Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[Harmony Ltd.]

Now, regarding Fallout Equestria, imagine that the Ministry of Wartime Technology was at the same time the one to issue gears to the equestrian armed forces, AND directed by a council of industrials who were the ones making money out of this gear being sold.

[Harmony Ltd.]

This is pretty much how I imagine the whole process behind the creation of the Steel Rangers armors went, with Applejack in the role of the Generals : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

[StoneSlinger88]

Steel Ranger armor was designed specifically to provide extreme combat abilities to individuals. In this regard, I see it very similar to Starship Troopers: Invasion armor. Maybe a cross between the common troopers' armor (which really wasn't all that effective against the bugs' attacks, but well-suited to space combat against them):

Spoiler:

And the larger mech armor with built-in weapons, which is just plain freaking awesome to see used in the film:

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

Steel Ranger armor was designed specifically to provide extreme combat abilities to individuals.

Oh, I don't doubt that. In fact, it's even outstanding in that regard.

What I was referring to with my comment making a parallel with the video above, is that memory orb scene in the original Fallout Equestria, where after what IIRC is a few years of developments, Applejack finally reveal the production model of the Steel Ranger Armor.

Her comments (paraphrased : "We all worked very very hard on it") seemed to suggest to me that they went back to the drawing boards a non-negligible number of times ; and the sheer amount of features cramped into such a little package screams "feature creep" to me.

The fact that the whole project is Applejack's own way of mourning her brother might explain a number of problems the design might face.


One thing I have to note, is that an untrained pony, armed with a revolver, an EFS and a SATS is able to repeatedly one-shot-kill Steel Rangers at distances of around 50-feet.

You could make a case for the armors being 200-years old, or the gun being a unique piece somehow able to shoot really powerful shots, or that people having a SATS is a game changer in itself...

But this will only reinforce the following point : that Steel Ranger armor are still vulnerable, to some extent, to small arm fire.


Now, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. In fact, I like my interpretation that the Steel Ranger program suffered from feature creep, management meddling, and other Project Management nightmares, which resulted in it being sub-optimal - in short that the failings of the design we can observe in the story aren't failings of the author but hints that the Ministry of Wartime Technology at the same time had really competent designers, but that its management was also incredibly incompetent by some aspects.

This would fit with the general theme of the Ministries having been... sub-optimally handled by their Ministry Mares, in different ways.

[Ironmonger]

That's just fucking brill. I tagged that as Kkat being ignorant, mostly because it was a revolver that did all that, but your conclusion makes sense.

Also, this brings up the question of who made the Enclave armor. We know it was designed by Rarity, but who manufactured it? Same goes for the energy weapons and the airships.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, Steel Ranger armor brought incredible FIGHTING capabilities, in the sense that steel rangers are walking tanks armed with an incredible number of heavy ordinance. Their offensive potential, when you add to that their EFS (sensor suit) and I suppose also SATS (stabilized firing) is simply tremendous. And THEN add in the repair and healing talismans, and you have what makes for a formidably heavy hitting and resilient soldier.

It's just that the protective aspect of their armor isn't up to what was expected of them.

A bit like the comment on the Bradley in that video :

"It's a troop transport that can't carry troops, a recon vehicle too conspicuous to do reconnaissance, and of course a tank that has less armor than a snowblower but enough ammos to take out half of DC."

[Harmony Ltd.]

As for the Pegasi equipment, my guess is that it was also the MWT who designed and built them, but under supervision of Rarity / the Ministry of Image for the Enclave Armors, and under the supervision of Rainbow Dash / the Ministry of Awesome for the ships.

The energy weapons seems to be a cooperation between the Ministry of Arcane Science and the MWT.

[CamoBadger]

I think the funnier comment is the one saying the Abrams sucks. Yes of course it does, which is why it's the most successful tank ever designed (if any of you start saying "no! x tank is better for blah-blah reasons", and it's one of the modern European tanks, please provide actual combat data to back it up and not factory specifications).


ANYWAYS, back to the Steel Ranger thing:
I agree that maybe the armor isn't exactly perfect and as powerful as they would have liked, but you can only put so much armor on a soldier before it starts to do more harm than good. Rangers already have lower mobility because of how bulky they are with all that armor on, and because of that I've always been convinced that they were originally designed to serve as heavy support, not as a one-pony-army.
Sure, they can dish out heavy damage, but if you get behind them they're in serious trouble since they won't be able to turn nearly as fast as a less-armored soldier. If a zebra with a mist-cloak and a high-powered rifle can get behind them or even just to their side, they'll be toast. Now if you have them stomping the enemy in support of regular infantry, suddenly they have extra eyes to watch out for those flanking attacks that will turn Rangers to scrap.
So while they're certainly a horrifying sight on the battlefield, without anyone to watch their backs that firepower won't do them much good, even with EFS for a heads up.

[Harmony Ltd.]

ANYWAYS, back to the Steel Ranger thing:
I agree that maybe the armor isn't exactly perfect and as powerful as they would have liked, but you can only put so much armor on a soldier before it starts to do more harm than good. Rangers already have lower mobility because of how bulky they are with all that armor on, and because of that I've always been convinced that they were originally designed to serve as heavy support, not as a one-pony-army.
Sure, they can dish out heavy damage, but if you get behind them they're in serious trouble since they won't be able to turn nearly as fast as a less-armored soldier. If a zebra with a mist-cloak and a high-powered rifle can get behind them or even just to their side, they'll be toast. Now if you have them stomping the enemy in support of regular infantry, suddenly they have extra eyes to watch out for those flanking attacks that will turn Rangers to scrap.
So while they're certainly a horrifying sight on the battlefield, without anyone to watch their backs that firepower won't do them much good, even with EFS for a heads up.

Exactly. That's why, it seems, these "suits" don't seem to have been widely issued to the Troops during the War, and why the Steel Rangers back then where a corp of their own, in the same way pegasi brought their aerial capabilities to the battlefield by mixing some of them with regular ground units (see : The Marauders with Jetstream and however that other pegasus was called).

I agree with your view they were used as support.

Applejack may have wanted to give every soldiers the protection her brother lacked (in her mind at least...), but the military command was smart enough to see the design's flaws and nevertheless find a use for it, a piece of gear that they would be forced to use anyway (because Appplejack sure as hell wouldn't let her pet-project die down after all the effort and hope she put into it).

[Harmony Ltd.]

I think the funnier comment is the one saying the Abrams sucks. Yes of course it does, which is why it's the most successful tank ever designed (if any of you start saying "no! x tank is better for blah-blah reasons", and it's one of the modern European tanks, please provide actual combat data to back it up and not factory specifications).

Depends on your metrics for success I guess.


(obvious troll is obvious)

[Harmony Ltd.]

What I can say though is that the Char Leclerc is, from most of what I've been able to hear, a more or less literal piece of shit.

A Leopard 2A6 would without any doubt do a better job.

I mean, when you have 300 tanks, but you can only ever use around 30 at any given time because all of the others are either in maintenance, broken, or put under tarps because they cost too much to keep operational, well... 1/ that doesn't make for a very effective fighting force and 2/ this costs the taxpayer a lot of buck for not much bang in return.

[Ironmonger]

I always liked the T-90, but I'll keep my mouth shut on any further details since I don't have said details.

Anyway, I could see Steel Rangers being used to transport large mortars and heavy machine guns. The 'miniguns' are great against infantry, not so much against vehicles and equipment.

FoE:Memories presents a good example of Steel Rangers being modified for various things.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I still struggle to see the attraction of using a multi-barreled gun design for a man/pony-portable anti-personnal weapon design shooting small caliber.

If it was supposed to be a high-rate-of-fire grenade launcher, I could understand to some extant, but "gatlings", as far as I know, are only interesting when you want a rate of fire above 1500 RPM. And at this rate ammunition would be consumed in a jiffy.

Plus, gatlings take a non-negligible amount of time to reach their "cruise speed" when you press the trigger. The alternative would be to have them continuously spinning and feed ammunition only when when you want to shoot, but, well... That's not really an elegant solution.


Remind me Iron, what was the justification I had found for their use by Equestria again ? Wasn't it something about using them as area of effect "shrapnel launcher" or some other far-fetched thing ?

[Ironmonger]

I don't recall you saying anything about that, but then again I don't recall a lot of things. I'm the guy who left his car keys in a Meijer.


Seriously though, giving the Steel Rangers miniguns was probably a stretch due to ammo problems, even more so considering that it is not a minigun, but in fact a microgun. Spitting all those 5mm rounds is like saying "FUCK YOU GET OFF MY LAWN!" And nothing else. Unless of course the rounds are a 'magnum' variant, with a narrow bullet but large powder charge.

[O. Hinds]

and under the supervision of Rainbow Dash / the Ministry of Awesome for the ships.

I don't think so, sorry.

“It’s just not right!” the blue pegasus spat with righteous indignation. “The Ministry of Awesome is putting up almost fifty towers -- as tall as the clouds -- all over Equestria and here you are having to sell Sweet Apple Acres just to get a suit of armor built? How does that make sense?”
Okay, maybe not an argument.

“That’s cuz buildin’ those towers is all y’all seem t’ be doin’,” Applejack explained patiently. “Meanwhile, muh Ministry is helpin’ fund over four dozen industries, givin’ them the subsidies they need t’ keep runnin’ until they c’n pull a solid profit. An’ next year, there’ll be twelve more.”

I assume that Applejack would have known if the big cloudships were being built by the MoA.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Good point, Hinds.

Iron, an alternative might be that they use very-low-caliber ammunition, going for the blaster / shotgun role.

I mean, IIRC it is not rare to have seen's BlackJack's or even Littlepip's barding stop volleys of minigun rounds. If I'm not mistaken, this indicate that they have a relatively low penetrative power.

Maybe more of an anti-personal weapon against relatively unarmored targets, long-distance shotguns in some way.

[Ironmonger]

That'd be kinda strange in my opinion, if interesting. One could just use a modified automatic shotgun which fires rifled slugs and it will do the same thing but better, albeit at the cost of range unless they use magnum slugs.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Oh ! Oh ! An incredibly silly idea !

What about they use a 2mm ammunition initially propelled by a powder charge and then accelerated in the barrel through the use of a velocity talisman ?

MAGIC GAUSS GATLING GUN

[Ironmonger]

Oh ! Oh ! An incredibly silly idea !

What about they use a 2mm ammunition initially propelled by a powder charge and then accelerated in the barrel through the use of a velocity talisman ?

MAGIC GAUSS GATLING GUN

Damn, Frenchie. You scary.

[Harmony Ltd.]

The energy transferred to the ammunition to increase its velocity would come from a spark battery, the velocity talisman would only be a catalytic agent to magically turn spark energy into mechanical momentum.

High ammunition capacity, high kinetic energy.

Though I wonder against what you'd use such a weapon ?

Maybe against light-armored personnel, as a pegasi-borne weapon for strafing enemy columns ?


edit : I may currently be sleep-deprived

[Ironmonger]

One could dig through even heavy body armor with that, just look at the American 180, perhaps provided enough time of course. It would also work well as an AA weapon against Pegasi.

[Harmony Ltd.]

let's see, if we imagine a cylinder of 2x10 millimeters, made of steel.

190 cubic millimeters.

Low-Carbon Steel has a density of 7.85 g/cm3.

Conversion : the projectile weighs 1.49 gram (1 cubic centimeter = 1000 cubic millimeter)


Let's imagine that this projectile is thrown around at mach 6 (2041.74 m/s)

Kinetic energy is calculated as follow :

Code:

Ek = (1/2)*m*(v^2)

where "m" is the mass in kilograms, "v" the velocity in metres per second, and "Ek" the kinetic energy in joule.

Code:

Ek = (1/2)*(1.49*10^-3)*(2042^2)

Ek = 3106 Joules

Here's what (french) Wikipedia says about the .44 magnum ammunition :

projectile mass : 15,6 grammes
Muzzle velocity :
canon de 10,2 cm : 425 m/s
canon de 16,5 cm : 448 m/s
canon de 21,3 cm : 459 m/s
canon de 29 cm : 475 m/s
Muzzle energy :
canon de 10,2 cm : 1408 J
canon de 16,5 cm : 1565 J
canon de 21,3 cm : 1643 J
canon de 29 cm : 1759 J

Around two time the muzzle energy of .44 magnum.

[Harmony Ltd.]

It's to be noted that at such speed, and given the low mass of the projectile, friction with the air at mach 6 could suffice to turn them red- or white-hot.

De facto turning them into incendiary ammunitions.

[Ironmonger]

I always knew the French were insane.


I've probably said this somewhere before, but this is one of the few instances where a .50 cal pistol/carbine would be effective. There's enough big beasties out there, and we have already established that the ponies and other people are generally more robust than humans. The recoil isn't as much as a problem and the weight is easier to manage since it's carried by extremely strong neck muscles.

Of course, nothing like the Desert Eagle, that thing is accurate but trying to use the controls is just unpleasant. Need something based on the .50 Grizzly Win Mag.

Edit: Sleep deprivation does terrible things to a mind.

[Harmony Ltd.]

So, I did a quick calculation...

For a cylinder of 5x70 mm, projectile weight 6.86 grams :

Muzzle energy at mach 6 = 14302 joule
Muzzle energy at mach 10 = 39720 joule

I think I have an idea for a prototype anti-material rifle...

[Ironmonger]

Might want to make sure that the bullet is made of something other than copper, otherwise it will just shred on impact.

...Actually that 'flaw' sounds like something exploitable for harassing fire. The copper could work like a flechette.

[Harmony Ltd.]

It's made of steel.

[StoneSlinger88]

What about explosive-shaped projectiles? They would be EXTREMELY effective against heavy zebra mechs, especially if the Equestrian forces are on the defense. Not as adaptive as a good anti-material rifle, but if you know the enemy is going to attack somewhere with armored vehicles, a few of those set up could slow them down immensely.

[Harmony Ltd.]

A good ol' RPG-7 rocket launcher.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I just checked, and according to wikipedia the .50 BMG projectile, on average ( it depend on the weapon firing it), carry a kinetic energy of around 18000 joules.

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