Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[O. Hinds]

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING HAVE NOT BEEN READ THOROUGHLY BEFORE BEING INCLUDED IN THIS POST; SOME OF THE INFORMATION BELOW MAY BE OUT OF DATE

R=6378.1 km
assume that A ranges from 20 to 40 km


relay/ground:
A=((R*(1/cos((L)/R)))-R)
L=(R*acos(R/((A)+R)))

A=((6378.1*(1/cos((L)/6378.1)))-6378.1)
L=(6378.1*acos(6378.1/((A)+6378.1)))


relay/relay:
A=((R/(cos((L)/(2*R))))-R)
L=((acos(R/(R+(A))))*2*R)

A=((6378.1/(cos((L)/(2*6378.1))))-6378.1)
L=((acos(6378.1/(6378.1+(A))))*2*6378.1)

This relates to the relays in the Alliance's ARCANN (Alliance Radio Communication And Navigation Network) system.

The Elusive Alliance
Major Powers:
The Elusive Company:
placeholder
The Miliozi (RZ Miliozius, second declension ius special):
note: Masozi (city) RZ Masozium second declension neuter
Minor Powers:
The Pax Novae Roamae:
note: capital Nova Roama
The Principality of Gibhalter:
note: also controls rebuilding port of Gallopoli
Profectum (second declension neuter):
placeholder

This is not a complete list and is a bit old, but it's the best that I have at this time.

formation of the Pax Roamana 0PR
defeat of the Diamond Dog empire by the Northern Zebras 50PR
meteor and fall of the Northern Zebras 80PR
pony colonization of the Equestrian Peninsula 180PR 0E
Discord arrives, Celestia and Luna descend 580PR 400E->0G
Nightmare Moon rises and is defeated 780PR 200G->0C
FiM begins 1780PR 1000C->0D
the war begins 1795PR 15D
Littlehorn 1804PR 21D->0L
the war ends 1815PR 11L
FoE 2015PR 211L->0SR
the NCR allows the EA to begin operating, within limits, in NCR territory 2026PR 11SR

I've posted this before, but I thought that I'd include it here, too.

@Sindri:
Yes, though I'm a physics/engineering student who is tremendously glad that he's already taken all of the required fine arts and English courses, my mother was an English major and it has rubbed off on me. Also, I just like figuring out how things work.

That said, I've not given that much thought to the cultural reasons for the language being as it is, I'm afraid.

I have thought of some of the things flowing from the language, though. For instance, declension (of paramount importance in Latin) would, I think, be likely to be indicated by standardized (or possibly, in some cases, irregular) modifications/addons to the characters. The fact that word order is totally unimportant, going as far as to render unnecessary the assembly of the characters into a linear string, ought to make possible some very creative examples of graphic design for signage and such.

Of course, one of the first thoughts to enter one's mind when one is presented with an ideogrammatic (and polysyllabic ideograms at that) is "Great, but how do you represent foreign words? And is there any way to find out how a character sounds without hearing it?" Two solutions to this problem were produced in the chat that sprung up during brushing when I noticed the omitted s. Firstly, as Latin writings often mixed in full Greek, Greek alphabet included, Roaman Zebra text might write foreign words in foreign alphabets if said alphabets are expected to be familiar enough. There might even be dedicated cartouche-like Roaman characters to facilitate the incorporation of string-dependent languages. The second answer that came up arose from someone (I think that it was Bronode, but it might have been Snipe; I apologize for not remembering) who brought up that Japanese has two writing systems, one ideogrammatic and one either syllabic or phonetic (I'm not very familiar with Japanese, the closest experience I have being two semesters of Mandarin I took a while ago to fulfill my university's foreign language requirement, but I seem to recall that this is correct; in particular, I believe that I remember reading somewhere that this is how Japanese texting works.). I think it not unlikely that there is some counterpart in Roaman Zebra, perhaps some system adopted from a sufficiently prominent group being incorporated into the…Pax Roamana? Whatever it's called. Based on my rough headcanon, it seem's not unlikely that Western Zebra culture would supply the sound-based writing system, meaning that it would likely be an alphasyllabary script similar to Devangari; there's even some stylistic similarity between Devangari and the Roaman glyphs, or what we've seen of them, suggesting that it might be possible to create new glyphs for new words/concepts by applying artistic manipulation to parts of the Western writing. And it would look cool.

Of course, one of the second thought's to enter one's mind when one is presented with a writing system like this is "How do the users organize their dictionaries?" This problem, I am afraid, I am not sure yet how to solve. The looking up of words heard is relatively simple if the book is alphabetized by the Western character set, but that helps little with the looking up of words seen. Mandarin dictionaries are based on the number of brush strokes in parts of characters, which may be valid here, but, alas, I have not a sufficient supply of data on the appearances of Roaman glyphs to work further on this idea, I think.

Hm. According to the file's timestamp, this was created less than two hours away from being exactly a year and a day ago.

Equestrian standard loading gauge is rectangular, 10.5ft wide and 18.5ft from railtop to maximum in gauge height.


7ft track gauge

10.5ft=3.2004m
18.5ft=5.6388m

3.22m wide, 5.65m high

Now, this isn't exactly headcanon; it was produced (not by me) by careful study of the show itself. It's useful, though, so I thought that I'd put it here. What is part of my headcanon related to this is that the Alliance's standard gauge is compatible.

Well, thank you for your interest.  First of all, I think I ought to make it clear that none of this is necessarily canon to PH (Though I can hope…).  Let's see… I'm not really sure where to start beyond that; I've a lot of ideas, but, beyond what I've already posted, they're a bit disconnected.

Well, the map's probably a good space to start; I'll send you the current version.  Hopefully you've got some kind of Photoshop so that you can view the different layers, but hopefully it will be interesting/useful even if you don't.

Okay!  Picking a place sort of at random to start with, Zanzebra!  I'm afraid that I've not much information on this place, as it's something that Somber came up with and I don't think that he actually bothered to fill in the details.  It's part of Northern culture, though, with perhaps some significant Central immigration (fortunately for the parallels, Zanzibar did receive some not insignificant aid from the German Democratic Republic back in the 70s, so there's some connection there).  Further south, we've Aquimania.  Both Zanzebra and Aquimania were key components of the war effort; Zanzebra was a good base in itself and an important stop in the logistical chains heading across the strait to Dawn bay, while Aquimania was famous (or, if you're Equestrian, infamous) for it's Navis-S pens and support industry, its air defences, and the support it gave to the soldiers fighting on the Northeastern Front, one of the fiercest combat areas of the war.  Though it at its furthest push into Equestria extended only to Shattered Hoof Ridge and was forced steadily back after that, Equestria paid for every square meter of the strategically-crucial south coast it took.

To the west we find Gibhalter and Gallopoli, keys to the gateway of the Marediterranean.  While both cities were originally Zebra (Marediterranean culture), Gibhalter was captured by a titanic battle relatively early in the war and held by Equestrian forces until the Final Assault, and even then its defenders were able to keep it.

Roam I don't actually have much detail on, the same going for Alexequia, Mainbai, Champat, and Oppidum Promontorium.  As you can see if you've got layers working, Equestria was working on taking the west coast and besieging Mainbai when the war ended, but I've not yet fleshed that out.  Though that might be a good place to ponder Dea Rubrum (the Zebra ace of aces, said to be more at home in the sky than most griffins and pegasi and famous for her bright-red custom planes, one memorable incident in which she ran out of fuel, ejected onto a power-armored pegasus, and knife-fought her way to the ground, and being the only non-test pilot of the Sagittariis Spectralem (a ridiculously expensive fighter based on the real-life XF-84H Thunderscreech but with a second contrarotating propellor, a two-speed engine to avoid damaging the ground equipment and crew, and a magic system that sent energy to the supersonic propellor tips in just the right way and then channeled the results back over the whole aircraft; upshot: a fighter that, though subsonic and not that good with the system off, can rainboom at will and stay in the superrainboom state until the fuel runs out; it came pretty late in the war, though)) some more… She's Western, I believe…

Elusive City is actually a postwar development; I've a lot of thought about that, but a lot of stuff is still deliberately unfinalized.  Short version: Elusive is the AI of a heavily-armed Equestrian cruise ship of the same name and built near the end of the war (and yes, the name is what you think; the lead programmer of a fan (actually, I'll send you the picture I made of his preferred avatar, too, though it's not terribly relevant to what we're talking about here)) and of the same name.  He used the 100 Speech and 10 CHA meant to deal with irate passengers to gather some former Equestrian and Zebra forces together under his banner and set up a floating city based around a Zebra drillship hooked up to one of the world's first oil wells.  Of course, the city didn't really take off until contact with the Miliozi was reestablished, but that's another story and one that, again, is in many places currently deliberately unfinalized.

So, the last dot on the map.  Profectum!  Zebra R&D during the war was scattered around the lands, as was Equestria's, but the Zebras had in Profectum their version of Hoofington.  Though, really, beyond the design for defensibility and the purpose as an R&D hub, there aren't all that many similarities.  It was constantly hoped, for instance, that Profectum would _not_ get attacked, which is quite different from Hoofington's extra role as Equestria's tank.  Profectum was in fact several times, but even Equestria's megaspell bombardment (and it was _quite_ the bombardment) only dealt it massive but nonfatal damage.  The thing was, all those defensive systems that were developed, found effective but then deemed, for one reason or another (cost, scalability, etc.), unfit for deployment were, if doing so was not to expensive, preserved in fully operational condition at Profectum.  The city itself was a rather striking place, mostly underground but still mostly above ground level due to being built into a mesa rising over the surrounding test-site-dotted desert.  Of course, you had to look at it the right way to find it striking, as the actual city was mostly windowless interiors in various flavors of utilitarianism, but still.  The city's inception was basically "Let's take a bunch of really smart people and some soldiers to guard them, find a good spot out of the way, plunk the people down there, give them free communication inside but not out, encourage the exchange of ideas,  give them lots of money and equipment, and then finally throw them a bunch of projects for the war effort and see what happens."  This worked quite well.  While communication and passage into Profectum were limited and communication and passage _out_ were very limited indeed, there were no official secrecy rules within the facility.  The free exchange of ideas, pressing need of the war effort (necessity is the mother and all that), and vast amounts of funding produced a wonderful burst of ingenuity.  Wartime Profectum's most noticeable achievements in the modernish Equestrian Wasteland would be the Pink Cloud (though notably not the full weapons system, which includes the counterspell and leaves negligible residue behind), the balefire megaspells, the SACI (which saw limited use mainly because they wanted every missile they could get and still had a few SACIs lying around after the program was ended in favor of the SACII), and the SACII, the missile that won the war (a pyrric victory is still a victory, though proposals by a few Zebra ghouls to get 10-23-11 EC (and I apologize, but I've not really got a calendar for the Zebras) declared Victory Day have met with some understandable resistance).  (Note: Somber still is attached to the Kkat-derived idea that the missiles were ballistic, despite the fact that, even disregarding FoE, what little evidence we have from PH points to cruise missiles being much more likely.  I hope yet to fully convert him before/in case the matter comes to a head, though.)

Ah, but let's see, you were interested in my thoughts on the culture…  Note that this all might be varying degrees of uncertain…
I don't think that the Zebras seriously expected Equestria to declare war on them.  Such a small thing as the initial incident?  It would be utterly _mad_ to declare a war over that!  Unfortunately, the Zebras failed to understand how a large-enough part of the Equestrian leadership a: had no idea what war actually was and b: was composed of blithering idiots, and so war there was.  Once there was war, I don't think they expected to have much of a chance; surely Celestia and/or Luna would just bake them under the sun or, worse, freeze them under the stars until they gave in?  But the Zebras fought anyway because, well, Equestria had made it clear that it was fight, surrender, or die, and the Zebras weren't going to do the latter two if they could help it, even though they probably would have to surrender soon.  But then Celestia and Luna held back, and against mortals, even against mortals with Equestria's magic?  Zebras had _lots_ of experience fighting things worse than mere mortal ponies.  It began to be hoped that the war might be ended with the negotiated surrender of _Equestria_.  But of course Equestria couldn't surrender.  They were the chosen ponies of the Goddesses; it was inconceivable that they could _lose_.  So they pushed back and more people died on both sides and grudges grew and both sides got drawn further into the war, committing steadily more resources.  Equestrian forces marched into Zebra lands and the Zebras fought back viciously against the invaders.  Things had already been building and simmering for some time when the Littlehorn Incident occurred.

The war grew steadily worse with no prospect of surrender from either side.  Too much bad blood and fear for that, and more all the time.  And then, eventually, the Caesar and the Zebra High Command, after nearly two decades of war, looked at the reports they were being given and came to a conclusion: they were losing (not right away, but they would not be able to hold for all that much longer), and it was not going to be _at all_ pleasant (Seriously, look at Yellow River and think about ponies who's grown up with the war and M.o.I. propaganda.  Does it seem to you likely that a Zebra land annexed by and increasingly-Orwellian Equestria would be a nice place to live?).  There were two choices: surrender now, or throw absolutely everything at Equestria.  The arguments raged, but, eventually, the second option was chosen.  Once Equestria got its teeth in, it was though, there'd be no getting rid of it, and the future didn't look hopeful then (and, depending on how much they knew of what was going on in Hoofington, they might be aware that any sort of Equestrian victory is a big win for the Eater of Souls…and I think that there's a pretty good chance that they _did_ know); there would be at least some hope of a second chance with the second option.

And so plans were made.  The SACIIs were never really intended as a deterrent; they could act as one in the short term, yes, but the design was optimized for an offensive strategic surprise attack weapon.  It's worth noting, however, that almost no one was informed of what was actually going on.  There were suspicions, of course, but no confirmations.

And then, at last, the appointed day, 10-23-11 EC, arrived, and the Final Assault was launched.  A massive, probably-suicidal blitzkrieg on Equestrian forces in Zebra lands and the launch of several simultaneous invasions of Equestria (the only successful one being Legate Masozi's landing in San Franciscolt), this was the last desperate hope to avoid the apocalypse.  If it was successful, if the Equestrian forces could be pushed home or even further, perhaps negotiations could be reopened.  If not saboteurs were in place in Equestria and the SACII system was on full, unlocked, one-button-from-boom alert, and the assault would at least cripple Equestria's potentially-surviving military strength (which is something that FoE left unanswered; the megaspells fell on Equestria, but what happened to Equestrian troops elsewhere?).  Unfortunately, the first was not to be.

The exact events are unclear, but Celestia One began firing on the missile fields.  The government and operators, about to lose the last thing keeping Equestria from simply bombarding the Zebra lands with their immensely powerful strategic megaspells, sent the firing command, and the missiles erupted skyward while the saboteurs leapt into action.  Equestria detected the incoming missiles and saw the results of the saboteurs' actions and sent out its own signal, and that was that.

Zebra culture during the war would be pretty varied, but I can tell you a few things.  Firstly, coal was their main power source, but pretty early on their engineers developed a substance we'd call diesel fuel, called by them Cic (pronounced Kick) and engines to run on it (petrodiesel came later, as petroleum production hadn't really gotten into to full swing even by the end of the war, though it was starting).  Later than that, but still well before the end of the war, gas turbine and then jet engines were created, running on CicL (pronounced Kick El).  Such technologies powered much of Zebra civilizations, including relatively extensive airplane development.  Zebra fighters, even the most sophisticated ones from the end of the war, still usually had to fight uphill in the rain for anything resembling air superiority, but it was far better than nothing.  Further from the front lines, transport airplanes and rotodynes formed vital parts of Zebra transportation systems.

Okay… I think that that's all that I can think of to say for the moment; I apologize for the rather rambling nature of my text and hope that I answered at least a few of your questions.  Please let me know if you have any more; I might be spurred to further thought and typing by more specific enquiries.

Apparently Gmail only allows American-standard date formatting. Annoying.

Just how was the power structure developed in each culture so that representatives could come to decisions? For example, just how much authority was brought through Zebra high command? With the example of Perfecto, it seems that Zebras had a habit of encouraging creative solutions to some extent. When to came to budgeting, tactics, standard operating procedures, troop training, infrastructure, and logistics, how much was centered in high command for slower control and how much was spread out to territories for faster response?
(Note: I'm not tremendously skilled with this sort of thing, so reader beware.)
Hm... I'd imagine that it's a highly nonhomogenous hierarchical federal system.  Sort of like the United States but with significantly more diversity.  The government in Roam would be selected by its constituents via varying methods (the delegate from X is elected, the delegate from Y holds a hereditary position, the delegate from Z is elected but the nomination of candidates depends on heredity...).  Roam would usually function primarily as a forum for meetings between the various constituent entities, not actually exerting control over the constituents.  If there is a severe enough disagreement between two or more constituents or if a citizen (according to Roam's definition) or group asks the Roaman government to step in, the wheels are set in motion, discussions are held, etc.  Roam does not directly control much, but it does hold great power in that it can bring all of Zebra civilization, if necessary, to bear on a problem.  The Zebra (i.e., maintained at the Roaman level) military was in peacetime pretty small, but pretty much every constituent maintained its own forces and kept them up to minimum requirements and to certain standards set by Roam.  Apart from these things, ensuring that the constituents were providing at least the minimum legal level of civil rights and infrastructure, and collecting taxes to support itself when donations and the profit from government-owned businesses weren't enough, peacetime Roam pretty much left the constituents to themselves.  (Well, it's probably more complex than that; for instance, I expect that Roam-supported scientific and educational institutions were scattered all across Zebra lands, as were Roam-government-owned businesses, and the interactions among the constituents could get quite complex.)

In wartime (or when faced with other crises, but it is the war that concerns us), things would be rather different.  The exact response would vary depending on what it's a response to, of course, but I'll focus here on a full-resources war (distinct from a limited-resources war where only some constituents, those closest, particularly able, or perhaps just out of favor with Roam for one reason or another, would be tapped for support).  The first thing done would be to unify all the various constituent military forces into one military machine, the Roam-set standards and minimum requirements (and, of course, the common language of Roaman Zebra) ensuring a smooth fit.  The representative body would take third place (first going to the Caesar) behind a High Command appointed by the Caesar.  This would use the civil service, the representative body, and the local governments to take full control of the Zebra lands, and the business of fighting the war would begin in earnest.
 
Zebra's were objectified in M.o.I propaganda and the reality is anything but. As Equestria became more Orwellian and culturally sterile, they would have only better fit whatever objectifying propaganda zebras came up with.
Yeah.  Equestria did a pretty good job of making anti-Equestrian propaganda all by itself.  Of course, Equestrian agents could also sow disinformation to reduce Zebra morale, but, at the end of the day, they're still the ones who have to resort to lying to both sides.
 

What would the have been like for the average non-combatant citizen of the Western and Northern tribes? As the war raged on the battle lines would have gone back and forth. Being so close to the fighting, towns would have been swallowed up and degraded into urban combat. How was life for citizens of towns that found themselves under Equestrian rule one year and Zebra rule the next?
I'd imagine that it wasn't; either they stayed and fought, becoming part of the military, they stayed and surrendered, becoming prisoners of war, or they fled to less-explosive pastures.

It brings up a great many questions on how the ground troops would treat the zebra locals at varying stages of the war, and how the Zebra troops would have treated citizens that corroborated during Equestrian occupation. Just as Equestira has its Littlehorn Massacre, did the Zebra's have their My Lai and Nanking?
To all: I'm not really sure.  The first two would vary very greatly with the exact situation, I think, and the third I've no ideas for at present.  Eve without a really big single transgression by Equestria, though, I expect that there were lots of little ones (I highly doubt, for example, that the reports of Deus's deployment were well received... except possibly by the propaganda makers, who may well have wondered again if they should just add the Equestrian government to their payroll).

By the way, did you see this when it was on the forums?  It's something I knocked together a bit ago.  The idea is that is was meant to be the world's tallest building (515m, not counting the antenna), and it would have been if it had been finished on schedule (and possibly if it had been finished at all by the end of the war, depending on whether the "World's Tallest Buildings" list considered Shadowbolt Tower and the SPP towers valid).  The building on the right is what was actually constructed; work was paused when the war got going, and, once it became clear that the war would be going on for quite a while, the unfinished structure was capped off with the already-built antenna and a quartet of rotodyne pads.

The "this" was an attached picture of the Turris Prosperitatis. The below is not the same picture of the building, but I think that it's a better one.

"It also makes me wonder what developments in material sciences allowed a building like that to be brought into existence."
Alchemically-treated materials.  Steel beams sprayed with potions to make them twice as strong and half as heavy, that sort of thing.  Also, if placed on modern Earth, the Turris Prosperitatis would be only the third-tallest building in the world, fifth if non-building structures are included, so there's that (source Wikipedia, but it's probably right).

Well, when it was conceived and construction was started, it was meant to be a symbol of Zebra (and, more specifically but unofficially, Roaman) prosperity, ingenuity, and power.  I expect that contributions poured in from all over the place: various companies, some collections from citizens, wealthy individuals, the Roaman government, various smaller governments, etc.  There's probably a particularly-Historic part of the building (maybe the floor of the main entry atrium?) that has all of the names on it, with the largest contributors naturally taking the most visible places.  At over two hundred and fifty stories above ground, it would have offices, apartments, hotels, theaters, medical centers, shopping arcades, an indoor garden hundreds of meters above the ground (and I think that it was buillt on a hill, too), a metro station in the basement, a broadcast center... You get the idea.  I doubt that there were any secret labs, though, and I expect that they'd be in the basement if they did exist.

Of course, then the war came.  Sadly, the tower wasn't finished as it was originally intended... but at 250m it was still (probably; I'm not entirely sure, but Roam, while possessing skyscrapers, could build out enough so that I think they were probably not extremely tall) the tallest building in Roam.  Moreover, since it was, as you've pointed out, half a tower, designed to withstand in normal use much greater downward and lateral forces than it currently bore, it was also quite a sturdy building.  Antiair was certainly installed in the capping as part of the city's defense system.  I'm not sure about the building hosting secret labs, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if offices were taken over for military or secret business or if hotel ballrooms were converted into special ops training facilities.  Actually, on that subject, maybe whole sections of the inside of the building were redecorated to look Equestrian for the purpose of training spies?

Oh, and here are some more pictures attached in the email thread, these for size comparison; I don't believe that I've ever uploaded these to Cloudsville before. Spoilered for size.

Spoiler:

Funny story: That is not, IIRC, actually the same model of the TP as the one displayed in the previous image. I didn't make the comparison building models, instead getting them off the Internet… and I could only find them in American units. I'd modeled the TP in metric, of course, and I couldn't figure out how to convert. Lucky for me that I'd chosen such simple geometry and proportions, as I had to convert the tower's measurements to American units and use those to build a nearly-exact duplicate for the pictures.

Okay.  Firstly, there are...two, three, or four major parts to it, depending on when you're writing (and complicated that I've not got an exact timeline worked out yet).  Actually, there are a fifth and maybe sixth (I think), but those don't really enter the picture until after FoE ends.  Of the four that you might be dealing with...I'll start with the "minor" ones.

The least important, though still by no means meaningless, is a resettlement of Zebrica by the two major parts (and, to a lesser extent, the second minorish one).  I don't have many details about this at the moment, but it's mostly for cropland, natural resources, living space, and political maneuvering.

The second "minor" faction (and that word here applies very loosely) is Profectum, an island in a very large Zebrican bay/inland sea with ocean access.  Before the apocalypse, however, it was a mesa with nothing but sand and barren rock for at least a hundred klicks in every direction.  Before the war and during the first couple of years, the unnamed mesa was similarly barren.  And then it got noticed.  Test sites were built in the surrounding area, living quarters, storage rooms, and work areas were excavated, and consolidation began.  By the end of the war, the small underground (mostly, though there was an airport, among other things, built atop the mesa) city called Profectum was filled with the best and brightest minds the Zebras had, all dedicated to winning the war.  No one without a security clearance high enough to know everything that went on there was let past shooting distance of the place, but those who did have clearance were encouraged to fraternize and exchange even seemingly unimportant ideas, the hope being that this would drive innovation more readily.  They were also forbidden to leave the city due to security concerns, but sacrifices must be made in wartime, after all.
Though Profectum produced many peaceful or neutral ideas, the focus was always on the war.  The SACII, the missile that won the war (for a given value of "won") (and also, yes, I know that Kkat still insists that the Zebras used ICBMs, not cruise missiles, but you asked for my headcanon and I maintain that this is an example of Kkat getting her own story wrong), the version of the Pink Cloud deployed at Canterlot (I'm not sure where the Cloud originated; possibly Profectum, but possibly somewhere else), the Pink Cloud countermegaspell that made it a viable antigoddess weapon, balefire bombs in a variety of shapes and sizes, firearms, fuels, explosives, computer systems, etc., etc.  Profectum was the Zebra Hoofington, but without the eldritch horrors and deliberate target status.
Speaking of which, though the exact activities of Profectum were secret, keeping the city's existence secret was impossible, and it was naturally a prime target in the final megaspell exchange.  Mere hours before the planned Zebra first strike, Equestria deployed its own megaspells (again, you asked for my headcanon, and I've evidence to back me up!).  The mesa and the city within it were saved from total destruction by a prototype shield generator, but they were far from undamaged.  The city was hit by several megaspells before the shield could be raise, and even the shield could do nothing to stop vast swaths of the desert being shoved below sea level.  The result was chaos; in addition to the damage the Equestrian megaspells themselves wrought, though the section isolation systems mostly worked, radiation, fire, toxic potions and chemicals, water, and even, in one section, an even more potent Pink Cloud prototype, were let loose in the city.
Still, the tunnels and chambers had been built with safety in mind, and in the city were the best minds the Zebras could get.  Despite the damage, Profectum clung to life and survived (though, for the relatively significant fraction of the population that had been ghoulified or otherwise granted accidental immortality, for a given value of "survived").  It remained quiet, though, its inhabitants too focused on either continued survival or, with nothing else to do, continuing their work out of habit and love for it.  From time to time the occasional expedition to what was now the mainland was sent out, but Zebrica was not a pleasant place.  Travel was also limited by the fact that the outside of Profectum had been made highly radioactive by the war (though this did, of course, diminish naturally over time, even before the cleanup efforts (see below) began), putting a bit of a kink on casual travel for those not immune to radiation poisoning.
The change came when, after [ERROR: TIMESPAN NOT FOUND], an Elusive Alliance (NP, Name Provisional) (also, see below) reexploration ship found and made contact with the city.  There followed, of course, a period of tentative talks ("Do you want to kill us?" "No.  You?" "No, but then, of course that's what we'd both say...").  These culminated with Profectum loosely joining the Alliance and beginning to take part in both its technological development (using stockpiled knowledge, undead/mutated engineers and scientists, and the relatively well trained (for the Wasteland) descendents on the scientists, engineers, guards, and service people who hadn't been made immortal;; also, it is important to note that Profectum still retained considerable control over its intellectual resources; for example, Profectum, after sending a party to covertly tour the New Canterlot Republic, decided not to (re)develop superweapons for the Miliozi (see below, name probably not provisional anymore though I just thought of it today) when the latter felt threatened by the NCR) and the resettlement of Zebrica (including the cleanup of the radiation on Profectum Island).

Right, now, next are the two major powers, the founders of the Elusive Alliance, the organization responsible for bringing Profectum out of isolation and creating the resettlement effort.  However, it's 0042 here, and I've got class and homework (well, only possibly on the latter, given that the relevant professor may have decided not to assign it) tomorrow.  Sorry, but I'll have to send the rest along later.
To help me narrow things down, what range of years A.A. are you looking for filler for?  That would help me narrow down the descriptions, which would be a big help for when I get to the Elusive Company (NP).
Also, sorry for any incoherence, repetition, etc., but I'm rather tired.

If you're wondering why this one is dated earlier than the previous one, it's because this is a different email thread. Also, wow, this definitely counts as having some out of date information. I'd completely forgotten that I'd once had the desert around Profectum submerged. This was before I'd actually started trying to map the area.

Well, that's everything that I could find that wasn't already posted by Harmony Ltd. above (not counting my maps or the SACII stuff, which are linked in my signature; also on my DA is some information on the Vetribus high-altitude reconnaissance airplane); hopefully people will find it interesting and perhaps even useful.
…
Well…
Perhaps not quite everything.

WARNING: BAD FILK (I still don't know why I was inspired to make this…):

[CamoBadger]

holy crap... that's a LOT OF POST.
And most of it I can't even understand (like the railway? stuff)

[O. Hinds]

Good grief there are a lot of typos in that old writing...

[O. Hinds]

Good news: according to this (quite a neat-looking website, by the way), the Kincardine Bridge's twin navigation channels are each (after unit conversion) over forty-five meters wide; the swing bridge need not serve as a choke point preventing Panamax-size (max beam 32.31m, according to Wikipedia) ships from traversing the isthmus.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Quick question, Hinds :

Is there things or important elements about Pre- and Post- war Zebra society we should know about that hasn't been touched upon yet ? Or some things you changed your mind upon (you've talked about updated informations) ?

[Kippershy]

Ya know, fuck it. If i'm not asleep when I get home, i'll shove my BrokenBonds canon in here to get myself back into thinking about it all. Now I feel wishy washy and attention whorey damn it.

[Harmony Ltd.]

And how should the guy who created a fuck ass huge thread just to dump his own headcanon for a setting about a story which doesn't exist yet should feel, then ?

In other words :

Now I feel wishy washy and attention whorey

No you ain't.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Another question, Hinds :

does the Crystal Empire exist in your headcanon, and if yes, where is it ?

I know some stories could use a frozen wasteland that isn't part of Equestria.


...

Would there be a place beyond the sea north of Equestria for a frozen continent ? With a Scandinavia-like climate, the more you go up North, the more it turns Siberian/Arctic-like ?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Can anyone remind me what is that place that's called "The Republic" on Hinds' map ? It's something like 30 kilometers north of Maripony / 50 kilometers east of Ponyville, just on the side of the river.


Anyway, I'm working on headcannoning something for Geneighva, and maybe also for Friedrichshorfen (a city universally hated by dyslexics ).

I think I'm going to have some fun with that idea for a Stable I had shared a while back.

[CamoBadger]

Quick question, Hinds :

Is there things or important elements about Pre- and Post- war Zebra society we should know about that hasn't been touched upon yet ? Or some things you changed your mind upon (you've talked about updated informations) ?

I can kinda talk about this!
I don't know if it lines up well with Hinds' zebra headcanon though. Either way, I've got a few things of my own (like a page long explanation only about how zebras are named )

[CamoBadger]

They weren't as think as you drunk they were!

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well then, go on ! :D


Anyway, I reworked the NCR's military organization, so here's the standard template for how its forces are organized (at least hierarchically). Note that in practice there's some wiggle room regarding numbers (because, you know, when you're at war, people tend to, well, die, and stuff).


[FT] Fire-Team => 4 soldiers + 1 Corporal
[S] Squad => 4 Fire-Team + 1 Sergeant
[P] Platoon => 4 Squads + 1 Lieutenant (Leader) + 1 Sergeant (Second-in-Command) + 1 Political Officer
[C] Company => 4 Platoons + 1 Captain (Leader) + 1 Lieutenant (SiC) + 1 Political Officer
[B] Battalion => 4 Companies + 1 Colonel (Leader) + 1 Captain (SiC) + 1 Political Officer
[R] Regiment => 4 Battalions + 1 Brigadier (Leader) + 1 Colonel (SiC) + 1 Political Officer
[D] Division => 4 Regiments + 1 General (Leader) + 1 Brigadier (SiC) + 1 Political Officers


A quick note :

Given how diverse the backgrounds of every NCR's units are, and to ensure that proper NCR Moral Standards are met (there may be a number of "reformed" "raiders" who enlisted in the NCR's Army...), the Political Officers Corp is tasked to ensure the "political cohesion" of the NCR's forces. They also relay the MoralE state of their units to their hierarchy, so that appropriate measures can be taken.

Still working on the exact relationship between the Political Officers Corp and the Regular Forces.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Put another way :


Fire Team (5) :
- 4 Soldier
- 1 Corporal

Squad (21) :
- 16 Soldiers
- 4 Corporals
- 1 Sergeant

Platoon (87) :
- 64 Soldiers
- 16 Corporals
- 5 Sergeant
- 1 Lieutenant
- 1 Political Officer

Company (351) :
- 256 Soldiers
- 64 Corporals
- 20 Sergeant
- 5 Lieutenant
- 1 Captain
- 5 Political Officers

Battalion (1407) :
- 1024 Soldiers
- 256 Corporals
- 80 Sergeant
- 20 Lieutenant
- 5 Captain
- 1 Colonel
- 21 Political Officers

Regiment (5631) :
- 4096 Soldiers
- 1024 Corporals
- 320 Sergeant
- 80 Lieutenant
- 20 Captain
- 5 Colonel
- 1 Brigadier
- 85 Political Officers

Division (22527) :
- 16384 Soldiers
- 4096 Corporals
- 1280 Sergeant
- 320 Lieutenant
- 80 Captain
- 20 Colonel
- 5 Brigadier
- 1 General
- 341 Political Officers

[CamoBadger]

Okay, zebra headcanon time.

naming:

pre-war culture and society:

post-war culture and society:

This is probably all crazy and doesn't make sense to anyone except me. Feel free to tear holes in it and I'll explain any issues as best I can.

[Harmony Ltd.]

For an NCR settlement of around 1000 people, it's usual to have 1 active Platoon being used to provide Law Enforcement, and to train the reservists : the NCR having Universal Conscription, every citizen in age to bear arms is trained to use them and to be mobilized into the Active Forces should the need arise (say, if the settlement is attacked for example).

Due to the still relatively low population density of the NCR (high by Wasteland standards, but otherwise still low), the NCR's military units are dispersed, which make the Platoon the de facto basic unit of the NCR Army.



The Political Officers Corp :

Has its own Academy in New Canterlot. Under the supervision of the Department of Internal Affairs and not the Department of the Army.

Has the complex task of (non-exhaustive list) :
- keeping the NCR's Armed Forces united
- ensuring that its units operate smoothly and efficiently with each others
- ensuring that they act in a way that is conform to the Ideals of the Republic
- keep the military hierarchy accountable to the civilians
- overseeing military justice

Political Officers follow a formation in Leadership, Diplomacy and Administration, a formation which nowadays takes long years - the first political officers were recruited for their zeal to ensure the NCR's continued existence and the application of its ideals, but sheer conviction can't replace competence. Most of the orphans of the Republic (and there's a decent number of them) are sent to this Academy.

It's to be noted that the Political Officers who aren't affected to units of the Armed Forces are instead sent to the various settlements of the Republic to serve as bricks of its young Administration.

It's hoped that they will ensure at the most basic level the unity of the Republic, which is otherwise just a federation of cities, settlements and other political entities.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Also, from Hinds' map...


Any existing informations / headcanon on :

- St. Paulomino
- Stockhast
- Fancee
- Trottingham
- Stalliongrad
- Neighpon
- Kalcolta

?

Or should I invent them myself, finding inspiration from their geographical positions / names ?

[CamoBadger]

I've got nothing on any of those places.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Some rough / unrefined ideas :

Friedrichshorfen : Pre-Apocalypse, was an important industrial center for all things aeronautical. Mostly, it was where the Raptors and other pegasi ships where assembled. Sustained heavy balefire bombardment during the Apocalypse, but most of the facilities had been hardened, the bombs only succeeding in wiping the city from the map and not its "naval" yards (and also rendering the water of the river flowing into Hoofington heavily radioactive). Post-Apocalypse, the Enclave kept a close eye on the yards, going as far as making it one of the rare place in the Wasteland where they kept a permanent presence on the ground, to manufacture new spare parts for their ships, cities and industry. As a result of this presence, the ghouls and raider populations are virtually non-existent - the latter only starting to flow in the area after the fall of the Enclave. Though the remnants of the Enclave, the Isolationnists, are trying to re-assert their control over the area.

Geneighva : sitting in what Pre-Apocalypse was a lush landscape of alpine mountains, the city was specialized in fine mechanics and other high-precision industries - they where building the machines which would help build the machines. It was also one of Stable-Tec's most important center of operations. A number of prototype stables, not meant for actual "Stable Experiments" have been built in the surrounding mountains, testing the various excavation and construction techniques. As a result of this, a non-negligible proportion of the region's inhabitants managed to find a place in stables when Doom's Day came. Benefiting from their experience with excavating techniques, having the hardware to both dig and build and live underground, and with the benefit of both knowing each others and being united as stable-tec employees (or family members of Stable-tec employees), the various Stables started linking each others through underground tunnels, expanding their living space, and soon building whole underground cities under the mountains.

[O. Hinds]

Quick question, Hinds :

Is there things or important elements about Pre- and Post- war Zebra society we should know about that hasn't been touched upon yet ? Or some things you changed your mind upon (you've talked about updated informations) ?

...Not that I can think of at the moment, but I might have overlooked something. Post-apocalypse Zebra society, though... doesn't really exist. The apocalypse shattered the links that made there be a Zebra societies, so instead there are a bunch of separate and varied zebra societies.

Another question, Hinds :

does the Crystal Empire exist in your headcanon, and if yes, where is it ?

No. I know that Somber added it to PH, but this is one of my headcanon discontinuities with PH.

Would there be a place beyond the sea north of Equestria for a frozen continent ? With a Scandinavia-like climate, the more you go up North, the more it turns Siberian/Arctic-like ?

Oh, did you not see my world map efforts? Yes, I am trying to get a, or at least some land, up there, as my headcanon has that as the place of origin of ponies.

Can anyone remind me what is that place that's called "The Republic" on Hinds' map ? It's something like 30 kilometers north of Maripony / 50 kilometers east of Ponyville, just on the side of the river.

“They’re raiders!” one of the younger bucks shouted up at us. “They wiped out The Republic!”
“They wiped out the what now?” I asked, confused.
“Little town up north o’ here,” Calamity informed us. “Ah protected a few caravans travelin’ ‘tween it an’ New Appleloosa. Bizarrre, cult-like group o’ weirdoes, but not bad ponies. Certainly didn’t deserve t’ be slaughtered.”

“Yep! We’re on a rescue mission!” the enthusiastic amber mare said. A scowl broke over her face. “These raiders murdered every adult in The Republic and took the fillies and colts back to their fort. I guess they wanted to keep them for themselves. We’re going in after them.”
“Probably wanted playthings,” the khaki buck snorted, his voice filled with loathing.
Calamity bristled. Velvet Remedy gasped, “They did what?”
“Where is this fort?” I asked, stepping forward, my personal embarrassment forgotten.
The olive-coated buck pointed a hoof. “There’s an old hut on the far side of Ponyville, right up next to the Everfree Forest.” Dammit! I thought I had cleared Ponyville of raiders. This place must have been far enough out that I missed it. “They’ve turned it into the center of a small compound.”

“We were the same age, and I’d suffered loss of my own that the others in the Society thought was similar,” Life Bloom continued, his tone suggesting that the Society was in error on that supposition. He explained, “I was kicked out of The Republic after they discovered I had a preference for stallions.”
I blinked in surprise. “W-what?”
The Republic, I remembered, was the little town that the raiders from Fluttershy’s cottage had massacred. A bizarrre, cult-like group o’ weirdoes, but not bad ponies according to the Wasteland Crusaders.
“They kicked you out because of that?” I was astounded. Since my youth, I had been resigned to my feelings for mares lowering my prospects for finding love. But I’d never experienced actual prejudice because of it. I couldn’t even fathom that. “Why? Why would they even care?”
“Fer the same reason, Ah’ll reckon, that the Enclave rewards it,” Calamity said, approaching us, his words prompting another wait, what? from the little pony in my head. “Population control. Small place like The Republic, Ah bet they needed as many babies as they could get.”
Life Bloom nodded, frowning. “And if I wasn’t going to contribute to the growth of The Republic, I wasn’t wanted.”

And that's all we know, I think.

Anyway, I'm working on headcannoning something for Geneighva, and maybe also for Friedrichshorfen (a city universally hated by dyslexics ).

I think I'm going to have some fun with that idea for a Stable I had shared a while back.

Sounds neat. :)

[Harmony Ltd.]

Anyway, I'm working on headcannoning something for Geneighva, and maybe also for Friedrichshorfen (a city universally hated by dyslexics ).

I think I'm going to have some fun with that idea for a Stable I had shared a while back.

Sounds neat. :)

Some rough / unrefined ideas :

Friedrichshorfen : Pre-Apocalypse, was an important industrial center for all things aeronautical. Mostly, it was where the Raptors and other pegasi ships where assembled. Sustained heavy balefire bombardment during the Apocalypse, but most of the facilities had been hardened, the bombs only succeeding in wiping the city from the map and not its "naval" yards (and also rendering the water of the river flowing into Hoofington heavily radioactive). Post-Apocalypse, the Enclave kept a close eye on the yards, going as far as making it one of the rare place in the Wasteland where they kept a permanent presence on the ground, to manufacture new spare parts for their ships, cities and industry. As a result of this presence, the ghouls and raider populations are virtually non-existent - the latter only starting to flow in the area after the fall of the Enclave. Though the remnants of the Enclave, the Isolationnists, are trying to re-assert their control over the area.

Geneighva : sitting in what Pre-Apocalypse was a lush landscape of alpine mountains, the city was specialized in fine mechanics and other high-precision industries - they where building the machines which would help build the machines. It was also one of Stable-Tec's most important center of operations. A number of prototype stables, not meant for actual "Stable Experiments" have been built in the surrounding mountains, testing the various excavation and construction techniques. As a result of this, a non-negligible proportion of the region's inhabitants managed to find a place in stables when Doom's Day came. Benefiting from their experience with excavating techniques, having the hardware to both dig and build and live underground, and with the benefit of both knowing each others and being united as stable-tec employees (or family members of Stable-tec employees), the various Stables started linking each others through underground tunnels, expanding their living space, and soon building whole underground cities under the mountains.

Thoughts ?

[O. Hinds]

Oh, when replying to CamoBadger, I realized that I'd forgotten to put something in my headcanon post above: I don't have lyrics for it, but I've got the state (national?) anthem of the Pax Roaman being "Ohe Zebrae".


@CamoBadger:
Well, I've got "Zebrica" being the name of the continent (which, technically, both includes Equestria and is no more a continent than Europe is, but eh), as indicated on my map, and the… maybe it would count as a nation? I'm not sure. By the end of the war, maybe...-- being the Pax Roamana. Is this related to how what I call "Roaman Zebra" is referred to by you as "unified Zebrican" (odd decapitalization included)? Hm… Thinking about it, I can see both names having pros and cons. "Roaman Zebra" gives the language's origin, but it doesn't actually say anything about Roam being the capital or indeed the language relating at all to a political entity. "unified Zebrican" doesn't mention where the center of the political entity is, but it does stress unity, for better or worse.

Your zebras seem much less varied than mine (probably being closest to my Central cultural group, but even there maybe being slightly less varied), but we seem to agree that there's still a lot of variety within the PR/Zebrica. Also, the benefit of having so much less variance in your Zebrica than in my PR is that you're able to define more of it. Yours is much more detailed, and I'm thinking that it would be a good fit for my Central cultural group (or, rather, most of it, there being variance).

As an aside, I was thinking yesterday that perhaps one of the reasons why Equestrians seem to be so speciesist is that they tend to regard themselves as a one-species nation (nevermind the cows, the donkeys, the zebras living there, the griffins…). This ties in with their refusal to leave the Highlands independent; there are ponies in the Highlands, so of course they ought to be Equestrian. The Pax Roamana, by contrast, deals with so much cultural variation within a single species, let alone outside it, that that sort of thinking doesn't really have roots (Get a Western civil engineer and a Central nomadic hunter together and tell them that, because of nothing more than their species, they ought to consider themselves part of the same nation. Don't worry about what to say next; you'll have time to ponder that while they're busy laughing.).

"For most, they fell into a more unified culture."
…Very interesting, given that I've got pretty much the opposite idea. The Pax Roamana was becoming steadily more homogenous and unified during and due to the war, but there was still quite clear variance left by the end. The the apocalypse shattered the Pax Roamana, that variance exploded, and Zebrica became at most only slightly more unified than it had been before the formation of the PR.

Now you're calling it the Pax Roamana too. I'm not sure why, but okay! We also seem to agree that one effect of the war was to increasingly unify the PR under Roaman executive authority, though we differ in the details and degree.

"In Remnant controlled societies, the groups generally fall into the second kind; they settle down in large villages or towns. However, they follow the Pax Roamana society more closely."
Hm… I was going to laugh uproariously at this, but it's actually curious to analyze. The Remnant certainly doesn't, at least as a whole, follow the ideas of the PR… but their attempts to unify zebrakind against a hostile outside world do, now that I think about it, seem similar. A bizarre blend of the Pax Roamana, its military culture, and Equestrian culture (for the Remnant is a child of Equestria just as much as it is of the PR, whether they admit it or not). They've lost quite a bit, but I've never thought of them quite this way before. Thanks!

[O. Hinds]

@Harmony Ltd.:
"For an NCR settlement of around 1000 people, it's usual to have 1 active Platoon being used to provide Law Enforcement, and to train the reservists : the NCR having Universal Conscription, every citizen in age to bear arms is trained to use them and to be mobilized into the Active Forces should the need arise (say, if the settlement is attacked for example)."
Hm, more common ground with the Principality of Gibhaltar, which is already predisposed to like the NCR.

"Any existing informations / headcanon on :

- St. Paulomino
- Stockhast
- Fancee
- Trottingham
- Stalliongrad
- Neighpon
- Kalcolta"
Well, Stalliongrad got some mentions in FoE, but I don't have any particular information or firm headcanon on the others. I do recall thinking that Kalcolta have have developed a post-apocalypse society including a caste system, but, if I did any detail work on that, I don't now remember it.

"Friedrichshorfen : Pre-Apocalypse, was an important industrial center for all things aeronautical. Mostly, it was where the Raptors and other pegasi ships where assembled. Sustained heavy balefire bombardment during the Apocalypse, but most of the facilities had been hardened, the bombs only succeeding in wiping the city from the map and not its "naval" yards (and also rendering the water of the river flowing into Hoofington heavily radioactive). Post-Apocalypse, the Enclave kept a close eye on the yards, going as far as making it one of the rare place in the Wasteland where they kept a permanent presence on the ground, to manufacture new spare parts for their ships, cities and industry. As a result of this presence, the ghouls and raider populations are virtually non-existent - the latter only starting to flow in the area after the fall of the Enclave. Though the remnants of the Enclave, the Isolationnists, are trying to re-assert their control over the area."
This varies between "Sounds good!" and "Um, no, that won't work at all." It's a vitally important point in both FoE and PH that the GPE isn't manufacturing new parts, except maybe in Shadowbolt tower and that mostly only very recently. They also invaded "the griffin skies" (which I decided meant the skies over the Highlands) for resources. They're not going down to the ground to make stuff.

"Geneighva : sitting in what Pre-Apocalypse was a lush landscape of alpine mountains, the city was specialized in fine mechanics and other high-precision industries - they where building the machines which would help build the machines. It was also one of Stable-Tec's most important center of operations. A number of prototype stables, not meant for actual "Stable Experiments" have been built in the surrounding mountains, testing the various excavation and construction techniques. As a result of this, a non-negligible proportion of the region's inhabitants managed to find a place in stables when Doom's Day came. Benefiting from their experience with excavating techniques, having the hardware to both dig and build and live underground, and with the benefit of both knowing each others and being united as stable-tec employees (or family members of Stable-tec employees), the various Stables started linking each others through underground tunnels, expanding their living space, and soon building whole underground cities under the mountains."
Interesting idea. Might be hard explaining how such a large underground settlement went unnoticed, though.
…Unless, of course, it went the way of Moria. I seem to recall speculating that El Dogrado was somewhere around there (based partly on Capri and Pisces's Underground Odyssey), and who knows what the geothurges were getting up to in the last days… [evilgrin]

"Thoughts ?"
Sorry about the delay; I wanted to reply to CamoBadger's post separately, given its length.

[CamoBadger]

Yeah, I'm still a little fuzzy about the whole "Pax Roamana vs Zebrica" thing. I've been thinking that the continent is called Zebrica, because that's what I've used, but sometimes I get it mixed up and just say Pax Roamana. I think a lot of it is that I've come to see the term Pax Roamana as being the unification of the zebras during the war and that has somewhat translated into being the term I use for the culture since I don't really know what else to call it.

And I guess I've missed a bit of what the Remnant is. In my thought, they still hold to at least what the Pax Roamana stood for and how they did things, but with a few changes after 2 centuries of being forced to adapt to the new world and being focused in Equestria as opposed to Zebrica. So they've got elements of the old Pax Roamana culture, but it's changed over time because of the different societal needs of the Wasteland as well as a different environment to adapt to (always pictured Equestria as more industrialized vs the whole of Zebrica, which is mostly tribal lands with some large city centers such as Roam).

And yes, I've always believed that one purpose of the Remnant, even if it doesn't seem obvious, is to unify zebra-kind again. Maybe not as much against ponies like during the war, but instead more as a way to preserve their kind and try to re-create the society as it was before the war. It may not be a major focus for them, but bringing at least most of the zebras into one group with common goals would be a good way to improve survivability in the Wasteland and stop at least some of the fighting that occurs (such as tribal conflict/group conflict over resources).

So I guess they aren't really much like the PR of wartime, but they do at least hold the belief that unified zebras are better than scattered groups in the long run. I get that they say their focus is only to fulfill the final orders of the Caesar, but honestly I have a hard time believing that to be true. Maybe when they first started out as a smaller group it could work, but as their numbers grew and their influence spread, new priorities came into view. After all, even those who are dedicated and possibly extreme in following that original goal have to start thinking about what will happen once they complete that mission.

I think I went on a ramble that makes absolutely no sense...

[Harmony Ltd.]

Hoffen : What about if they only invaded the city -after- the original FoE in a bid to sustain their own war effort, trying to scavenge things from the old yards after the Gardens got activated, cleaning the place from its deadly radiations ? The city was far out of reach for the NCR's forces.

The city having been heavily targeted by balefire bombs and being situated in the middle of what would be Equestria's equivalent of the Alps might explain why it hadn't been thoroughly scavenged yet ; and the Enclave Remnants occupying the ruins of the city might be a good way to introduce them in a story.


Geneighva : What I had in mind was less a giant bustling underground metropolis and more of a decently-sized community of spread out Stables linked together, and trying to stay under the radar. Heavily inspired by the Swiss, their neutrality, and their extensive network of fallout shelters.


Remind me what El-Dogado and geothurge are ?

[CamoBadger]

El-Dogado? Do you mean El Dorado?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Hinds wrote "El Dogrado"

[Ketchup]

Can't contribute anything that is meaningful because my view and memory of the FO:E setting are shoddy at best, these naming puns are painful.
Back to lurking.

[CamoBadger]

Probably the same thing just ponified.
If we're going off of mythology, El Dogrado (El Dorado) is a city made of solid gold. (I think they were... Aztec? in human mythology). I'm not sure if this is what he was referencing, but that's the background I know on it.

[O. Hinds]

@CamoBadger:
"Yeah, I'm still a little fuzzy about the whole "Pax Roamana vs Zebrica" thing. I've been thinking that the continent is called Zebrica, because that's what I've used, but sometimes I get it mixed up and just say Pax Roamana. I think a lot of it is that I've come to see the term Pax Roamana as being the unification of the zebras during the war and that has somewhat translated into being the term I use for the culture since I don't really know what else to call it. "
Ah, I see. Not my headcanon (which has the Pax Roamana predating the war by nearly 1.8 millenia), but I suppose that it could work.

"And I guess I've missed a bit of what the Remnant is. In my thought, they still hold to at least what the Pax Roamana stood for and how they did things, but with a few changes after 2 centuries of being forced to adapt to the new world and being focused in Equestria as opposed to Zebrica. So they've got elements of the old Pax Roamana culture, but it's changed over time because of the different societal needs of the Wasteland as well as a different environment to adapt to (always pictured Equestria as more industrialized vs the whole of Zebrica, which is mostly tribal lands with some large city centers such as Roam)."
Yeah, I'm seeing that the Remnant isn't (or at least most of it isn't) quite the betrayal of the Pax Roamana that I'd been thinking; they do still have some good qualities taken from it. Less than those that they've abandoned, but still.
The "Equestria more industrialized thing" seems to be another difference between us, though. While the Pax Roamana did have a lot of low-density unindustrialized (though still often supplied with industrial goods) areas, most of them in the Central cultural lands, my Pax Roamana is a thriving dieselpunk (with literal diesel) civilization.

"And yes, I've always believed that one purpose of the Remnant, even if it doesn't seem obvious, is to unify zebra-kind again. Maybe not as much against ponies like during the war, but instead more as a way to preserve their kind and try to re-create the society as it was before the war. It may not be a major focus for them, but bringing at least most of the zebras into one group with common goals would be a good way to improve survivability in the Wasteland and stop at least some of the fighting that occurs (such as tribal conflict/group conflict over resources). "
The unifying for survival thing makes sense…
"but instead more as a way to preserve their kind and try to re-create the society as it was before the war."
but this I do have to laugh it. They might believe that, sure, but it's bleedingly obvious that that's not true. The Remnant is a child of the Pax Roamana, but it's also a child of Equestria; I mean, their de facto official language is Pony! The Remnant are not one of the old cultures, nor are they they sort of federation of groups that the Pax Roamana was. They are descended from a military force and from refugees taken under that force's umbrella, and they are to this day shaped both by that and by the formerly-enemy land that is their home. They are not necessarily bad (though at the moment… some of their goals, methods, and internal policies or lack thereof might be charitably called questionable), but they are something new, not a recreation of something old.

"So I guess they aren't really much like the PR of wartime, but they do at least hold the belief that unified zebras are better than scattered groups in the long run. I get that they say their focus is only to fulfill the final orders of the Caesar, but honestly I have a hard time believing that to be true. Maybe when they first started out as a smaller group it could work, but as their numbers grew and their influence spread, new priorities came into view. After all, even those who are dedicated and possibly extreme in following that original goal have to start thinking about what will happen once they complete that mission."
Right; it's a cultural artifact that has stuck around mostly because it's still part of the defining doctrine. The group has changed, but its description of itself has not. Of course, complicating matters is the fact that there are members of the Remnant who to one degree or another believe the description.
Interestingly, a shift in this could lead to a reconciliation with the Miliozi, which would have all sorts of potential consequences.

"I think I went on a ramble that makes absolutely no sense..."
No, it made sense; your posts today have already lead me to realize things about the Remnant that I hadn't before.


@Harmony Ltd.:
"Hoffen : What about if they only invaded the city -after- the original FoE in a bid to sustain their own war effort, trying to scavenge things from the old yards after the Gardens got activated, cleaning the place from its deadly radiations ? The city was far out of reach for the NCR's forces.

The city having been heavily targeted by balefire bombs and being situated in the middle of what would be Equestria's equivalent of the Alps might explain why it hadn't been thoroughly scavenged yet ; and the Enclave Remnants occupying the ruins of the city might be a good way to introduce them in a story."
Oh, aye, that would work; once the block on returning to the surface is lifted, why not head down? And they've got anti-radiation gear and possible access codes far beyond what's available to the average scavenger even before Gardens fires.

"Geneighva : What I had in mind was less a giant bustling underground metropolis and more of a decently-sized community of spread out Stables linked together, and trying to stay under the radar. Heavily inspired by the Swiss, their neutrality, and their extensive network of fallout shelters."
Aye, I got the inspiration. :)
If they're trying to stay under the radar and are only a "city" by Wasteland standards, that could work. I still like the "But they dug too greedily and too deep…" idea, though.


@Harmony Ltd. and CamoBadger:
"Remind me what El-Dogado and geothurge are ?"
"El-Dogado? Do you mean El Dorado?"
El Dogrado, capital of the ancient diamond dog empire that originally ruled the Equestrian Peninsula, or at least its underground. Friction and conflict built steadily with the Northern Zebras until the empire was finally defeated. That was only a few decades before the Northern Zebra civilizations own near-fall, of course, and it was the subsequent near-total abandonment of the peninsula that allowed the pony refugees from the freezing north to settle there.
The diamond dog empire made heavy use of geothurges, practitioners of the now-lost (apparently) arts of diamond dog magic.

[O. Hinds]

Probably the same thing just ponified.
If we're going off of mythology, El Dogrado (El Dorado) is a city made of solid gold. (I think they were... Aztec? in human mythology). I'm not sure if this is what he was referencing, but that's the background I know on it.

Actually, wasn't the Native American mythology referring to a golden man, not a golden city? I'm not sure.

Anyway, though, El Dogrado was a city of great wealth, particularly in terms of valuable minerals and often-enchanted gems.

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