Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[O. Hinds]

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[O. Hinds]

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:D

[Somber]

There.  Finally got in.  Sigh.  Sorry for being so long.

There's one other reason that I believe the Glory / Splendid union was plausible beyond hormones.  She's in Dash's body, and she's been influenced by the body's wiring and inclination, and Rainbow Dash in FoE was straight.  So it pushed her to a yes.  If she was in her own body she would have been far more resistant and would have said no, like she's said every time she cycled back home.  And if she were returned to her normal self, she would not want a repeat, ever.  She's not bi.  If she's still rainbow dash next year, she'd be much more assertive in saying no.  Also, remember, Splendid is a charismatic fellow and sees nothing wrong with bedding a reincarnation of a ministry mare.

Anyway, sorry.  I hope this doesn't become a legate thing, because I can't change it much.  I can add that comment about Dash's body if it helps though.

[O. Hinds]

Copied and modified from email:
I don't think that that matters too much. Our information that she was straight comes from other characters saying that, for one thing, and I'm not sure how much bleedover there'd be anyway. But I suppose that the belief in Rainbow Dash being straight might be having some effect on Glory's thought processes, yes.

I hope this doesn't become a legate thing, because I can't change it much. I can add that comment about Dash's body if it helps though.

Eh... We can do it if you think we need to, but I'd rather not. I think that it's entirely plausible as is, without further clarification.

[StoneSlinger88]

Don't fret it, Somber. Hell, I stay up past 2:00 AM and I'm open to just about any idea someone throws at me, even without that hormone-y stuff and two decades of repression.

And from what I understand, Glory's mind is in Rainbow Dash's brain-- so it's busy rewiring itself to Glory while leaving traces of RD's persona, which would include sexual orientation.

[Guest]

Thanks Somber. That actually makes me feel a lot better about it.

[Icy Shake]

I hope so, too, because it seem--to me--to have been a perfectly reasonable thing to have happened, and most of what you brought up was already in the chapter.

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[Guest]

Thank you for clarifying that, Somber. I feel a bit better about as well. A little uncomfortable, but still better. Again, thank you very much.

[Moodyman90]

Times like this I wonder if stuff like that just doesn't bother me or if I just pick up on different cues others do.

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[cb5]

There.  Finally got in.  Sigh.  Sorry for being so long.

There's one other reason that I believe the Glory / Splendid union was plausible beyond hormones.  She's in Dash's body, and she's been influenced by the body's wiring and inclination, and Rainbow Dash in FoE was straight.  So it pushed her to a yes.  If she was in her own body she would have been far more resistant and would have said no, like she's said every time she cycled back home.  And if she were returned to her normal self, she would not want a repeat, ever.  She's not bi.  If she's still rainbow dash next year, she'd be much more assertive in saying no.  Also, remember, Splendid is a charismatic fellow and sees nothing wrong with bedding a reincarnation of a ministry mare.

Anyway, sorry.  I hope this doesn't become a legate thing, because I can't change it much.  I can add that comment about Dash's body if it helps though.

I haven't read the chapter yet, but I'm going to have to disagree here from purely a medical standpoint.  With sexuality and the kinsey scale sexuality goes from 0 to 6 and doesn't actually change, rather tastes change.  Like I'm a 3, but even though I outright despise camp men I am still a 3.  Even if I were to switch bodies with someone who is a 0, I would still be a 3 and they would still be a 0 even if we had each other's brains.  Someone finds out that they're bisexual or gay, you don't become bisexual or gay.

HOWEVER, very very few people are 0's or 6's.  Most often when someone says "I'm straight" they mean they're a 1, or when someone says "I'm gay" they mean they're a 5.  If someone swears up and down they're 100% straight or gay and have never had any thoughts on the subject otherwise yeah they're full of shit.  It's also why you always hear about "This person who tried to cure gays came out as gay/bisexual" so often is because "Me thinks my lady doth protest too much", in other words the more and more someone feels the need to defend their sexuality the more and more likely they're not what sexuality they claim to be and don't want to admit it to themselves and/or others.

[Guest]

Chapter reactions and thoughts time.

Right here!:

EDIT: One thing, BTW cb5, is that even the Kinsey scale doesn't cover sexuality accurately, though it's a good tool in some cases (for instance, this case). It's like the Terry Pratchett explanation style: something that doesn't even remotely resemble how a thing actually works, but is a very good lie for the purposes of understanding the gist in this specific situation. For instance: are you attracted to bits, or behavior, or both, or neither?

[cb5]

EDIT: One thing, BTW cb5, is that even the Kinsey scale doesn't cover sexuality accurately, though it's a good tool in some cases (for instance, this case). It's like the Terry Pratchett explanation style: something that doesn't even remotely resemble how a thing actually works, but is a very good lie for the purposes of understanding the gist in this specific situation

Oh so like ALL OF SCIENCE TO HAVE EVER EXISTED?  The blunt truth is that all of the study of science and math and such doesn't actually exist, like there is no math god granting math to the universe and without it there would be no math, rather science, math and such is the tools we use for understanding the universe and how it works.  We create science, math, biology, sociology, psychology, and all fields of science to understand the world.  The only things that actually exist are the particles, waves and energy in our universe.  From a completely objective standpoint we don't actually exist either and are just a collection of particles and we are a figment of our own imagination.

So pretty much you threw out all logic and reason in a literal sense to come up with a counterpoint.






Anyways before we get more off topic I can't wait to read the new chapter tomorrow.


Also Somber I remember last time you were here you were saying you were looking for a job.  Did you find a job?  Are things looking up yet?

[Guest]

Spoiler:

[Guest]

EDIT: One thing, BTW cb5, is that even the Kinsey scale doesn't cover sexuality accurately, though it's a good tool in some cases (for instance, this case). It's like the Terry Pratchett explanation style: something that doesn't even remotely resemble how a thing actually works, but is a very good lie for the purposes of understanding the gist in this specific situation

Oh so like ALL OF SCIENCE TO HAVE EVER EXISTED?  The blunt truth is that all of the study of science and math and such doesn't actually exist, like there is no math god granting math to the universe and without it there would be no math, rather science, math and such is the tools we use for understanding the universe and how it works.  We create science, math, biology, sociology, psychology, and all fields of science to understand the world.  The only things that actually exist are the particles, waves and energy in our universe.  From a completely objective standpoint we don't actually exist either and are just a collection of particles and we are a figment of our own imagination.

So pretty much you threw out all logic and reason in a literal sense to come up with a counterpoint.

Perhaps I misspoke? I was alluding to the fact that the Kinsey scale is of limited use when talking about pansexuals, asexuals, demisexuals, transsexuals at any stage; people like that and people who like people like that... When all you're talking about is  degrees of gay/bi/straight, then it can be useful; when you get more complicated than that, you want something else. It's like... I forget what the technical word for this theory was, but it's a theory of consciousness that allows for multiple descriptive levels depending on what you're trying to do. Thought/free will exists at the uppermost, least descriptive level, the next one is biology/mechanical, and then you have the particle physics as the most descriptive. But just because the particle physics model is the only one that's actually accurate to what's REALLY going on, from an imaginary omniscient observer's perspective (and even then only theoretically, because we aren't imaginary omniscient observers and all that stuff is, like you say, based on how we observe and interact with the universe... but it's still a pretty safe assumption to assume that we're not being tricked by a mischievous imp or living in the Matrix), doesn't mean the other two levels aren't useful at describing reality. But if you go looking for consciousness at the particle level, you're going to be disappointed - it doesn't hold up.

A less complicated analogy would be, say, a computer. Most users just need to know what the screen, mouse, and keyboard are and do. A level further would be knowing how the different parts connect to each other, and a level further beyond that would be the manufacture of circuits and logic bridges and that stuff. I guess a level beyond that would be quantum computing or some shenanigans like that. Getting off topic.

Anyway, point is, I'm absolutely not throwing out all of science and reason, just acknowledging that different descriptive levels exist, and the Kinsey scale exists at a level that doesn't describe everyone. It's certainly more descriptive than a bunch of popular ones, mind you. That's all I'm trying to say. Are we talking past one another? I have a hunch we may be. I'm not trying to be argumentative or dismissive at all, I just find this interesting!

To bring this back to Glory, I'm not sure how useful thinking about the transformation and its effects in terms of real-world physical and medical stuff really would be, since it's purely a philosophical question at this point - nobody has spontaneously switched into a different body before. That said, PH gets to do this because it takes place in a universe in which souls exist as part of the (but not the sole) seat of consciousness. The way this works isn't exactly defined to the point that I'd be comfortable making sweeping statements, and furthermore we don't know if Glory's brain transformed into Dash's (not that the brain is the sole seat of consciousness in reality, either, but it's certainly extremely important). I suspect it didn't, because souls have been stated to not quite retain memory on their own, exactly, IIRC. This being poison joke, of course, it could have simply transformed certain bits and of the brain while leaving the sense of self and memories of Glory intact. Again, though, this is all just suspicion.

[O. Hinds]

Spoiler:

But said relationship is with Ms. "You mean monogamy isn't deviant?" Blackjack. Which means that, in her internal balance of motivations, instead of "I must be true to my marefriend!", she gets "I... should be true to my marefriend... but it's not as if she'd really mind, probably... and she slept with somepony else first... and my hormones are telling me that he has a really hot plot..."

[O. Hinds]

Right, I've just been through and put in the list!

We can hire mercenaries to take the Paradise Mall back from the slavers inhabiting it and lease it to the Finders.

Isn't the third sister a Finder herself? Is she still in charge of Pardise? (I guess the slavers took over from her, maybe? If so, does that make Bottlecap the winner?)

Paradise used to be run by one of the sisters, but Red Eye took over I forget how many chapters ago.

[Guest]

I guess I just really want Blackjack to sacrifice for Glory just this once. I mean Glory has given up so much for BJ her cutiemark, her family, her name, her wing and her appearance. 

Somber asked at one point what we would like to see with PH in the coming chapters, at the time I didn't know what I wanted to see. I do now. 

I want BJ with another partner (stallion/mare doesn't matter really)  Glory walks on the pair and I want BJ to notice Glory's upset despite acting like she isn't and I want BJ to sacrifice a part of herself for her lover. 

I fully understand PH is not about what I want. I understand that it's not likely something many of you want, just thought I throw it out there for anyone who might agree. 

I just really don't like where their relationship is heading. I believe if it continues Glory will be giving up what little remains of her identity.

[Guest]

@Last
Speaking as someone who has zero problems with polyamory (albeit not someone who has any particular interest in it), I agree with this sentiment. =P Though tbh I'd rather even that Blackjack just decided on her own, even if Glory says she's okay with it, to abstain from bonking other ponies until Glory has made up her mind properly about it, because it definitely doesn't seem like she has. It doesn't need to be a big thing, just an understated and tender sort of scene. That would be sweet; I don't know if it'd be good for the story, but it's something that would be nice. Advice for Blackjack rather than advice for Somber, if you will.

That said, this also sort of runs into the problem of Blackjack pulling the martyr thing, and runs contrary to what the two of them have communicated as their intentions and needs going forward. Neither of those things are super great. And I do think that monogamy is not so central a part of Glory's identity that losing that will send her over the edge more than any other thing.

EDIT: I remember the name of the thing I was talking about earlier! It's Daniel Dennett's Intentional Stance. Even if it's not your cup of tea, it's nice to have a clever reason to swear at your computer like it's being intentionally thick when it won't connect to a wireless network. =P

[WavemasterRyx]

*hugs Somber gently*

I think it was a great chapter, Somber. Thank you again for all the hard work that you put into writing it, and thank you to Hinds and Bronode for your help.

Initial thoughts:

As always, I shall try my best to get a full commentary done soon, and probably fail, as always.
Try to take care, Somber. I hope things get better for you soon. *hugs again*

[O. Hinds]

*hugs Somber gently*

I think it was a great chapter, Somber. Thank you again for all the hard work that you put into writing it, and thank you to Hinds and Bronode for your help.

Initial thoughts:

As always, I shall try my best to get a full commentary done soon, and probably fail, as always.
Try to take care, Somber. I hope things get better for you soon. *hugs again*

I thought that you'd like the Boo. Then again, though, I pretty much always expect you to like Boo. :)

Oh, yes, I actually had a very cute mental image in your art style while working on the chapter. Boo's head slooowly rising above the edge of the desk, first her ears, then her big eyes, and probably accompanied by a cartoon sound effect.

[Evilgidgit]

Yay, new chapter!

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[Harmony Ltd.]

RE BlackJack's choice :

personally, I believe at this point it's down to either Grace or a Wild Card - meaning she either choose Grace of the three choices offered to her, or she takes a metaphorical third, well, technically fourth option.

[SilentCarto]

4:
"“Triage... is going to be... disappointed...” I muttered as I struggled to regenerate my injuries.  Despite it all, I smiled.  I hadn’t killed her, and that might come to bite me in the ass later... but lying there in the Hoofington rain, the blood being washed from me... I suspected that Twilight and her friends would say I’d won.  Heh... I could have hopped on my broadcaster and... wait...
    I sat up with a groan, staring straight ahead.  My broadcaster!  Why hadn’t I thought of it while I was inside?  I could have told everypony about--
    The Goddess’s smugness enveloped me, and I imagined a condescending pat on my head.  Of course we, were going away now.  And she wasn’t going to let me go back into the Enervation field.  Oooh...
    ‘I hate you...’ I thought viciously at the consciousness in the back of my mind.
    ‘Lesser beings usually do,’ she replied grandly.  I muttered to myself as we returned."

That still doesn't quite make sense. While BJ was "out", Trixie had her running in and out of the E-field. If it cut off Trixie's ability to manipulate BJ and Trixie couldn't implant ongoing instructions, BJ should have suddenly frozen in the middle of the E-field until the memory orb ran out. And if she could implant instructions, then one of those instructions could easily have been "don't think about your broadcaster" or "keep on not telling anyone". At any rate, I thought Trixie laid that down as a standing order way back when BJ had her "Unity moment" over a box of magazines in the Star House.

56 is up!

Augh! Right when I was starting my game! And today, I gotta be somewhere in two hours. Guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow...

[Derpmind]

Chapter reactions and thoughts time.

Right here!:

Spoiler:

Edit: Ok, wow, I was looking for a picture to go with my post and I found this instead.

Big pictures:

[Kippershy]

So, not finished yet but almost there. The chapter hasn't been as interesting for me as they usually are, and there has been multiple times where I've questioned what particular phrases you use, mostly revolving around the way they feel like Blackjack is telling the story to us as another character, not narrating it to herself.

And a typo which has no doubt been picked up on a million times now:

"and I couple practically feel" - could practically...



edit 1:
Not so keen on the text in brackets part. I know I did this early on in my own story, but since then I've seen it as a "dirty" way of narrating which is more showing us what happened, not telling us using description. I could be wrong, it could be a perfectly acceptable way to express a point and you might be right in doing this, but it feels out of place as I don't recall you ever using that method before.
But then again, you are an English teacher and I'm just some guy over the internet, so that might just be me.


edit: done.
Don't really have anything to say.

[Moodyman90]

Granted this is just me and isn't meant to be a prediction or a suggestion, but if I was in Blackjack's place, and had her reputation, I would...

Long Ramble:

Once again, just what I would do, and most likely not what's going to happen. And actual prediction from me is that there's going to be at least one major fight somewhere before or after Blackjack makes her choice. If the Society is still standing after it is up to Somber.
And on the topic of Order versus Virtue, I hope what I would do would set an Order that would give way to Virtue without its being hallowed.

[WavemasterRyx]

I thought that you'd like the Boo.  Then again, though, I pretty much always expect you to like Boo.  :)

Oh, yes, I actually had a very cute mental image in your art style while working on the chapter.  Boo's head slooowly rising above the edge of the desk, first her ears, then her big eyes, and probably accompanied by a cartoon sound effect.

Heh, well as far as bets go, that one's about the safest bet you could make.

It's certainly a shame I can't do smooth animations like that, there certainly are plenty of moments in the story that would warrant it.

@Derpmind:

[Train Dodger]

I disagree here. I read it as the second one being part of "You trust everypony." Sorry.

No big deal. I like that line just fine the way it is. I hardly expect all of these edits to be accepted. It's entirely up to you to decide which ones to keep and which ones to toss. A good portion of these edit suggestions are borderline cases, anyway. Part of being thorough. I do go a little bit overboard, sometimes, but that's just because I don't want to feel like I'm missing anything that may need your attention.

Huh, just what the heck is a "micromagic cell", anyway? Something kinda like an MFC? I noticed that tidbit was cut completely from the description of Blackjack's haul.

Chapter 2:

Chapter 5:

Now these are forty foals you don't want as playmates:

Chapter 6:

[Luminous Lead]

One spelling error I noticed near the start.
"And shortly before he did"
should be
"And shortly before he died"
That's a clever turn of phrase, but I guess it went over my head the first four times.

So, this was a really good chapter, lots of humour.  Loved that first assassination attempt, eating the knife was a really nice touch (Blackjack should do that more often, eventually her foes won't have much to shoot her with!).

Blackjack got new family!  Too bad they all want to take her spot as head don.  Gotta say that Grace probably had the best chance of getting through, until Lancer showed up (man, next chapter is going to be hilarious if I understood that foreshadowing correctly!)  Splendid's plan was pretty much M#7's Red Eye, and Charm was (as Scotch so aptly pointed out) pretty much the neo-Overmare.  Yuck to both.

I, for one, welcome the new Zebra overlord.

[StoneSlinger88]

She could give the crown to Lancer!

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