Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[Vinylshadow]

....not sure if old news or not, but...

Just came across 'Whinnyapolis' in "The Daily Unlife"

[O. Hinds]

Idea:
Thoughts on the Banner having developed primitive (WWI-era) spark-ignition internal combustion engines run on combustible gas (wood gas from the jungle, methane from organic waste decomposition, hydrogen from electrolyzing river water... there are a variety of potential sources)? It would likely only take one or two foals with the right talents. Due to limited material and intellectual resources, they wouldn't be as good as either Alliance cic or NCR steam, but the Banner doesn't have access to either of those. Trucks could be useful in a variety of ways, and string-kite airplanes, while mostly for the propaganda value of still having airplanes despite resource limitations, could be used for observation without having to pull the Banner's valuable griffins or even more valuable pegasi from other duties.

[Harmony Ltd.]

There's always the issue of material science. Metallurgy is important when you develop that kind of things from scratch. Though I suppose given what Fillydelphia specialized in when it was working under Red Eye, odds are good that there are a number of people in the Banner who are versed in those matters.

What kind of numbers can the Banner count on by 30SR? In term of Slaves as well as Free-people.

[O. Hinds]

Aye, material science and the qualities of the materials and machining available are probably the biggest reasons why the engines are so primitive.

...I'm not even sure how I could best make an estimate. Sorry.

[Vinylshadow]

Find a vague number and work from there...

A couple dozen hundreds...whatever that means

Edit:
Alright, nevermind XD

[Harmony Ltd.]

On another subject, I've started thinking about the subject of organized crime in the NCR.

I don't have anything solid yet, but I can already sense there exist a few families / clans / syndicate managing most of the shadow economy of the NCR.


What brought this was me thinking about Princesses' Heights in Manehatten. I started thinking that any clan powerful enough to keep control of even just a fraction of the juicy pie that is Manehatten and its docks, the NCR's main door to the wider world, has probably enough influence to be present in the rest of the NCR, and maybe even beyond.

So, basically, there is an opportunity to start designing a Mafia in this 'verse.

[O. Hinds]

Neat. Are all of these groups new, or are some of them "Wasteland aristocracy" who've managed to adapt to the changing times?

...Idea. I've been wondering, due the the engine discussion, where the Banner could get supplies (metals, gems, new useful plants to grow, etc.) other than crops and wood. You've just postulated organized crime in the NCR and maybe elsewhere on the Peninsula.
The mafia can supply NCR goods that fell off trucks and happened to have their serial numbers scratched off.
The Banner can supply its technical ("Hm, well, if this information you've gotten on their security systems is right..." or "Here are those new guns you wanted.") and martial expertise ("Don't turn your head sideways to fire, you idiot."), cropland for illegal plants, maybe even safe banking services for the underworld.
Thoughts?

(Oh, and of course, the NCR isn't likely to be too happy about this, but Rose Eye can happily point out that, hey, it's not as if she's mounting these operations; these are NCR citizens coming to her for help of their own free will, and is it her fault that the NCR's law enforcement is bad enough that it has so many criminals?)

[Harmony Ltd.]

I don't know how many of these organizations carry over from the Wasteland, but I have a hunch you may find at least one who started as a Red Eye-brand raider lord.

And probably also another in Junction, from some of the Stable 2 people (who are pretty much New Canterlot's aristocracy).

[O. Hinds]

Some coming from Stable 2? Interesting. What's the story behind that?

Also, no thoughts on that international black market idea? It's fine if you don't have anything to say, of course, but I'm wondering, given you didn't mention it at all, if you missed it or planned to address it later.

[Harmony Ltd.]

My above post was hastily written this morning, mostly to launch the discussion somewhat.

Anyway, the Stale 2 thing... It's probably a few elements from it who started using their position to do business in the NCR's underground, and who solidified their position from there; probably by using a web of influence they could have built through more legitimate business (the Stable 2 people are kind of the kings and queen of New Canterlot, after all, and this most probably offer them the most attentive ears of a number of people in the different Departments as well as in Parliament.).

Regarding the international black market, I really like the idea, yes.


Now, wouldn't it be funny to combine it and what I said above?...

[O. Hinds]

My above post was hastily written this morning, mostly to launch the discussion somewhat.

Ah, I see.

Anyway, the Stale 2 thing... It's probably a few elements from it who started using their position to do business in the NCR's underground, and who solidified their position from there; probably by using a web of influence they could have built through more legitimate business (the Stable 2 people are kind of the kings and queen of New Canterlot, after all, and this most probably offer them the most attentive ears of a number of people in the different Departments as well as in Parliament.).

What caused them to turn to crime, though?

Regarding the international black market, I really like the idea, yes.

Nice. There's the issue of transporting the goods, of course, but access to the ocean, which both the Banner and the Manehattan underworld have, opens a lot of possibilities.

Now, wouldn't it be funny to combine it and what I said above?...

What, you mean ponies from Stable 2 trading with Rose Eye? :D

[Harmony Ltd.]

Every basket has its rotten apples, and some people will always be drawn toward power, even if it means becoming a crime lord (or lady). In this case, it probably started with some contraband during the Bitter War, and spun from there - people specializing in making inventory disappear without leaving any trace. And crime begetting crime and power begetting power, almost 30 yeard later you have a crime syndicate spanning the whole NCR and beyond. (Or it could have started with a Walter White-like personnality, ala Breaking Bad, who's had enough playing Mister Nice Guy and now want to get it all, consequences be damned).

When it comes to transporting the goods, yeah, it might be a bit delicate, especially if the NCR has anything resembling coastal patrols. On the other hand... the Dragons and other powers on the East Coast may have a role to play there.

As for ponies from Stable 2 trading with Rose Eye, yeah, that was the idea. :)

[O. Hinds]

Hm, I suppose that that could work.

Interesting; you think that they might go around the Peninsula and use the east coast?

:)

Oh, on a possibly but potentially not different topic, any ideas for that big island in the southwest? There's an SPP tower on it, but other than that, I've at the moment no ideas regarding what might be there.

[Meleagridis]

I'd like to think when Fluttershy is freed, Rainbow may approach her, though poor Fluttershy may be frightened by her appearance.

That's assuming Rainbow survives the next day or two, of course. I kinda think it would be sad if she did -- all the others are waiting for her and Shy, and while Shy will eventually die of old age, Dash is functionally immortal...

Is she? Is there a confirmation on ghoul lifespan? I mean, we know it's longer than the average shmuck by at least 200 years, but are they immortal? In Fallout, Raul and Dean Domino both complained about age affecting them physically, not that we can draw too much from that seeing as FO:E ghouls are actual zombies. Still, I don't remember anyone specifying actual immortality or not. I always assumed that they suffered some kind of physical or mental deterioration just making them extremely long lived rather than living indefinitely. Several hundred years was my guess, and I never saw the ending as pretty. Either being unable to resist going feral or perhaps just losing control of some important bodily faculty... no idea as to what, though, since I don't think ghouls need to eat or breathe.

[O. Hinds]

Well, I've been assuming a full lack of aging assuming that going feral can be avoided.  Also, welcome back to the headcanon thread!
edit: Though they might eventually become drastically different people, depending on how their memories sort out.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Actually, I was thinking they might go through through the peninsula, under guise of trade with the powers of the East Coast, and then take the sea from there, where there is probably no NCR coastal patrols. The difficult part would be that these land routes would probably be under relatively tight controls at the border, so they'd have to get creative to pass.

No idea for the island yet. I'll put that on my to-think list.


And welcome back, Mel'. Regarding ghouls, my basic assumption was in a middle ground between Hinds and you:

They're functionally immortal, but they don't really regenerate from damage, or not perfectly, such that with time their organism will work less and less well. And their spirit as well is subject to degradation.

[O. Hinds]

Okay, hopefully I've calmed down enough from seeing FIMFiction's latest bloody "upgrade" to focus my mind on this now.

Aye, the borders are the problems using the land routes.

Thanks about the island.

Your ghoul idea… Hm, if you don't have them regenerating, what is their healing by radiation in your system?
Oh, and how are things different for Canterlot ghouls?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, they regenerate, as do Canterlot Ghouls, but not perfectly. Each time there's a tiny little bit that's lost in translation. Scars here, a minor mutation imperceptibly degrading the function of an organ there... Basically, entropy. They could still live thousand of years for all we know, but they're not immune to time.

Things like regeneration talismans or autodocs may help avoid the process (see: Geneighva, where the ghouls actually don't look quite ghoulish, even if they are obviously not "alive"), but without this, they will naturally tend to physically degrade, albeit extremely slowly, over time.

And I suppose it may even be worse for Canterlot Ghouls, as their accelerated and literally magical rate of regeneration, associated with the necrotic nature of the Pink Cloud, may completely mess up with the integrity of their regeneration process.

In short, Ghouls may not be completely immune to cancer.


On the mental side of things, Ghouls are at least blessed with the double-edged sword of their hyper-focus ability. As long as they can maintain said focus without succumbing to obsession, they'll be able to function somewhat normally, with a far reduced risk of falling to feralism (see: Ditzy).

The negative edge of that sword is if you remove the object of the ghoul's hyper-focus, you remove the foundation of their ability to keep their sanity, which might unravel the whole edifice (see: Sanguine).


At least that's how I see it.

[O. Hinds]

Ah, neat.

[SilentCarto]

Is she? Is there a confirmation on ghoul lifespan? I mean, we know it's longer than the average shmuck by at least 200 years, but are they immortal? In Fallout, Raul and Dean Domino both complained about age affecting them physically, not that we can draw too much from that seeing as FO:E ghouls are actual zombies. Still, I don't remember anyone specifying actual immortality or not. I always assumed that they suffered some kind of physical or mental deterioration just making them extremely long lived rather than living indefinitely. Several hundred years was my guess, and I never saw the ending as pretty. Either being unable to resist going feral or perhaps just losing control of some important bodily faculty... no idea as to what, though, since I don't think ghouls need to eat or breathe.

I largely agree. We can consider them immortal in the same way the Princesses are immortal -- we don't really know whether Celestia and Luna were truly immortal or just had lifespans measured in millenia, but that's why I said "functionally immortal". They might eventually fail, but that's all long-range speculation, so for our purposes they don't die of old age.

I agree that ghouls would be in danger of eventually going feral, which is a fate I really don't want to contemplate for the likes of Ditzy, Harpica, or Rainbow Dash. Nor do I like the prospect of them just going on and on until they finally decide they've had enough life...

As much as we root for our heroes to win and survive, it's kind of a bleak prospect.

[Meleagridis]

Here's a nasty thought: imagine if the reason that a ghoul (which, remember, is an actual dead zombie) never decomposes is because of the radiation? Imagine the pleasantly warm glow that heals them also preventing their flesh from rotting off their bones? The GEq clearing out radiation would mean that ghouls without their water shipments would slowly decompose alive. Sort of.

That's not my headcanon, though. While I never thought too deeply about it, I always assumed that creatures like ghouls would become frailer and frailer with age, more advanced stages of the aging we see in Raul. Eventually that frailty spells their doom in wasteland life, or even in domestic life in an ideal situation. The sort of thing where the slightest fall could break their brittle neck. And when that happened, it was considered their death by old age, far preferable to going feral.

By that sentiment, it wouldn't be all that terrible if Dash survived. It would be another few hundred years of waiting, but I'm under the impression that this isn't too much time in the ever after.

While we're on the topic, does anybody else have anything to say about any of the fantasy aging? Dragons, griffins, whatnot? Project Horizons recently reminded me that I don't exactly share everyone else's perceptions. Made it clear that PH Hellhounds had the standard several centuries of life package while I always assumed that deathclaws (and, by extension hellhounds) had fairly normal lifespans within the range of several decades.

[O. Hinds]

Now I'm wondering about the possibilities of giving ghouls cybernetics.

Made it clear that PH Hellhounds had the standard several centuries of life package while I always assumed that deathclaws (and, by extension hellhounds) had fairly normal lifespans within the range of several decades.

Oh? I don't remember that.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I know sand dogs have an extended lifespan, which I chalked up on their cybernetics, but I never caught on Hellhounds having a noticeably longer lifespan than ponies.

Source?

[SilentCarto]

Here's a nasty thought: imagine if the reason that a ghoul (which, remember, is an actual dead zombie) never decomposes is because of the radiation? Imagine the pleasantly warm glow that heals them also preventing their flesh from rotting off their bones? The GEq clearing out radiation would mean that ghouls without their water shipments would slowly decompose alive. Sort of.

I was under the impression the water shipments were because ghouls can't naturally heal from injuries without radiation. But, hey, you could be right -- maybe a ghoul going without rads is like a human going without vitamin C. There's no immediate effect, but over the long term, it's pretty bad for you.

That's not my headcanon, though. While I never thought too deeply about it, I always assumed that creatures like ghouls would become frailer and frailer with age, more advanced stages of the aging we see in Raul. Eventually that frailty spells their doom in wasteland life, or even in domestic life in an ideal situation. The sort of thing where the slightest fall could break their brittle neck. And when that happened, it was considered their death by old age, far preferable to going feral.

By that sentiment, it wouldn't be all that terrible if Dash survived. It would be another few hundred years of waiting, but I'm under the impression that this isn't too much time in the ever after.

This is true, but we've seen plenty of ghouls in Fallout who date back to the Great War that weren't getting creaky in the knees -- Carol from Underworld, Michael Masters in Warrington station, Desmond in Point Lookout, everyone in Necropolis, and so on. It may be Raul's high-impact heroing lifestyle that degraded his body like that rather than his age. Dean Domino does complain about his knees when you make him crouch, but on the other hand he's been hiding out from the Ghost People for 200 years, which might add up to much the same thing.

While we're on the topic, does anybody else have anything to say about any of the fantasy aging? Dragons, griffins, whatnot? Project Horizons recently reminded me that I don't exactly share everyone else's perceptions. Made it clear that PH Hellhounds had the standard several centuries of life package while I always assumed that deathclaws (and, by extension hellhounds) had fairly normal lifespans within the range of several decades.

I agree about the deathclaws, but I don't recall which hellhound explicitly dated back to the Last Day. The Sand Dogs are functionally immortal by dint of their cybernetics, of course...

[Harmony Ltd.]

I can imagine the Miliozi weting their panties at the idea of one day putting something like this in service in their fleet:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirov-class_battlecruiser

[Meleagridis]

Source?

Well, I don't think I'm making it up. But I never claimed to have a good memory. If I can find or remember the passage (because I'm pretty sure I remember getting disappointed when I found out) I'll quote it here.

Until then just assume I'm crazy.

The Sand Dogs are functionally immortal by dint of their cybernetics, of course...

I've wondered about this a lot, the degree of longevity cybernetics gives you. I'm still wondering how old Rover was when he got them, if any of his clear old age developed after the robot parts came in. I try not to think about this in the same fashion I don't think too hard about magical radiation, but it's just too hard not to imagine time leaving behind the biology and coming out with nothing but a few rusted limbs.

And yeah, when you bring those others up it does seem that ghouls might be eternally spry. Or, at the very least, not prone to much wear and tear for at least 200 years.

They'd make nice retainers for that dragon place Harmony brought up a while ago. Not quite as much of a lengthy viewpoint but far more than the average shmuck.

[O. Hinds]

I was under the impression the water shipments were because ghouls can't naturally heal from injuries without radiation. But, hey, you could be right -- maybe a ghoul going without rads is like a human going without vitamin C. There's no immediate effect, but over the long term, it's pretty bad for you.

Why not both?

I can imagine the Miliozi weting their panties at the idea of one day putting something like this in service in their fleet:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirov-class_battlecruiser

Well, I don't think it especially likely they wear panties, but the sentiment, quite possibly. I think that they'd likely want a heavy gun (probably a railgun, coilgun, or magical equivalent) aboard in addition to the missiles, though.

Well, I don't think I'm making it up. But I never claimed to have a good memory. If I can find or remember the passage (because I'm pretty sure I remember getting disappointed when I found out) I'll quote it here.

Until then just assume I'm crazy.

Sorry.

[SilentCarto]

I've wondered about this a lot, the degree of longevity cybernetics gives you. I'm still wondering how old Rover was when he got them, if any of his clear old age developed after the robot parts came in. I try not to think about this in the same fashion I don't think too hard about magical radiation, but it's just too hard not to imagine time leaving behind the biology and coming out with nothing but a few rusted limbs.

I imagine an otherwise unaugmented being would do just as well, given an implanted healing talisman and uninterrupted power supply.

I was under the impression the water shipments were because ghouls can't naturally heal from injuries without radiation. But, hey, you could be right -- maybe a ghoul going without rads is like a human going without vitamin C. There's no immediate effect, but over the long term, it's pretty bad for you.

Why not both?

I didn't discount that possibility.

Source?

Well, I don't think I'm making it up. But I never claimed to have a good memory. If I can find or remember the passage (because I'm pretty sure I remember getting disappointed when I found out) I'll quote it here.

Until then just assume I'm crazy.

I know that feel.

Now that I've got some time to search, the albino hellhound (did he EVER get named?) said of Barking Saw, "That old dog might have the best eyes en the Wasteland, but he’s old und senile und, best of all, stone deaf." And the albino himself is referred to as "elderly" in the epilogue set only ten years later, so I'd assume hellhounds are not significantly longer-lived than standard diamond dogs.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Had a thought.

You know how there's a saying going "stubborn as a mule".

What if one of the racial traits of donkeys was that once they get their mind to do something, they'll try to do it and shrug failed attempts however many times it takes for them to succeed. (Exaggerated, but you get the idea)

Basically, they've already got the hyper-focus thing of ghouls without being dead yet.


Now imagine a ghoul donkey. Oh boy...

[O. Hinds]

Hm. Could be interesting.

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