Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Moodyman90]

Sooo...I finally took my car in today to see what was wrong with it, since myself and my family couldn't narrow down and fix the problem ourselves.

Diagnosis: Thrown rod.
Treatment: New engine.
Cost: My entire tax return.

...Pardon me while I scream into a pillow for an hour.

The moment I saw "Thrown rod" the feeling of dread and shared pain knocked me out of my chair.

[O. Hinds]

@WovenTales:
"I can work with that. Sounds like it's not going to be a regular part of their route, but would definitely be quite profitable on those occasions they have good enough stock to make the trip. And with as important as Masozi is (even if they do little externally when we see them), making it stand out from every other town they go through is nice. Sounds like it could give some good backstory as well, both on why the caravan actually trusts those trigger-happy zebras not to shoot them in the back, and how they got visas through the land controlled by those even more trigger-happy pegasi. I imagine there's going to be quite the politics going on to get through the GPE groundspace even before they reach the city."
I'm not sure if you've slightly misunderstood or had an idea that I haven't. I don't think that the GPE actually has any more of a ground presence around Masozi than they do in most of the rest of the Wasteland; there are some observation posts up in the clouds and mostly focused on the city, but not much beyond that. The Enclave doesn't really care about a few Wasteland traders or whatever. Though, now that you've put the idea into my head, I suppose that they might inspect any particularly interesting Wastelanders… such as those with the sort of rare information or tech (or possibly large amounts of gems) that the Miliozi would be willing to trade for… Huh. I never thought of this before. I'm not sure exactly how active the GPE border would be (it probably wouldn't be visible, for one thing, but that doesn't mean much when pegasi can just swoop down from above)… Partly, I'm rather tired at the moment due to a long day of work and too little sleep. This may have potential, though.

"while I don't think anything's said that there's one there, it would make sense"
No, Fillydelphia definitely has a tower; it was one of the mission objectives on the FoE trip to the city.

re spacing: Hey, thanks for doing the work! And hooray for happy coincidences!

"Yeah, definitely using the Wasteland scale of city size. The one I'm planning would would probably be somewhere outside the GPE-controlled area—I doubt they'd be particularly likely to set up a slave trade on the scale I'm imagining for my story (which is what the city is for; I'd rather not have the headquarters be in the middle of nowhere). Still, I'd be a bit surprised if there wasn't a ground-based or -tethered pegasus settlement somewhere around the bay. Might be even more militarized than normal, depending on how active the groundspace is, but there'd probably be something."
Well, I'm not sure about that placing, actually. Sure, the GPE is against slavery in theory, but they didn't exactly rush to do anything about even Fillydelphia. The Miliozi, on the other hand, while I don't think that they're explicitly against slavery (not quite sure; while I know that they definitely don't keep slaves themselves, that's not quite the same thing), would be very interested in another settlement outside their control, in their territory, and using their resources (particularly if the city is making use of the bay at all), and none of the other Alliance members would have reason to reign them in. I highly doubt that Wasteland slaver guards would stand much of a chance against the Miliozi (bandits armed with rusty shotguns vs. trained-from-foalhood soldiers equipped with fully functional tanks, artillery, air support, warships… Yeah, I'm not seeing the slavers winning that one). Also… it strikes me that the city might perhaps prove useful to the GPE as an information source.

"This slightly relates to a question I have. How well will those zebra-pegasus treaties, formal or not, be followed after Littlepip takes the SPP? I'm guessing that the groundspace—as one of the few places the GPE knows will not disappear underneath them—is going to get quite a number of new immigrants, and with enough of a push (especially if tensions are already raw over the hellhounds or something else) might attack, or at the least lay siege to, Masozi, but it sounds like it's something you would have thought about. Or is that one of the things waiting on PH to finish?"
Ah, yes, you did misunderstand earlier. The GPE's groundspace isn't just the area around San Frantello Bay; it's the entire area under the cloud ceiling (though because that's a useful defining feature, not because of the ceiling itself). There's also no particular reason why they'd think that the ground around Masozi was particularly secure, since, unless they've intervened, it's just like the rest of the Wasteland. After all, the Alliance not getting involved to attack doesn't mean that they'll get involved to defend it (indeed, the phrase "hungry grins" comes to mind when pondering most of the Alliance's reaction to the sight of the GPE collapsing, though the use of Celestia On and the activation of the SPP are met with worry in certain quarters).

The details of the Alliance's response to the events at the end of FoE are indeed among the things that I'm waiting for the end of PH to lay out more fully. I have thought of a bit, though. First, semi-random bit of headcanon, I'm thinking that a Raptor might actually, seeing which way the wind is blowing, defect to the Alliance. Second, Masozi is probably going to have gone to high alert as soon as word about Operation Cauterize went out, and I'm not sure when they dropped the alert status. Third, I'm not yet sure when it is yet, but there will be a time when the Alliance ceases to recognize the GPE as an extant state… which means that the prohibitions against operating in what used to be GPE groundspace now weigh less than the paper they're printed on. I'm not sure exactly what the results of that will be, though; sorry.

If there was a GPE attack on Masozi, though, while the city was on high alert… it would be very, very bloody. Friendship city had some pre-apocalypse guns, and it did pretty well against some Raptors. Masozi has lots and lots of shiny new computer-guided AAA and SAM batteries, wings of jet fighters ready to take to the air (some of them inside ZELL capsules), a highly trained, disciplined, and armed citizenry, war robots, etc., not to mention that declaring war against an Alliance state, let along one of the two power centers of the Alliance, is a declaration of war against the entire Alliance. The GPE could probably heavily damage Masozi, by dropping gravity bombs if nothing else, but… yeah, like I said, it would be very bloody.

re map:
Nice! Very, very nice! Thanks! I note that you've chosen to leave the Highlands uncovered too; might I ask why?

[O. Hinds]

Oh, and also the northern islands.

[Ironmonger]

*Jumps through the window, leaves a video, then jumps back out and lands on a cat*

[RoboRed]

That ending still cracks me up.

[Guest]

I'll just leave this here

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/exxChCHwjWE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Ironmonger]

@Guard

>Desperately climbs back into his warp portal in terror.

[Moodyman90]

Tiny Tim always cracks me up.

[WovenTales]

*snip*:

Ah, yes, you did misunderstand earlier. The GPE's groundspace isn't just the area around San Frantello Bay; it's the entire area under the cloud ceiling (though because that's a useful defining feature, not because of the ceiling itself). There's also no particular reason why they'd think that the ground around Masozi was particularly secure, since, unless they've intervened, it's just like the rest of the Wasteland. After all, the Alliance not getting involved to attack doesn't mean that they'll get involved to defend it (indeed, the phrase "hungry grins" comes to mind when pondering most of the Alliance's reaction to the sight of the GPE collapsing, though the use of Celestia On and the activation of the SPP are met with worry in certain quarters).

Yeah, I'll take the blame for that misunderstanding. I somehow got it into my head that "the Alliance" was referring to a group that included the NCR, among others (zebras definitely a large part of it), and mainly active after Sunshine and Rainbows. Clearing that up, I agree with the pegasi not finding anything particularly special about the area around the bay. They'd actually probably be more likely to stay out of it, as the treaties would consider it not part of their groundspace. Although, does that mean that the Alliance essentially considers nearly all of Equestria as under the control of the GPE? Otherwise, I think I might be missing something else.

@WovenTales:

*snip*:

I'm not sure if you've slightly misunderstood or had an idea that I haven't. I don't think that the GPE actually has any more of a ground presence around Masozi than they do in most of the rest of the Wasteland; there are some observation posts up in the clouds and mostly focused on the city, but not much beyond that. The Enclave doesn't really care about a few Wasteland traders or whatever. Though, now that you've put the idea into my head, I suppose that they might inspect any particularly interesting Wastelanders… such as those with the sort of rare information or tech (or possibly large amounts of gems) that the Miliozi would be willing to trade for… Huh. I never thought of this before. I'm not sure exactly how active the GPE border would be (it probably wouldn't be visible, for one thing, but that doesn't mean much when pegasi can just swoop down from above)… Partly, I'm rather tired at the moment due to a long day of work and too little sleep. This may have potential, though.

Well, at least it gave you something to think about, and there's some good points in your musings. Coming out of this with something interesting to explore and nothing hurt, I'd say the misunderstanding was an inadvertent success.

"while I don't think anything's said that there's one there, it would make sense"
No, Fillydelphia definitely has a tower; it was one of the mission objectives on the FoE trip to the city.

Ah, well that just helps the map. I was mainly trying to remember if Murky saw anything, but it sounds like I need to get back to rereading FoE.

*snip*:

Well, I'm not sure about that placing, actually. Sure, the GPE is against slavery in theory, but they didn't exactly rush to do anything about even Fillydelphia. The Miliozi, on the other hand, while I don't think that they're explicitly against slavery (not quite sure; while I know that they definitely don't keep slaves themselves, that's not quite the same thing), would be very interested in another settlement outside their control, in their territory, and using their resources (particularly if the city is making use of the bay at all), and none of the other Alliance members would have reason to reign them in. I highly doubt that Wasteland slaver guards would stand much of a chance against the Miliozi (bandits armed with rusty shotguns vs. trained-from-foalhood soldiers equipped with fully functional tanks, artillery, air support, warships… Yeah, I'm not seeing the slavers winning that one). Also… it strikes me that the city might perhaps prove useful to the GPE as an information source.

With my new knowledge that I had "GPE groundspace" completely backwards, it sounds like you don't really disagree with where I thought I was placing the headquarters. Especially since they're staying rather far away from the bay. Not as far as they can get, though; Dawn Bay wouldn't be nearly as profitable. And the rest of this is mostly confusion on one end or the other, though it does give me a nice picture of the Miliozi army.

The details of the Alliance's response to the events at the end of FoE are indeed among the things that I'm waiting for the end of PH to lay out more fully. I have thought of a bit, though. First, semi-random bit of headcanon, I'm thinking that a Raptor might actually, seeing which way the wind is blowing, defect to the Alliance. Second, Masozi is probably going to have gone to high alert as soon as word about Operation Cauterize went out, and I'm not sure when they dropped the alert status. Third, I'm not yet sure when it is yet, but there will be a time when the Alliance ceases to recognize the GPE as an extant state… which means that the prohibitions against operating in what used to be GPE groundspace now weigh less than the paper they're printed on. I'm not sure exactly what the results of that will be, though; sorry.

If there was a GPE attack on Masozi, though, while the city was on high alert… it would be very, very bloody. Friendship city had some pre-apocalypse guns, and it did pretty well against some Raptors. Masozi has lots and lots of shiny new computer-guided AAA and SAM batteries, wings of jet fighters ready to take to the air (some of them inside ZELL capsules), a highly trained, disciplined, and armed citizenry, war robots, etc., not to mention that declaring war against an Alliance state, let along one of the two power centers of the Alliance, is a declaration of war against the entire Alliance. The GPE could probably heavily damage Masozi, by dropping gravity bombs if nothing else, but… yeah, like I said, it would be very bloody.

Sounds like the kind of thing my characters would like to stay away from. I wonder if I can convince/coerce them to go uncomfortably close to the (not-so-)pretty lightshow. But, yeah, let's see what happens.

re map:
Nice! Very, very nice! Thanks! I note that you've chosen to leave the Highlands uncovered too; might I ask why?

The highlands were uncovered because I wasn't sure how strong of a border that was; if it wasn't officially considered part of Equestria, they might not have thought it was worth spending the time and bits to extend the clouds over it. The northern islands were mostly because I was getting lazy. Anyway, here's another version, covering all of Equestria this time and using smaller towers to fill gaps (90km and 60km radii). Again, this is more of an approximation. I don't have a way to account for wind, and the towers would probably be designed with this closer to the minimum area affected, instead of the standard.

Spoiler:

It worked out even more nicely this time. Trottingham, St. Paulomino, Stockhast, Geneighva, Friedrichshorfen, Kalcolta, and New Oatleans are the only shown cities without a tower. Still quite the list, but at least we've only really heard about two of them, as far as I know. No it doesn't mean much, but I'll take what I can get.

Well, I'm beginning to get rambly enough that I should probably get to sleep. If anyone's still on, have a nice night/day!

[Harmony Ltd.]

Anyone here remember how far the community of Junction (the place the 10-years-after epilogue takes place in) is supposed to be from Shattered Hoof / New Canterlot ?

Also, what's the geography of the area ? I was under the impression Junction was in a valley between two low hills, and that Shattered Hoof was in some kind of plain.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Hinds, how interested would the Alliance be by the idea of importing lots and lots fresh food from the NCR ?

I was thinking that after the Gardens, the NCR, with the help of earth pony magic and the control over the climate offered by the SPP, would have the potential to become an agricultural super-power.

[O. Hinds]

@WovenTales:
"Yeah, I'll take the blame for that misunderstanding. I somehow got it into my head that "the Alliance" was referring to a group that included the NCR, among others (zebras definitely a large part of it), and mainly active after Sunshine and Rainbows. Clearing that up, I agree with the pegasi not finding anything particularly special about the area around the bay. They'd actually probably be more likely to stay out of it, as the treaties would consider it not part of their groundspace. Although, does that mean that the Alliance essentially considers nearly all of Equestria as under the control of the GPE? Otherwise, I think I might be missing something else."
Not considers so much as officially recognizes. The Alliance is well aware that the GPE has little interest in and even less actual control over its groundspace.

"Well, at least it gave you something to think about, and there's some good points in your musings. Coming out of this with something interesting to explore and nothing hurt, I'd say the misunderstanding was an inadvertent success."
Agreed.

"Ah, well that just helps the map. I was mainly trying to remember if Murky saw anything, but it sounds like I need to get back to rereading FoE."
Hm. You know, I don't recall MN7 mentioning the tower. Then again, I suppose that Murky has things on his mind besides mentioning that big white tower that never does anything and that slaves never got to.

"With my new knowledge that I had "GPE groundspace" completely backwards, it sounds like you don't really disagree with where I thought I was placing the headquarters. Especially since they're staying rather far away from the bay. Not as far as they can get, though; Dawn Bay wouldn't be nearly as profitable. And the rest of this is mostly confusion on one end or the other, though it does give me a nice picture of the Miliozi army."
Ah, alright then (if I'm understanding you correctly). Yes, as long as they stay under the GPE, they don't need to worry about the Alliance. (Though if they annoy the Alliance, which, since they're not using the bay, doesn't seem likely, they'd better be sure that they as individuals don't leave GPE groudspace.)
:)
Oh, in case you hadn't picked up on it, "groundspace" is basically the reverse of "airspace"; instead of being the air above a state on land, it's the land under a state in the air (The Alliance also officially recognizes the airspace between the ground and the cloud ceiling, which is usually lobbed in with the groundspace, and the airspace above the GPE (After all, the Vetribi taking off from Masozi engage their cloaks in Alliance airspace, and you can't prove where they go after that…).).
Also, you don't really need to say "the Miliozi army", as the active Miliozi military is considered to consist of every single member of the Miliozi old enough to kick (though discipline is relaxed somewhat for foals).

"Sounds like the kind of thing my characters would like to stay away from. I wonder if I can convince/coerce them to go uncomfortably close to the (not-so-)pretty lightshow. But, yeah, let's see what happens."
Aye, don't do anything about that until we see how PH ends; there is, I think, too much risk of conflict.

"The highlands were uncovered because I wasn't sure how strong of a border that was; if it wasn't officially considered part of Equestria, they might not have thought it was worth spending the time and bits to extend the clouds over it. The northern islands were mostly because I was getting lazy. Anyway, here's another version, covering all of Equestria this time and using smaller towers to fill gaps (90km and 60km radii). Again, this is more of an approximation. I don't have a way to account for wind, and the towers would probably be designed with this closer to the minimum area affected, instead of the standard."
Well, I have doubts that Equestria actually draws a border there at all, just I suspect that their maps have the prime meridian running through Canterlot (or maybe Trottingham? I don't know) instead of Roam. :)

"It worked out even more nicely this time. Trottingham, St. Paulomino, Stockhast, Geneighva, Friedrichshorfen, Kalcolta, and New Oatleans are the only shown cities without a tower. Still quite the list, but at least we've only really heard about two of them, as far as I know. No it doesn't mean much, but I'll take what I can get."
Hey, thanks!
Oh, and New Oatleans is from All That Remains, in case you didn't know.
Oh, wait, this map won't work. How did Equestria manage to get a tower built at Dawn Bay when the area was under Zebra control from before the SPP was conceived to the end of the war?


@Harmony Ltd.:
"Anyone here remember how far the community of Junction (the place the 10-years-after epilogue takes place in) is supposed to be from Shattered Hoof / New Canterlot ?"
Well, my map has it as about 10.5 to 11 klicks straight-line.

"Also, what's the geography of the area ? I was under the impression Junction was in a valley between two low hills, and that Shattered Hoof was in some kind of plain."
Where are you getting that from? I don't remember anything like that.

"Hinds, how interested would the Alliance be by the idea of importing lots and lots fresh food from the NCR ?

I was thinking that after the Gardens, the NCR, with the help of earth pony magic and the control over the climate offered by the SPP, would have the potential to become an agricultural super-power."
Not at all interested, sorry. They're running their own, expanding, agricultural operations in the recolonization, and they're trying to gain control of the NCR, not the other way around. Importing food from the NCR means dependence on the NCR and less work in the Alliance heartland.

Incidentally, what are your thoughts on the economy of the NCR? I've been thinking that they're probably a protectionist free market.

[Valikdu]

And the grand prize goes to Electronic Arts.
http://consumerist.com/2013/04/09/ea-makes-worst-company-in-america-history-wins-title-for-second-year-in-a-row/

Second year in a row, that's... quite an achievement.

[Harmony Ltd.]

re Agriculture :

That was my impression as well (the Alliance lacking interest in such an agreement), but I wanted to make sure.

On the other hand, I could see the NCR shipping its agricultural surplus to every other neighboring powers free of charge, as "humanitarian aid" (really just an attempt to buy people's sympathy and loyalty through their plates).


Concerning the economy of the NCR I'll need to run a timeline to try to determine the most likely outcome, but at a guess :

It "started" as a wartime economy where pretty much every available resources where mobilized on the conflict against the Bitters, and became more relaxed as the war lost in intensity, until the point where the mobilisation was only nominal.

The nascent agricultural sector was tended to by "volunteers" (young and old citizens, and combat-unfit conscripts), the distribution of the foods being handled by the "logistics corp" of the NCR Army (the term is used pretty loosely here : it was mostly conscripted caravaneers and their escorts).

Same things for the making of the guns, ammunitions, uniforms, medical supplies... and pretty much anything deemed necessary to the war effort.

The principal reason why people accepted to work that hard without being paid more with anything else than with token currency (NCR Bits), and incidentally the prime factor motivating people to rally the Republic, was quite simple : free food and protection from the crazy genocidal bastards. And also, no slavery. When you have lived in the Wasteland for all your life, I'm ready to bet this would be seen as a reason enough to join the Republic, and a pretty damn good one at that.

Privately owned activities were authorized, and somewhat encouraged, but given there wasn't much to trade at first (pretty much everyone being mobilized one way or another), and that anything people would have needed would have been classified as necessary to the war effort (and as such suggested to the same kind of regulatuon as foods and ammo), it wasn't only after the war started to wind down that a private economic sector started to become a reality. The only real part of the economy that was privately owned and propsere during the worst of the wartime economy was the Saloons, bars, hotels and others places of "relaxation", to keep people's morale up.

It's only with the end of the war that the wartime mobilization officially ended. Though by that time the private sector had become a reality, and in fact was more prospere than ever before due to the trades routes being much more secures and easy to travel than they had been during the two previous centuries.


A few details :

- Slavery is officially outlawed inside the territories of the NCR, and the Republic tend to see a power using slavery or supporting it as a justified excuse for a takeover / an invasion. It's not so much for ideological reasons than the fact they depend on Littlepip managing the weather, and she kind of frown on the practice. But at least it gives them a good image with people who aren't slavers or who don't depend on the practice for their living.
- Everyone being guaranteed at least two meals a day is one of the foundations of the Republic, and as such food is either subsidized (which birthed the "Hay Barons", those with big farms profiting from these subsidies and using the money to buy their way into the government of the NCR), or given free of charge to the poorest.
- The Followers of the Apocalypse are partially subsidized by the Republic, tasked by it to offer care to every citizens. The war forced the Republic to invest heavily into healing potions, med-x and hydra production lines, but even then medical supplies are still short in... supply. Especially given the population of the Republic is starting to skyrocket by 30 A.S (the demographic shift really started around 15 or 20 A.S as things finally began to settle).


Oh, yes, a thing :

It is expected that the population will double every thirty years in the foreseeable future : the population of the NCR territories is already in 30 A.S 1.5 times what it was in 1 A.S (this number would be higher if so many people hadn't died during the war). And currently (30 A.S), a third of the population is kids (blank-flanked colts and fillies, griffin younglings, etc...).

If this high natality is something that's kinda wanted these days (because the war killed a lot of people, and the Republic needs lots of helping arms/hooves to help rebuild Equestria), someday in the future this could start to become a problem. But not in this generation or the next.

Anyway, what this means is that if you adventured in your standard NCR settlements, there'd be lots of kids running around.

The Republic tasked the Followers of the Apocalypse to take the role of teaching the kids how to read, counts, and generally be good citizens.

For the more advanced stuff, there's a few academies in New Canterlot, the most famous being the Military Academy : it takes in charge the education of the war orphans, and train them to become NCOs and officers. The Applejack Rangers have an academy teaching technical stuff in New Canterlot ; and the Twilight Society, always ready to do anything to annoy everyone else, opened its own academy to teach magic, but in Tenpony - Manehatten.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Also, as a direct consequence of the War Mobilization, one of the first part of the Republic's administration to have been established, and it's most solid backbone these days,

is the Tax-Collectors / Wealth Inspectors corp.

Most commonly known as the Department of Redistribution, or often dubbed as the "Ministry of Sharing / Theft", depending on your point of view.



First thing to come back when you rebuild Civilization ? The Tax Collectors.

Talk about irony.

[Harmony Ltd.]

But in short, around 30 A.S you could say that the NCR is a "Protectionnist Free Market", yes, with the NCR trying to protect what it deems its vital interests.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Also Hinds, would it be possible to have a version of your map that isn't just barely distinguishable shades of green ? I can't make the distinction between "mountains", "desert", etc...

And also add a scale bar to make life easier to those who don't want to have to chase the pixels to have an idea of the scale of the map. Just trace a 100 pixel long line and say it is a 60 km reference.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Also also, there's two things I have difficulties wrapping my head around :

- Why is the Pax Roamana so fucking huge compared to Equestria ?
- Wasn't the Zebra homeland supposed to be some kind of archipelago according to Kkat ?


Bear with me, I haven't been following the I think pretty much literal at this point half hundred thousand posts of the commentary thread ; and so don't have a precise vision of your headcanon.

[RoboRed]

And the grand prize goes to Electronic Arts.
http://consumerist.com/2013/04/09/ea-makes-worst-company-in-america-history-wins-title-for-second-year-in-a-row/

Second year in a row, that's... quite an achievement.

...I'm not sure if I even want to laugh anymore...


So, I'll move my laughter elsewhere:

daily lulz:

[O. Hinds]

@Harmony Ltd.:
"On the other hand, I could see the NCR shipping its agricultural surplus to every other neighboring powers free of charge, as "humanitarian aid" (really just an attempt to buy people's sympathy and loyalty through their plates)."
Aye, and where there aren't preexisting powers there'd be, eventually, NCR "aid camps".

re economy:
I don't see the NCR's origins as being as military as you do (though you might be right there) and don't really have the fate of the GPE settled in my head, but, given your stated premises, that sounds logical.

The Alliance has similar "High population growth is good!" thing regarding its recolonization efforts (though there are those who worry that this may be diluting the cultures of the various member states). I've not pinned down most of the Alliance's educational system, but I've decided that Profectum decided to start a university.

"Also Hinds, would it be possible to have a version of your map that isn't just barely distinguishable shades of green ? I can't make the distinction between "mountains", "desert", etc..."
I doubt it, sorry. I tried color modification once when someone else requested such a thing, but it wasn't very successful.

"And also add a scale bar to make life easier to those who don't want to have to chase the pixels to have an idea of the scale of the map. Just trace a 100 pixel long line and say it is a 60 km reference."
I guess that I could add one, but how would that be more useful? It just adds more steps to finding the km/px ratio. Though I suppose that it could be useful for resizing the image…

"Also also, there's two things I have difficulties wrapping my head around :

- Why is the Pax Roamana so fucking huge compared to Equestria ?
- Wasn't the Zebra homeland supposed to be some kind of archipelago according to Kkat ?"
In reverse order:
I don't remember anything about that, and it's not in the post from Kkat that I have saved.
My view is that the Pax Roamana (and its ancestors) has been where it is for longer and been more interested in expansion during that time. My timeline doesn't have ponies even arriving on the peninsula until around 180 years after the founding of the Pax Roamana. Then the colonists were too weak to push into the lands occupied by the PR, then Discord arrived, and the the Princesses descended and began guiding Equestria. They don't strike me as being too keen to make war on the zebras, and Equestria was anyway quite bountiful. Oh, I'll repost the rough timeline below for anyone who's interested.

Very Rough Partial Timeline:

[CamoBadger]

Also also, there's two things I have difficulties wrapping my head around :

- Why is the Pax Roamana so fucking huge compared to Equestria ?

I picture it as a larger landmass, but the residents are more spread out through it with massive tracks of land that are uninhabited.

- Wasn't the Zebra homeland supposed to be some kind of archipelago according to Kkat ?

I don't know.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Here, I did the job for you of adding a scale : https://imgur.com/YIZKmtv

10 MB uncompressed PNG => https://www.dropbox.com/s/fm8cbssw7aav3pb/hinds_equestria_map_v1_9_by_reese8-d4sw4uo_withscale.png

[Harmony Ltd.]

From far away, it seems like a miracle that the Zebra didn't steamroll Equestria during the War...

[Harmony Ltd.]

Re map scale : "but how would that be more useful?"

=> for people who want to have a rough idea of the scale at first glance without having to use gimp to count the number of pixels.

Trust me, I've been (metaphorically) yelled at enough during my single year as a geography student about how to draw a map to tell you that.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, I see the origine of the NCR as "military" in the same sense that the origin of the USA is "military" :

Both had to fight for their own existence from the very beginning, the major difference being that where the USA only risked staying a British Colony, the NCR's citizens risked utter annihilation at the hand of genocidal warmongers. So the degree of dedication they had to their fight was proportional to the menace they were fighting against.

This in turn greatly influenced the organization of the NCR as a political entity, and neatly explain how it could have managed to unite the Wasteland, first against a common enemy, and then as a superpower relative to the size and military power of every other power in the Equestrian Peninsula (with maybe the exception of your zebras).

Also, put "military" between quotes, because it was less the idea we make ourselves of a military, and more the Wasteland trying to (re-)learn Warfare at scales which hadn't been seen since the War that ended the World two centuries ago. There was a lot of trial and error involved : like I said, until the Volunteers decided to intervene directly on the side of the Surfacers against the Bitters, every battle saw horrible casualty figures for the former, only the power of desperation holding the NCR's forces (not an army yet) together.


Question : when would the Gardens have been activated ? I was thinking that it would have taken a few month to one year after the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows to find all the Bearers of the Elements of Harmony and bring them to Spike's Cave.

The thing is that the longer that wait would have been, the more probable it would have been that the Enclave (until the end of 1 A.S) and then the Bitters would have attacked the cave in full force - at least to kill Spike, to avenge the attack against Neighvarro.


The "time limit" I have is that it would take around one year in my idea for the Grand Pegasus Enclave to implode from the dissensions between the supporters of the continuation of Operation Cauterize and their adversaries. After that date, the Enclave cease to exist as a coherent political entity, and there's only the Bitters on one side, the Volunteers on the other lending their wings to the surfacers in the fight against the Bitters, and the Isolationists in the middle trying to salvage the Enclave from the Civil War (or at least to ensure the continuation of their way of life). And the Bitters sure as hell wouldn't have lost the occasion to attack Spike's cave, just out of spite.



By the way, the Isolationnists, after a treaty with Littlepip, would be trying to build a Neo-Cloudsdale - still under construction in 30 A.S. They get their food from the ground as "humanitarian aid" from the Republic - a way to keep the peace, as long as everyone stay behind their side of the line.

They still call themselves the Grand Pegasus Enclave, by the way. Many people snicker when saying the "Grand" part of the title.




The fact that the NCR in large part owe its survival to the help given by the Volunteers did wonder to rehabilitate the pegasi in the eyes of most of its citizens. There's still some degree of distrust, going both ways (you don't change generations of resentments in a few years), but the Veterans of the war, having fought side by side, have learned to respect each other.

[RoboRed]

Alrighty, time for a serious post.

Going back to the HiE stories subject for a moment, I just finished Best of All Possible Worlds. Fantastic story.

I figured I'd throw out some other decent or decently-shaping HiE fics:
The Secret Case-Book of Sherlock Holmes - Sherlock in Equestria. Just awesome.
Just Passing Through - Cutesey, more of an artwork story, but it seems to be developing a plot. Uses little dialogue.
History Repeats - A crisis brings Megan (from G1 MLP) into Equestria, but it's been many years later for her. Part from description: "When a vicious and powerful enemy older than any Twilight, her friends, or even the Princesses have faced before returns, they will have to reach out to an ally just as ancient for help... but is she still the heroine she once was?" Nicely grimdark.

[Harmony Ltd.]

random :

Spoiler:

http://derpiboo.ru/294081

[O. Hinds]

@Harmony Ltd:
Eh, okay; I added a scale bar.

"From far away, it seems like a miracle that the Zebra didn't steamroll Equestria during the War..."
Equestria has a high population density and productivity for its size.

"Well, I see the origine of the NCR as "military" in the same sense that the origin of the USA is "military" :

Both had to fight for their own existence from the very beginning, the major difference being that where the USA only risked staying a British Colony, the NCR's citizens risked utter annihilation at the hand of genocidal warmongers. So the degree of dedication they had to their fight was proportional to the menace they were fighting against.

This in turn greatly influenced the organization of the NCR as a political entity, and neatly explain how it could have managed to unite the Wasteland, first against a common enemy, and then as a superpower relative to the size and military power of every other power in the Equestrian Peninsula (with maybe the exception of your zebras).

Also, put "military" between quotes, because it was less the idea we make ourselves of a military, and more the Wasteland trying to (re-)learn Warfare at scales which hadn't been seen since the War that ended the World two centuries ago. There was a lot of trial and error involved : like I said, until the Volunteers decided to intervene directly on the side of the Surfacers against the Bitters, every battle saw horrible casualty figures for the former, only the power of desperation holding the NCR's forces (not an army yet) together."
Ah, I see.

"Question : when would the Gardens have been activated ? I was thinking that it would have taken a few month to one year after the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows to find all the Bearers of the Elements of Harmony and bring them to Spike's Cave."
That I'm not sure of (again, waiting for the end of PH), but your ideas (which I've not bothered to quote) sound interesting.

[O. Hinds]

Alrighty, time for a serious post.

Going back to the HiE stories subject for a moment, I just finished Best of All Possible Worlds. Fantastic story.

I figured I'd throw out some other decent or decently-shaping HiE fics:
The Secret Case-Book of Sherlock Holmes - Sherlock in Equestria. Just awesome.
Just Passing Through - Cutesey, more of an artwork story, but it seems to be developing a plot. Uses little dialogue.
History Repeats - A crisis brings Megan (from G1 MLP) into Equestria, but it's been many years later for her. Part from description: "When a vicious and powerful enemy older than any Twilight, her friends, or even the Princesses have faced before returns, they will have to reach out to an ally just as ancient for help... but is she still the heroine she once was?" Nicely grimdark.

There are also these:
ARTICLE 2
Arrow 18 Mission Logs
A18ML companion story

[IncoherentOrange]

It's common that I see people say that there are hardly any good HiE-type stories, but it's simply not the case. Sturgeon's Law applies just as much.
A long, long time ago I read some of What Separates, and I enjoyed it quite much. Not quite sure how I'd think of it now. I don't really read or write things anymore. Just not feeling it. It'll probably come back to me eventually.
...Oh, and a PH fan favorited my story. I'm thinking of sending him this way, since discussion.

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