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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

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[GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion - Page 3 Empty Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

Post by CamoBadger Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:18 pm

Derpmind wrote:
You ever wonder what would happen after a thermonuclear war? What if we add some super-mutagen? Maybe an elder thing from beyond the black between the stars?

Mutilating a person is horrible. Mutilating a fictional character, not so much. With a fictional character, when something bad happens often the default response is no response. Think of the hero of a generic action movie mowing down dozens of 'bad guys'. Do you honestly care at all about the bad guys being shot, de-limbed and exploded most of the time? You have to build sympathy for that character first, build up that believability because characters aren't real and we know it. You're treating our academi-ish discussion like we're considering hurting a real person. We aren't. Luna isn't real, and she's not going to feel pain or anything else from loosing an already-imaginary wing or horn until we make her real.
I agree with all of this.

Except that Luna didn't lose a wing or her horn, because in the original fic, Nightseer was wearing her skull and bones as an outfit. Her wings were mentioned specifically, and there was no mention of a missing horn.
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Post by Kippershy Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:32 pm

Derpmind wrote:
Kippershy wrote:
Somber wrote:What if Luna lost her wings in a terrorist attack?  Or her horn?
Why? Why is this even a question? Why is this something you think up? I'm not going to call you names, but I want to understand, why do you think of these things? What draws your mind to it and what makes all this mutilation so fascinating to you, Somber?
You start with mutilating Blackjack all the time, which is okay and all, but then it gets to the point where she becomes rape Jesus and such and it's a little weird in retrospect.
You tear off one of Glory's wings not all too long before that particular act.
Then you fuck around and say that Littlepip should've been raped over on the TVtropes forums, claiming it would've done her character good (somehow)...

...And now, well, I won't say you're planning on adding this to the story and I'm not trying to imply that, but you're thinking about the very act.
You hate Luna, don't you? You always treat Luna like shit, but this? ...This is worrying. What is it that draws you to (the thoughts of) such acts all the time?

In before:
>you refuse to even acknowledge me
>someone takes offense on your behalf
>you take offense at me asking
>you message me with yet more reveals to try answer me

...Well, no. Scratch that last one. I don't think you'd repeat that little maneuver.

You ever wonder what would happen after a thermonuclear war? What if we add some super-mutagen? Maybe an elder thing from beyond the black between the stars?

Mutilating a person is horrible. Mutilating a fictional character, not so much. With a fictional character, when something bad happens often the default response is no response. Think of the hero of a generic action movie mowing down dozens of 'bad guys'. Do you honestly care at all about the bad guys being shot, de-limbed and exploded most of the time? You have to build sympathy for that character first, build up that believability because characters aren't real and we know it. You're treating our academi-ish discussion like we're considering hurting a real person. We aren't. Luna isn't real, and she's not going to feel pain or anything else from loosing an already-imaginary wing or horn until we make her real.

I understand where you're coming from, but you miss my focus. My focus is on why is it these types of mutilations that Somber loves oh so much?
It's not normal. I understand he's writing in a post apocalyptic setting and fair play that there's going to be some real grimy moments, but Somber seems almost fixated on having traumatising mutilation always be involved and it's worrying, to be honest.
It's as if he simply can't go without thinking of ways to be brutal to others, even if they are fictional characters.
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Post by Derpmind Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:47 pm

Kippershy wrote:I understand where you're coming from, but you miss my focus. My focus is on why is it these types of mutilations that Somber loves oh so much?
It's not normal. I understand he's writing in a post apocalyptic setting and fair play that there's going to be some real grimy moments, but Somber seems almost fixated on having traumatising mutilation always be involved and it's worrying, to be honest.
It's as if he simply can't go without thinking of ways to be brutal to others, even if they are fictional characters.

These types of mutilations? What kind of mutilation isn't traumatizing? Injuries range between scratches and death, and with the very frequent occurrence of injuries in these types of stories a few that qualify as terrifically horrid are going to happen. Really, what's more worrying is that you keep on expressing concern for Somber's mental health when what you're really doing is making a mountain out of a molehill.
It's as if you simply can't go without criticizing stories without implying that the author's insane.
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Post by Kippershy Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Spoiler:
It's not so much the fact its used at all as it is the amount of it.
Coming up out of the blue and asking what if Luna had her horn* or wings blown apart by a terrorist act?

edit: just realised I wrote own rather than horn. My bad.


Last edited by Kippershy on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Vergil Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:11 pm

@Derpmind: I KNEW IT!

Ch.25: "Then he lifted Marmlade's PipBuck with a little half smile."

Missing an 'a' in Marm's name there iirc.
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Post by O. Hinds Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:20 pm

Vergil wrote:@Derpmind: I KNEW IT!

Ch.25: "Then he lifted Marmlade's PipBuck with a little half smile."

Missing an 'a' in Marm's name there iirc.
Ah, thank you.
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Post by StoneSlinger88 Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:52 pm

Kippershy wrote:
Spoiler:
It's not so much the fact its used at all as it is the amount of it.
Coming up out of the blue and asking what if Luna had her horn* or wings blown apart by a terrorist act?

edit: just realised I wrote own rather than horn. My bad.

Considering all the stuff we come up with, it must've rubbed off on Somber.
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Post by Guest Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:29 pm

Kippershy wrote:
Spoiler:

While I think this is an overreaction. There was a time Somber didn't go to the hospital because he simply couldn't afford it and it turned out to be something serious when he got the donations to go.

Could be he's genuinely worried. It is the time of year people tend to be lacking in funds the most though I personally don't think the question was anything to worry about.

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Post by Icy Shake Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:26 pm

Kippershy wrote:
Spoiler:
It's not so much the fact its used at all as it is the amount of it.
Coming up out of the blue and asking what if Luna had her horn* or wings blown apart by a terrorist act?

edit: just realised I wrote own rather than horn. My bad.
It wasn't out of the blue. It was in the middle of a discussion about whether the Eclipse model cyberization was designed with the in-development IMP alicorns in mind or Princess Luna (or, later, simply as the end-of-the-line super-soldier model for unicorns, pegasi, and earth ponies), so offering a rationale why there might be people designing it with her in mind was entirely pertinent. It would be startling if nobody in the government were thinking along those lines after Shattered Hoof Ridge, and by extension, it's something that Somber has to think about to make the setting the best and most consistent it can be.
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Post by Guest Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:08 pm

Icy Shake wrote: the setting the best and most consistent it can be.

Isn't suggesting a horn needing to be replaced with cybernetics inconsistent? A horn has been shown to regrow twice. Once in FO:E and once in PH.

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Post by Moodyman90 Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:09 pm

Personally I thought the metal horn was more for protection than replacement.
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Post by Icy Shake Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:10 pm

Last wrote:
Icy Shake wrote: the setting the best and most consistent it can be.

Isn't suggesting a horn needing to be replaced with cybernetics inconsistent? A horn has been shown to regrow twice. Once in FO:E and once in PH.
The wings and general body still apply, and even with the knowledge that the horn would return . . .
Moodyman90 wrote:Personally I thought the metal horn was more for protection than replacement.
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Post by Guest Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:16 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
Last wrote:
Icy Shake wrote: the setting the best and most consistent it can be.

Isn't suggesting a horn needing to be replaced with cybernetics inconsistent? A horn has been shown to regrow twice. Once in FO:E and once in PH.
The wings and general body still apply, and even with the knowledge that the horn would return . . .
Moodyman90 wrote:Personally I thought the metal horn was more for protection than replacement.

Fair enough, but for morale purposes that's a scar. A leader that returns the same is better than a leader that returns scarred. The metal horn would just be "Hey, remember when I got this blown off?" you can do it sure, but in my opinion it is not the ideal option.

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Post by Icy Shake Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:19 pm

Last wrote:
Icy Shake wrote:
Last wrote:
Icy Shake wrote: the setting the best and most consistent it can be.

Isn't suggesting a horn needing to be replaced with cybernetics inconsistent? A horn has been shown to regrow twice. Once in FO:E and once in PH.
The wings and general body still apply, and even with the knowledge that the horn would return . . .
Moodyman90 wrote:Personally I thought the metal horn was more for protection than replacement.

Fair enough, but for morale purposes that's a scar. A leader that returns the same is better than a leader that returns scarred. The metal horn would just be "Hey, remember when I got this blown off?" you can do it sure, but in my opinion it is not the ideal option.
Maybe, but then again, they weren't exactly rushing to make people forget about Big Macintosh. Image could easily spin that into pro-war propaganda.

The issue I tended to have with it, though, especially the suggestion that it could be used as a way to make her more intimidating, is that Luna is a shapeshifter.
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Post by Guest Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:29 pm

Icy Shake wrote:
Maybe, but then again, they weren't exactly rushing to make people forget about Big Macintosh. Image could easily spin that into pro-war propaganda.

The issue I tended to have with it, though, especially the suggestion that it could be used as a way to make her more intimidating, is that Luna is a shapeshifter.

That's fair. Still think they'd avoid it as much as they could. I'd think regrowing would generally be preferable to replacing.

I'd forgotten that. She did shapeshift in the story didn't she? I was gonna say that was just a thing in the show but she did turn into eclipse. Having nightmare moon in place would be intimidating enough for the Zebras I'd have to wonder if Equestria would understand she was just putting on an act. I'd think so.

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Post by TheWanderingZebra Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:00 pm

Kippershy wrote:Guess we ought to disregard the fact that Somber hasn't (or hadn't, recently) had his medication for a while because of the price...?
Excuse me, but are you attacking an author based on the fact that he has a condition?

Yes, people are entitled to their own opinions. Whether you like it or not, I have to respect that some people might not enjoy something that I do ... but attacking an author's mental disorder is where people should draw the line. You basically saying that it is his condition that's at fault for you not liking PH. And that is in itself offensive to me and anyone else who has a disorder.

Maybe that wasn't what you intended, but it wouldn't change the fact that it's still offensive. You can dislike the story for BJ being "OP" or "A bad OC" ... but what you did was just something I can't tolerate.
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Post by SilentCarto Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:17 pm

FeatherDust wrote:And the barrel has an arrow toward the shooting end with the label "Do not examine this too closely".
Yes, exactly!

FeatherDust wrote:
Power Ponies:
Genius!
Power Ponies:

Moodyman90 wrote:I may be misinterpreting the question, but Pipbucks probably have a better explanation than Pipboys when it comes to VATS and all. In the very least Pipbucks run on a Spell matrix which makes more sense to me since using it causes the Pipbuck to cast a short term speed spell on the user...
I could explain away VATS in Fallout as the game-interface expression of a targeting assist system, like a smartgun in Shadowrun, while I think of SATS as a spell that speeds up her mind so she can consider her actions at the speed of reflexes. But I'm not really asking "how does SATS slow everything down?" so much as "How does it know you want to use it in the first place?" Pip typically just says she 'dropped into SATS', which makes it sound like a purely mental action -- which means the PipBuck has some rudimentary capacity for mind-reading.
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Post by SilentCarto Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:25 pm

Kippershy wrote:In before:
>you refuse to even acknowledge me
>someone takes offense on your behalf
>you take offense at me asking
In before the offensive thing I just said offends people!

The hell.
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Post by Vergil Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:55 am

Sekashi in Ch.26: "Have ever heard something so silly?"
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Post by CamoBadger Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:14 am

Kippershy wrote:In before:
>you refuse to even acknowledge me
>someone takes offense on your behalf
>you take offense at me asking
Ya'll need to talk to Robo about this if you have a problem, because that post constitutes typical criticism for me at work so I'm having a hard time seeing an issue.
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Post by Somber Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:31 am

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilse_Koch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Abraham_Lincoln
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscone%E2%80%93Milk_assassinations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Julius_Caesar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_drawn,_and_quartered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

You think I'm fucked up, Kippershy?  I got NOTHING on the fucked up shit real life comes up with all the time.
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Post by CamoBadger Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:34 am

Somber wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

You think I'm fucked up, Kippershy?  I got NOTHING on the fucked up shit real life comes up with all the time.
Really now? You list nazi experiments, the Holocaust, assassinations, etc. and then put this on there with that stuff? Yeah, this is SO horrible.
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Post by Stringtheory Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:37 am

CamoBadger wrote:
Somber wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

You think I'm fucked up, Kippershy?  I got NOTHING on the fucked up shit real life comes up with all the time.
Really now? You list nazi experiments, the Holocaust, assassinations, etc. and then put this on there with that stuff? Yeah, this is SO horrible.
*sigh* lets not get political with this...it was going to end badly, now it's only going to get worse...
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Post by TheWanderingZebra Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:43 am

stringtheory wrote:
CamoBadger wrote:
Somber wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

You think I'm fucked up, Kippershy?  I got NOTHING on the fucked up shit real life comes up with all the time.
Really now? You list nazi experiments, the Holocaust, assassinations, etc. and then put this on there with that stuff? Yeah, this is SO horrible.
*sigh* lets not get political with this...it was going to end badly, now it's only going to get worse...
Let's not.
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Post by Vergil Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:44 am

Especially not today, thanks.
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Post by WavemasterRyx Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:54 am

*sighs softly*

Well I guess it's not really a good time to post, but I finally got the rest of the commentary for the chapter done...

*nuzzles Somber just barely*

Chapter 62b Commentary part 2:

happy Hearth's Warming...
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Post by O. Hinds Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:34 am

WavemasterRyx wrote:*sighs softly*

Well I guess it's not really a good time to post, but I finally got the rest of the commentary for the chapter done...

*nuzzles Somber just barely*

Chapter 62b Commentary part 2:

happy Hearth's Warming...
Nice to have your commentary, WavemasterRyx. :)
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Post by O. Hinds Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:37 am

CamoBadger wrote:
Somber wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

You think I'm fucked up, Kippershy?  I got NOTHING on the fucked up shit real life comes up with all the time.
Really now? You list nazi experiments, the Holocaust, assassinations, etc. and then put this on there with that stuff? Yeah, this is SO horrible.
...It's my impression that adding that last one was a joke.
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Post by Train Dodger Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:48 am

Early Christmas present for you guys! Some more proofreading:

Chapter 2:

Chapter 6:

Blackjack takes down some slavers, has a showdown in Megamart with Deus, and gets a pretty big bounty put on her head. All in a day's work:

Chapter 7:
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Post by Somber Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:28 am

O. Hinds wrote:
CamoBadger wrote:
Somber wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

You think I'm fucked up, Kippershy?  I got NOTHING on the fucked up shit real life comes up with all the time.
Really now? You list nazi experiments, the Holocaust, assassinations, etc. and then put this on there with that stuff? Yeah, this is SO horrible.
...It's my impression that adding that last one was a joke.
That would be correct sir.
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