Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Ironmonger]

I'll probably be ripping off the one ring that alicorn amulet thing for my story. It just gave me a way to explain Lord Wrought Iron's alicornism...maybe...you know what I don't know. *teleports away*

[Caoimhe]

It's interesting how Trixie's post-Ponyville story pretty much was written as it was in vanilla FoE as well.

[Ironmonger]

I don't notice that kind of stuff unless I'm actually looking for it. I'm more the "Monster trucks! Steak! Beer! Guns!" stereotypical guy. x)

[O. Hinds]

Latest Episode Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I never thought much of the zebras until I got into reading some of Hinds stuff. That man is a freaking genius.

Thank you, though I'm not sure that I deserve such high praise.

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

[Harmony Ltd.]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

[Ironmonger]

...So it turns out the reason I've felt like shit all day is because I've had a high fever and didn't know it. Yet I went about my day as I normally would. What the fuck, nature?

[O. Hinds]

It's interesting how Trixie's post-Ponyville story pretty much was written as it was in vanilla FoE as well.

As well as in 99% of all other FIM fanfiction.

By which I mean every fanfic I've read has had that backstory for Trixie, but I'm sure there's an outlier somewhere.

Latest Episode Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Indeed. :) There is, however, still the interesting question of

Spoiler:

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

Ah, I see, it's powerplant is a gas-fuel-capable combustion engine and the setting's hydrogen storage tech is superior to its battery tech and/or its solar water splitting tech is superior to its solar electricity generation tech?

[Kattlarv]

Firstly: Gah, life's been giving me headaches. (also, guess who's sacrificing to Khorne right now)
Secondly: Regarding the latest episode: I did like it, even thought it felt a bit more "fanwank" of unicorns. Got a bit upset on a few things, but then were okay when they turned out to be other things. Did also really like some reactions done in it. And gah... I totally forgot what I was going to say in the first place xD fff- it was something with Zecora I think... no wait! Did anyone else wonder a bit how Pinkie survived without the ability to breathe or eat?

Thirdly: Would anyone else get quite pissed if the following happened: (to try and explain simply, will not use real example) Say you got a vegetarian friend. You ask them if they want to go out and eat with you. (fast food) They refuse, saying they do not like nor want to eat meat, going with how all fast food places only serves meat, yet complain over how they now often are forced to eat it anyhow since no place offers vegetarian meals and they just "have to" eat at a fast food place sometime. You explain that ex: "Jürgen's fast-kebab" also servers a variety of around 10 vegetarian meals, along with pointing out all places that sells vegetarian meals. Then next day you see them eating a bigmac in a mcdonalds... maybe better explain version: A acquaintance to me told me they hated x, but had to draw x since y, which they said they loved, simply looked too stupid according to them to draw on z. I explained a VERY simple technique to trick ones mind into liking something after just a few weeks. A few days later I see them showing off and happily posting pictures with z having x on them... It felt quite "fff-" and made me wonder a lot if they even had been telling me any truth at all. Since overall, a lot of their counter-arguments built a lot on one thing, I think out a solution to help them, they use it for the opposite. Or in MMO terms: Your friend whines that their weapon sucks. You spend a few days acquiring materials for a new one, crafts it for them, then once you give it to them: They sell in on the auction house (or disenchants it) then keeps using their old. If it wasn't for the fact I had just got a box of ponies and met a couple of people with actual IQ, this even would have really pissed me off. Now I just snarled on it instead.

[Stringtheory]

Did anyone else wonder a bit how Pinkie survived without the ability to breathe or eat?

Two word for you: cartoon logic
that would be an interesting idea, an FO:E fic that brings in cartoon logic, but it's written, not visual so it wouldn't work as well

[Guest]

Spoiler:

Hah, yeah, Pinkie's ability to stay alive without being able to breathe was... interesting. I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for it, like that she can breathe through her eyeballs or something, but ultimately the ease of "it's just Pinkie Pie being random" seems to work best. Maybe one of the earth ponies' abilities is being able to hold their breath for weeks on end, or oxygenate their blood through their skin (like frogs, IIRC)? This'd help with labor intensive stuff, since their limbs would be extra-oxygenated all the time, or something.

As for the other, well, I guess some folks just don't want to put in the effort required; or maybe they were simply being polite or not wanting a confrontation in the original conversation. Kinda unfortunate, either way. Grats on the ponies and the meeting clever people, though! :D

edit: also, "sacrificing to khorne" is the best metaphor I have heard for that in like... forever. Kudos!

[O. Hinds]

...why doesn't it just recapture the water, then? Would that really be so difficult? Otherwise sure, water is plentiful, but you can still run out...
It just seems to me like such a system should be closed.

Well, adding a condenser to the exhaust would be more weight and volume and another part to either be armored or shot off; assuming that running the vehicle on whatever their conventional fuel is is still more convenient when they have a supply line (due to, at the least, not having to wait for the splitting) and that condensers can be included as extra equipment for missions when they know that they won't have a fuel supply, leaving one off the the basic design could be logical. The splitter would be standard as, most of the time, emergency equipment; if your supply line is disrupted, your mechanized forces are only necessarily weakened rather than turned into stationary turrets at best and at worst things that are worthless metal bricks to you and fully functional warmachines to the still-having-fuel enemy.

[RoboRed]

Sacrificing to Khorne as a metaphor? What the heck do you mean by-*stops as sound of glass breaking echoes through mind* Oh...that...

[Ironmonger]

When life gives you lemons, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

no it uses elctrolysis to break down the H2O molecules into HHO gas, the gas is collected and used as a fuel source. Hydrogen is flammable in an oxygen rich atmosphere (Air Intake) all it needs is a spark which you get in an internal combustion engine. the easiest way to do it is to positively charge one set of parallel untouching plates, and between those plates run a negative charged set of plates none of the plates make direct contact, the molecules then rip apart into HHO gas. Power requirement is very low for this and can easily be done with a 12 volt (car USA) battery. this is the idea behind a water fuel cell which i do have designs for(not mine). but anyway, it is future tech. also note, the hog used in game is armored(future tech armor stuff of legends lighter but more durable than modern armor) and can be configured to suit different needs from a mobile weapons platform to a troop or supply transport or recon. the engine is almost perfectly silent, it is light, fast and all terrain. the rear wheels are able to rotate so it has a much tighter turn radius than that of a vehicle with a fixed rear axle.

then there is the atv looking thing they have too, it is small fast and all that jazz, no real protection, but very very mobile.

The HHO device I am referring to is this, read it then discard it I wanted to see if i could help you understand the science behind it, I had more files on it, but have lost track of them in my computer

http://www.4shared.com/file/V0UeBMl5/HHO_Generator.html?

to anyone in general
also electricity would just be generated by an alternator... in before you ask "what happens when the battery runs out", I want to slap your face for thinking that

[Guest]

the engine is almost perfectly silent

Ah, but will that silent engine help when the driver is trying to play his favorite song with the horn? Or, well, jingle bells, anyway.

Seriously, though, the warthog is pretty cool. The one WETA made was also pretty cool, though it couldn't do the water fuel thing I assume. It could drive sideways, IIRC!

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

one more thing, the first internal combustion engine was built in 1805 gasoline was invented in 1870. What did the first ICE use as its fuel source then? anyone? it used electrolyzed water, rather i used HHO gas, five years before Issac de Rivas invented the ICE, the British discovered one can break down water using electricity and that gas is very flammable.

one would think we would look backward wouldn't we?

another thing

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

the engine is almost perfectly silent

Ah, but will that silent engine help when the driver is trying to play his favorite song with the horn? Or, well, jingle bells, anyway.

Seriously, though, the warthog is pretty cool. The one WETA made was also pretty cool, though it couldn't do the water fuel thing I assume. It could drive sideways, IIRC!

the largest obstacle one faces when dealing in alternative fuel sources is the expenses those with financial influences invested in petroleum make to assure reliance on it and thus keep their pocketbooks nice and heavy.

weta wouldn't be able to do this with the warthog because of this problem, sure they could build it to do that, but with that knowledge people would start dying or disappearing

[O. Hinds]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

no it uses elctrolysis to break down the H2O molecules into HHO gas, the gas is collected and used as a fuel source. Hydrogen is flammable in an oxygen rich atmosphere (Air Intake) all it needs is a spark which you get in an internal combustion engine. the easiest way to do it is to positively charge one set of parallel untouching plates, and between those plates run a negative charged set of plates none of the plates make direct contact, the molecules then rip apart into HHO gas. Power requirement is very low for this and can easily be done with a 12 volt (car USA) battery. this is the idea behind a water fuel cell which i do have designs for(not mine). but anyway, it is future tech. also note, the hog used in game is armored(future tech armor stuff of legends lighter but more durable than modern armor) and can be configured to suit different needs from a mobile weapons platform to a troop or supply transport or recon. the engine is almost perfectly silent, it is light, fast and all terrain. the rear wheels are able to rotate so it has a much tighter turn radius than that of a vehicle with a fixed rear axle.

then there is the atv looking thing they have too, it is small fast and all that jazz, no real protection, but very very mobile.

The HHO device I am referring to is this, read it then discard it I wanted to see if i could help you understand the science behind it, I had more files on it, but have lost track of them in my computer

http://www.4shared.com/file/V0UeBMl5/HHO_Generator.html?

to anyone in general
also electricity would just be generated by an alternator... in before you ask "what happens when the battery runs out", I want to slap your face for thinking that

...So it uses an electrolyzer powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its sole water-breaking method? And the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? ...Which runs only on the hydrogen produced by the electrolyzer?

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

no it uses elctrolysis to break down the H2O molecules into HHO gas, the gas is collected and used as a fuel source. Hydrogen is flammable in an oxygen rich atmosphere (Air Intake) all it needs is a spark which you get in an internal combustion engine. the easiest way to do it is to positively charge one set of parallel untouching plates, and between those plates run a negative charged set of plates none of the plates make direct contact, the molecules then rip apart into HHO gas. Power requirement is very low for this and can easily be done with a 12 volt (car USA) battery. this is the idea behind a water fuel cell which i do have designs for(not mine). but anyway, it is future tech. also note, the hog used in game is armored(future tech armor stuff of legends lighter but more durable than modern armor) and can be configured to suit different needs from a mobile weapons platform to a troop or supply transport or recon. the engine is almost perfectly silent, it is light, fast and all terrain. the rear wheels are able to rotate so it has a much tighter turn radius than that of a vehicle with a fixed rear axle.

then there is the atv looking thing they have too, it is small fast and all that jazz, no real protection, but very very mobile.

The HHO device I am referring to is this, read it then discard it I wanted to see if i could help you understand the science behind it, I had more files on it, but have lost track of them in my computer

http://www.4shared.com/file/V0UeBMl5/HHO_Generator.html?

to anyone in general
also electricity would just be generated by an alternator... in before you ask "what happens when the battery runs out", I want to slap your face for thinking that

...So it uses an electrolyzer powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its sole water-breaking method? And the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? ...Which runs only on the hydrogen produced by the electrolyzer?

basically what you described above can be reworded as such
"so it uses an electronically controlled fuel injection system powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its only method of fuel delivery? and the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? which runs only on the gas injected by the fuel injection system?"

You're smarter than this

an engine is also supplemented by a battery for start up... which turns the engine and initiates the sparks in the plugs which then begins the internal combustion which then the engine begins to run on the four stroke cycle which then allows the the alternator to take over power supply.

the Electrolyser would be tied to the ignition which is tied to the battery, once the ignition is started power is running through and generating HHO gas which is used to start the engine and supply it with fuel...

so yes this particular system I have uses ~97 watts to power the electrolytic process. (other vehicles use a 24 volt battery) which uses what 1% of overall engine power in a 1.8 liter engine? how much power does a/c use?

[Ironmonger]

I've had writer's block up the ass for about a month now, barely making any progress on my third chapter. Do you guys know of some ways to make the creativity come back?

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

I've had writer's block up the ass for about a month now, barely making any progress on my third chapter. Do you guys know of some ways to make the creativity come back?

I'll get chainlink shackles, he'll motivate you

[O. Hinds]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

no it uses elctrolysis to break down the H2O molecules into HHO gas, the gas is collected and used as a fuel source. Hydrogen is flammable in an oxygen rich atmosphere (Air Intake) all it needs is a spark which you get in an internal combustion engine. the easiest way to do it is to positively charge one set of parallel untouching plates, and between those plates run a negative charged set of plates none of the plates make direct contact, the molecules then rip apart into HHO gas. Power requirement is very low for this and can easily be done with a 12 volt (car USA) battery. this is the idea behind a water fuel cell which i do have designs for(not mine). but anyway, it is future tech. also note, the hog used in game is armored(future tech armor stuff of legends lighter but more durable than modern armor) and can be configured to suit different needs from a mobile weapons platform to a troop or supply transport or recon. the engine is almost perfectly silent, it is light, fast and all terrain. the rear wheels are able to rotate so it has a much tighter turn radius than that of a vehicle with a fixed rear axle.

then there is the atv looking thing they have too, it is small fast and all that jazz, no real protection, but very very mobile.

The HHO device I am referring to is this, read it then discard it I wanted to see if i could help you understand the science behind it, I had more files on it, but have lost track of them in my computer

http://www.4shared.com/file/V0UeBMl5/HHO_Generator.html?

to anyone in general
also electricity would just be generated by an alternator... in before you ask "what happens when the battery runs out", I want to slap your face for thinking that

...So it uses an electrolyzer powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its sole water-breaking method? And the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? ...Which runs only on the hydrogen produced by the electrolyzer?

basically what you described above can be reworded as such
"so it uses an electronically controlled fuel injection system powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its only method of fuel delivery? and the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? which runs only on the gas injected by the fuel injection system?"

Nooooooo, no it can't. Not unless your car never needs its fuel tank refilled, or fuel pump repaired even, because the stuff is generated right in the injection system.

an engine is also supplemented by a battery for start up... which turns the engine and initiates the sparks in the plugs which then begins the internal combustion which then the engine begins to run on the four stroke cycle which then allows the the alternator to take over power supply.

And if you never add fuel to the system, you will, assuming nothing breaks, just run your battery down. If you do add fuel to the system, the spark plug in a cylinder raises part of the fuel/air mixture to its ignition point, causing the hydrocarbons in the fuel to break their current bonds; they then quickly combine with the oxygen in the air part of the air/fuel mixture, and, since the hydrogen-oxygen and carbon-oxygen compounds (with smaller amounts of other compounds, depending on just what was in the fuel and air) have lower energies, a release of energy takes place. This release of energy takes the form of heat (and some light, but that doesn't matter for our current purposes), which does two things. Firstly, it raises the air/fuel mixture nearby to its ignition point, causing it to undergo the above reaction, which generates more heat, which ignites the mixture further away, etc., and secondly the heat causes the gas mixture within the cylinder to expand and push the piston down in the power stroke.

the Electrolyser would be tied to the ignition which is tied to the battery, once the ignition is started power is running through and generating HHO gas which is used to start the engine and supply it with fuel...

so yes this particular system I have uses ~97 watts to power the electrolytic process. (military vehicles use a 24 volt battery) which uses what 1% of overall engine power in a 1.8 liter engine? how much power does a/c use?

If you are obtaining energy only from the combustion of hydrogen and oxygen gases, the maximum energy you will get is the product of the number of pairs of water molecules produced and the difference between the sum of the energies of two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 and the sum of the energies of two molecules of H20. The minimum energy needed to turn two molecules of H20 into two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 is exactly the same thing. In a closed system at 100% efficiency, you will have a perpetual motion machine. You will not have 100% efficiency, and you will not have a closed system; if you want this to keep running, much less power anything else, you have to bring in energy from outside.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

no it uses elctrolysis to break down the H2O molecules into HHO gas, the gas is collected and used as a fuel source. Hydrogen is flammable in an oxygen rich atmosphere (Air Intake) all it needs is a spark which you get in an internal combustion engine. the easiest way to do it is to positively charge one set of parallel untouching plates, and between those plates run a negative charged set of plates none of the plates make direct contact, the molecules then rip apart into HHO gas. Power requirement is very low for this and can easily be done with a 12 volt (car USA) battery. this is the idea behind a water fuel cell which i do have designs for(not mine). but anyway, it is future tech. also note, the hog used in game is armored(future tech armor stuff of legends lighter but more durable than modern armor) and can be configured to suit different needs from a mobile weapons platform to a troop or supply transport or recon. the engine is almost perfectly silent, it is light, fast and all terrain. the rear wheels are able to rotate so it has a much tighter turn radius than that of a vehicle with a fixed rear axle.

then there is the atv looking thing they have too, it is small fast and all that jazz, no real protection, but very very mobile.

The HHO device I am referring to is this, read it then discard it I wanted to see if i could help you understand the science behind it, I had more files on it, but have lost track of them in my computer

http://www.4shared.com/file/V0UeBMl5/HHO_Generator.html?

to anyone in general
also electricity would just be generated by an alternator... in before you ask "what happens when the battery runs out", I want to slap your face for thinking that

...So it uses an electrolyzer powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its sole water-breaking method? And the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? ...Which runs only on the hydrogen produced by the electrolyzer?

basically what you described above can be reworded as such
"so it uses an electronically controlled fuel injection system powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its only method of fuel delivery? and the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? which runs only on the gas injected by the fuel injection system?"

Nooooooo, no it can't. Not unless your car never needs its fuel tank refilled, or fuel pump repaired even, because the stuff is generated right in the injection system.

an engine is also supplemented by a battery for start up... which turns the engine and initiates the sparks in the plugs which then begins the internal combustion which then the engine begins to run on the four stroke cycle which then allows the the alternator to take over power supply.

And if you never add fuel to the system, you will, assuming nothing breaks, just run your battery down. If you do add fuel to the system, the spark plug in a cylinder raises part of the fuel/air mixture to its ignition point, causing the hydrocarbons in the fuel to break their current bonds; they then quickly combine with the oxygen in the air part of the air/fuel mixture, and, since the hydrogen-oxygen and carbon-oxygen compounds (with smaller amounts of other compounds, depending on just what was in the fuel and air) have lower energies, a release of energy takes place. This release of energy takes the form of heat (and some light, but that doesn't matter for our current purposes), which does two things. Firstly, it raises the air/fuel mixture nearby to its ignition point, causing it to undergo the above reaction, which generates more heat, which ignites the mixture further away, etc., and secondly the heat causes the gas mixture within the cylinder to expand and push the piston down in the power stroke.

the Electrolyser would be tied to the ignition which is tied to the battery, once the ignition is started power is running through and generating HHO gas which is used to start the engine and supply it with fuel...

so yes this particular system I have uses ~97 watts to power the electrolytic process. (military vehicles use a 24 volt battery) which uses what 1% of overall engine power in a 1.8 liter engine? how much power does a/c use?

If you are obtaining energy only from the combustion of hydrogen and oxygen gases, the maximum energy you will get is the product of the number of pairs of water molecules produced and the difference between the sum of the energies of two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 and the sum of the energies of two molecules of H20. The minimum energy needed to turn two molecules of H20 into two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 is exactly the same thing. In a closed system at 100% efficiency, you will have a perpetual motion machine. You will not have 100% efficiency, and you will not have a closed system; if you want this to keep running, much less power anything else, you have to bring in energy from outside.

WHERE THE HELL DID I SAY IT WAS A CLOSED POWER SYSTEM? ITS JUST LIKE A REGULAR CAR IT ONLY USES WATER INSTEAD OF GASOLINE! YOU STILL HAVE TO REFILL THE WATER!

YOU"RE EXPLAINING THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION SYSTEM I UNDERSTAND IT IT IS A FOUR STROKE SYSTEM ARE YOU DOING THIS ON PURPOSE?

on a side note the combustive reaction of oxyhydrogen is three times as powerful as the same reaction yeilded by gasoline of the same weight

edit:I apologize for my outburst it appears you got harmony's suggestion confused with my explanation of how to make a car run on water....

the problem with attempting to recover the water is that some of the energy is lost because of the movement of the vehicle, even if it were perfectly closed it could not run indefinitely as the law of conservation of mass dictates that as the energy is used to propel the four stroke process, then more mass is going to be lost to make that energy. not to mention the heat too...

[Ironmonger]

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

please see my edit

[Ironmonger]

I just felt like posting that.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

yeah no... it had your logic, oh rum lost it! get a picture with a guy getting bashed in the face

[O. Hinds]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

no it uses elctrolysis to break down the H2O molecules into HHO gas, the gas is collected and used as a fuel source. Hydrogen is flammable in an oxygen rich atmosphere (Air Intake) all it needs is a spark which you get in an internal combustion engine. the easiest way to do it is to positively charge one set of parallel untouching plates, and between those plates run a negative charged set of plates none of the plates make direct contact, the molecules then rip apart into HHO gas. Power requirement is very low for this and can easily be done with a 12 volt (car USA) battery. this is the idea behind a water fuel cell which i do have designs for(not mine). but anyway, it is future tech. also note, the hog used in game is armored(future tech armor stuff of legends lighter but more durable than modern armor) and can be configured to suit different needs from a mobile weapons platform to a troop or supply transport or recon. the engine is almost perfectly silent, it is light, fast and all terrain. the rear wheels are able to rotate so it has a much tighter turn radius than that of a vehicle with a fixed rear axle.

then there is the atv looking thing they have too, it is small fast and all that jazz, no real protection, but very very mobile.

The HHO device I am referring to is this, read it then discard it I wanted to see if i could help you understand the science behind it, I had more files on it, but have lost track of them in my computer

http://www.4shared.com/file/V0UeBMl5/HHO_Generator.html?

to anyone in general
also electricity would just be generated by an alternator... in before you ask "what happens when the battery runs out", I want to slap your face for thinking that

...So it uses an electrolyzer powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its sole water-breaking method? And the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? ...Which runs only on the hydrogen produced by the electrolyzer?

basically what you described above can be reworded as such
"so it uses an electronically controlled fuel injection system powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its only method of fuel delivery? and the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? which runs only on the gas injected by the fuel injection system?"

Nooooooo, no it can't. Not unless your car never needs its fuel tank refilled, or fuel pump repaired even, because the stuff is generated right in the injection system.

an engine is also supplemented by a battery for start up... which turns the engine and initiates the sparks in the plugs which then begins the internal combustion which then the engine begins to run on the four stroke cycle which then allows the the alternator to take over power supply.

And if you never add fuel to the system, you will, assuming nothing breaks, just run your battery down. If you do add fuel to the system, the spark plug in a cylinder raises part of the fuel/air mixture to its ignition point, causing the hydrocarbons in the fuel to break their current bonds; they then quickly combine with the oxygen in the air part of the air/fuel mixture, and, since the hydrogen-oxygen and carbon-oxygen compounds (with smaller amounts of other compounds, depending on just what was in the fuel and air) have lower energies, a release of energy takes place. This release of energy takes the form of heat (and some light, but that doesn't matter for our current purposes), which does two things. Firstly, it raises the air/fuel mixture nearby to its ignition point, causing it to undergo the above reaction, which generates more heat, which ignites the mixture further away, etc., and secondly the heat causes the gas mixture within the cylinder to expand and push the piston down in the power stroke.

the Electrolyser would be tied to the ignition which is tied to the battery, once the ignition is started power is running through and generating HHO gas which is used to start the engine and supply it with fuel...

so yes this particular system I have uses ~97 watts to power the electrolytic process. (military vehicles use a 24 volt battery) which uses what 1% of overall engine power in a 1.8 liter engine? how much power does a/c use?

If you are obtaining energy only from the combustion of hydrogen and oxygen gases, the maximum energy you will get is the product of the number of pairs of water molecules produced and the difference between the sum of the energies of two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 and the sum of the energies of two molecules of H20. The minimum energy needed to turn two molecules of H20 into two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 is exactly the same thing. In a closed system at 100% efficiency, you will have a perpetual motion machine. You will not have 100% efficiency, and you will not have a closed system; if you want this to keep running, much less power anything else, you have to bring in energy from outside.

WHERE THE HELL DID I SAY IT WAS A CLOSED POWER SYSTEM? ITS JUST LIKE A REGULAR CAR IT ONLY USES WATER INSTEAD OF GASOLINE! YOU STILL HAVE TO REFILL THE WATER!

YOU"RE EXPLAINING THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION SYSTEM I UNDERSTAND IT IT IS A FOUR STROKE SYSTEM ARE YOU DOING THIS ON PURPOSE?

on a side note the combustive reaction of oxyhydrogen is three times as powerful as the same reaction yeilded by gasoline of the same weight

edit:I apologize for my outburst it appears you got harmony's suggestion confused with my explanation of how to make a car run on water....

the problem with attempting to recover the water is that some of the energy is lost because of the movement of the vehicle, even if it were perfectly closed it could not run indefinitely as the law of conservation of mass dictates that as the energy is used to propel the four stroke process, then more mass is going to be lost to make that energy. not to mention the heat too...

Well, them being two different things does at least bring my opinion of Halo back from the negatives. The problem with your system remains, however: unless you can create energy out of nothing, if you have a given amount of a substance that you have produced from particular components, you cannot by running the reverse process get more energy out than you put into the substance in the first place. A d-d fusion power reactor, were such a thing to exist, could, if the net energy output from the reactor itself was high enough, drive its own electrolysis (and refining, if the electrolyzer was not being fed with pure heavy water) systems, but that's because it's using energy from increasing nuclear binding energy to create higher-energy chemical states; they're two different processes, and the final output is not the same as the system's initial input. A system that uses the energy gained by turning a into b to produce b from a will only break even at impossible-to-acheive 100% efficiency. Using a different set of b from the output for the input will not change that, because b is b.

[Ironmonger]

yeah no... it had your logic, oh rum lost it! get a picture with a guy getting bashed in the face

I haven't been paying attention to the debate since you guys got into the water-engine thing or whatever the proper term is. Been fiddling with my own ideas...so...yeah post pictures.

What is my logic from your point of view anyway?

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

What is cool with the Warthog, though, is its alleged capacity to run on water (apparently it has an onboard plant that convert water into hydrogen, which is then used as fuel).

...How would that be more efficient than just using directly using whatever power source is used to break the water?

From what I get, it's "put 12 liter of water into the water tank, leave it basking into the sun, and get your hydrogen tank refilled". Basically, get fuel without infrastructure. Which is pretty cool for a recon vehicle that could theoretically have to stay away from friendly infrastructures for a while.

no it uses elctrolysis to break down the H2O molecules into HHO gas, the gas is collected and used as a fuel source. Hydrogen is flammable in an oxygen rich atmosphere (Air Intake) all it needs is a spark which you get in an internal combustion engine. the easiest way to do it is to positively charge one set of parallel untouching plates, and between those plates run a negative charged set of plates none of the plates make direct contact, the molecules then rip apart into HHO gas. Power requirement is very low for this and can easily be done with a 12 volt (car USA) battery. this is the idea behind a water fuel cell which i do have designs for(not mine). but anyway, it is future tech. also note, the hog used in game is armored(future tech armor stuff of legends lighter but more durable than modern armor) and can be configured to suit different needs from a mobile weapons platform to a troop or supply transport or recon. the engine is almost perfectly silent, it is light, fast and all terrain. the rear wheels are able to rotate so it has a much tighter turn radius than that of a vehicle with a fixed rear axle.

then there is the atv looking thing they have too, it is small fast and all that jazz, no real protection, but very very mobile.

The HHO device I am referring to is this, read it then discard it I wanted to see if i could help you understand the science behind it, I had more files on it, but have lost track of them in my computer

http://www.4shared.com/file/V0UeBMl5/HHO_Generator.html?

to anyone in general
also electricity would just be generated by an alternator... in before you ask "what happens when the battery runs out", I want to slap your face for thinking that

...So it uses an electrolyzer powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its sole water-breaking method? And the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? ...Which runs only on the hydrogen produced by the electrolyzer?

basically what you described above can be reworded as such
"so it uses an electronically controlled fuel injection system powered by the vehicle's electrical system as its only method of fuel delivery? and the vehicle's electrical system is powered only by the engine? which runs only on the gas injected by the fuel injection system?"

Nooooooo, no it can't. Not unless your car never needs its fuel tank refilled, or fuel pump repaired even, because the stuff is generated right in the injection system.

an engine is also supplemented by a battery for start up... which turns the engine and initiates the sparks in the plugs which then begins the internal combustion which then the engine begins to run on the four stroke cycle which then allows the the alternator to take over power supply.

And if you never add fuel to the system, you will, assuming nothing breaks, just run your battery down. If you do add fuel to the system, the spark plug in a cylinder raises part of the fuel/air mixture to its ignition point, causing the hydrocarbons in the fuel to break their current bonds; they then quickly combine with the oxygen in the air part of the air/fuel mixture, and, since the hydrogen-oxygen and carbon-oxygen compounds (with smaller amounts of other compounds, depending on just what was in the fuel and air) have lower energies, a release of energy takes place. This release of energy takes the form of heat (and some light, but that doesn't matter for our current purposes), which does two things. Firstly, it raises the air/fuel mixture nearby to its ignition point, causing it to undergo the above reaction, which generates more heat, which ignites the mixture further away, etc., and secondly the heat causes the gas mixture within the cylinder to expand and push the piston down in the power stroke.

the Electrolyser would be tied to the ignition which is tied to the battery, once the ignition is started power is running through and generating HHO gas which is used to start the engine and supply it with fuel...

so yes this particular system I have uses ~97 watts to power the electrolytic process. (military vehicles use a 24 volt battery) which uses what 1% of overall engine power in a 1.8 liter engine? how much power does a/c use?

If you are obtaining energy only from the combustion of hydrogen and oxygen gases, the maximum energy you will get is the product of the number of pairs of water molecules produced and the difference between the sum of the energies of two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 and the sum of the energies of two molecules of H20. The minimum energy needed to turn two molecules of H20 into two molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 is exactly the same thing. In a closed system at 100% efficiency, you will have a perpetual motion machine. You will not have 100% efficiency, and you will not have a closed system; if you want this to keep running, much less power anything else, you have to bring in energy from outside.

WHERE THE HELL DID I SAY IT WAS A CLOSED POWER SYSTEM? ITS JUST LIKE A REGULAR CAR IT ONLY USES WATER INSTEAD OF GASOLINE! YOU STILL HAVE TO REFILL THE WATER!

YOU"RE EXPLAINING THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION SYSTEM I UNDERSTAND IT IT IS A FOUR STROKE SYSTEM ARE YOU DOING THIS ON PURPOSE?

on a side note the combustive reaction of oxyhydrogen is three times as powerful as the same reaction yeilded by gasoline of the same weight

edit:I apologize for my outburst it appears you got harmony's suggestion confused with my explanation of how to make a car run on water....

the problem with attempting to recover the water is that some of the energy is lost because of the movement of the vehicle, even if it were perfectly closed it could not run indefinitely as the law of conservation of mass dictates that as the energy is used to propel the four stroke process, then more mass is going to be lost to make that energy. not to mention the heat too...

Well, them being two different things does at least bring my opinion of Halo back from the negatives. The problem with your system remains, however: unless you can create energy out of nothing, if you have a given amount of a substance that you have produced from particular components, you cannot by running the reverse process get more energy out than you put into the substance in the first place. A d-d fusion power reactor, were such a thing to exist, could, if the net energy output from the reactor itself was high enough, drive its own electrolysis (and refining, if the electrolyzer was not being fed with pure heavy water) systems, but that's because it's using energy from increasing nuclear binding energy to create higher-energy chemical states; they're two different processes, and the final output is not the same as the system's initial input. A system that uses the energy gained by turning a into b to produce b from a will only break even at impossible-to-acheive 100% efficiency. Using a different set of b from the output for the input will not change that, because b is b.

perhaps if you instead said that even if you used the converted water's explosive force to commence the process, the power generated cannot exceed the amount of power used to create the HHO gas. it would have simplified this. i had to read this a few times before i understood what you were getting at.

I honestly am not sure about this. it would require making a measurement of power used versus power generated, and that would basically be measuring a 1 hour session one could say\. and I have no clue how well it would work

But I must re-emphasize, the very first internal combustion engine was fueled by water converted into HHO gas sure you may have to charge the battery, but tell me is it more inconvenient to charge a single 12 volt battery which is powering the fuel system or a massive array of batteries powering the drive system?

which would explain why there was a power indicator in the warthog in the Halo Forward Unto Dawn miniseries. really neat, it would be a really interesting attention to detail sort of deal.

[Sponsored content]