: Worm Discussion Thread
by Scienza Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:07 pm
Mister Frost wrote:Scienza wrote:Mister Frost wrote:
- Spoiler:
True. It's shown in Purity's early interlude that he's pretty much been abused (not necessarily physically. Mentally and emotionally is more Kaiser's style) to the point of being completely subservient and "respectful".
Not that that makes him any more interesting or likeable as he is now.
Your thoughts on our earlier points of discussion?
- There's probably ending spoilers in here:
@Pancest
I'm inclined to think that Amelia is actually gay, if only because I don't think that Victoria's powers had either the high-level neurological capabilities of Amy's power or the absolute control of Heartbreaker and his kids. It's hard to say, because she never actually indicates any interest in anyone other than GG, male or female. Now, as to her attraction to the only person she grew up with that ever regarded her as family, well, that's definitely more likely to be the brainwashing.
I'm not sure about the growing up with Marquis thing. On one hand, you're absolutely right that her emotional state would be very much better from having a family that actually saw you as such. Also, if her attraction to Vicky turns out to be something other than being emotionally bombarded with love-rays, she'd have been free to have a wild Catwoman romance with Glory Girl without any of the shame. The only problem is that I think Amy would have possibly been too powerful for the pre-everything-going-to-shit Protectorate to allow to go free. She basically has the same level of unfettered mutagenic properties of Nilbog and Bonesaw, meaning that she's scary enough to warrant getting taken down hard, but not scary enough to be left alone (Like the aforementioned Nilbog or Moord Nag). So, best case scenario, she and her dad end up in the Birdcage, worst case scenario, they both end up dead or worse.
@Saint
I completely agree. Saint is an asshole, and the Dragon's Teeth are fucking badass.
@Shards'NStuff
I'm not as sure about the Zion/Eden dichotomy, if only because there are several Cauldron capes who are ostensibly physical (Battery comes to mind), and Thinkers and Masters seem to mostly come from Zion.
Also, if you'd like a very interesting take on the heroic side of the equation, I'd really recommend Cenotaph. It's a divergence point AU where Taylor ended up joining the Wards, and it's arguably darker and more brutal than Worm. It's also extremely well done.
@NumbersMan
Jack Slash/Numbers Man OTP
- Spoiler:
I also like the idea of a Catwoman-style fling with Victoria, personally. Vicky'd probably be conflicted as hell, too, since the "evil" Panacea seems to be rather nice girl who doesn't really hurt anyone.
Man, that actually sounds like a fairly interesting AU fic.
I gave Cenotaph a shot; read through most of the second arc. Doesn't really grab my attention as such. Not that it's bad, per se, I just didn't particularly like seeing everyone's development, accrued power and influence, and relationships reset so freshly after finishing the story proper. I might go back to it later.
Regarding Shards, I suppose a better explaination would be that the more powerful (read: vital to an Entity's survival) Shards came from Eden. Such as Legend's space-travel laser-beam stuff, or Taylor's Administration, or Jack's Broadcasting. Most of the ones that give an Entity pause to fight (like Foil's stuff) probably came from Eden, who was too busy gettin' shanked like a bitch to hold onto or cripple them like Zion did.
As far as Jack and Number Man goes....hey, they were partners in the Slaughterhouse Nine for quite some time, especially in their younger (hormonal teenage days). Even modern-day Number Man sets aside his costume and goes out in plainclothes for Jack's sake, so their friend(?)ship still holds some weight after all this time. Who knows what went down between Harbinger and Jacob during the good ol' days?
Or should I say, went up?
Get it?
Up.
As in boners.
- Spoiler:
- Well, that probably was what Worm was like at one point. IIRC, Panacea and Glory Girl were going to be the protagonists in one of Wildbow's earlier drafts.
@JS/NM
He can make it as long as you need it to be. If you know what I mean...
Shit, I've got to stop forgetting to put the end "/spoiler" tags.
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