Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

yeah no... it had your logic, oh rum lost it! get a picture with a guy getting bashed in the face

I haven't been paying attention to the debate since you guys got into the water-engine thing or whatever the proper term is. Been fiddling with my own ideas...so...yeah post pictures.

What is my logic from your point of view anyway?

my reasoning abilities are beyond comprehension

[Ironmonger]

my reasoning abilities are beyond comprehension

Admiral Rum the eldritch god.

I need a silver bullet. Wait...that's pound puppies werewolves.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

my reasoning abilities are beyond comprehension

Admiral Rum the eldritch god.

I need a silver bullet. Wait...that's pound puppies werewolves.

always with the Eldritch with you...

[Ironmonger]

always with the Eldritch with you...

You can thank Frost for that. I didn't even think of that stuff until he started mentioning it.
I ALSO didn't have a gutter-mind until I read Life and Times of a Winning Pony.
Not sure if good or bad.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

my mind was born in the gutter, i have my mother to thank for that

[Ironmonger]

Gutter-mind seems to be the best mind.

[O. Hinds]

yeah no... it had your logic, oh rum lost it! get a picture with a guy getting bashed in the face

I haven't been paying attention to the debate since you guys got into the water-engine thing or whatever the proper term is. Been fiddling with my own ideas...so...yeah post pictures.

What is my logic from your point of view anyway?

These are proper, hydraulic water engines (though they don't seem to have yet corrected the description of the Hastie Variable Output Engine).

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

Hinds elaborate, this looks like a turbine used to generate electricity with water current or rather something to move water...

sigh, hinds he wasn't trying to get a descriptor of what a proper water engine is, he was using it as a short script for an internal combustion system that uses water

[O. Hinds]

perhaps if you instead said that even if you used the converted water's explosive force to commence the process, the power generated cannot exceed the amount of power used to create the HHO gas. it would have simplified this. i had to read this a few times before i understood what you were getting at.

I'm having some difficulty deciphering your writing, but I'm glad that you seem to have understood.

I honestly am not sure about this. it would require making a measurement of power used versus power generated, and that would basically be measuring a 1 hour session one could say\. and I have no clue how well it would work

Well, if you could disprove Conservation of Energy, the Nobel Committee and most of the physicists (and probably chemists, but who knows what they're thinking :)) on the planet would want to speak with you.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

perhaps if you instead said that even if you used the converted water's explosive force to commence the process, the power generated cannot exceed the amount of power used to create the HHO gas. it would have simplified this. i had to read this a few times before i understood what you were getting at.

I'm having some difficulty deciphering your writing, but I'm glad that you seem to have understood.

I honestly am not sure about this. it would require making a measurement of power used versus power generated, and that would basically be measuring a 1 hour session one could say\. and I have no clue how well it would work

Well, if you could disprove Conservation of Energy, the Nobel Committee and most of the physicists (and probably chemists, but who knows what they're thinking :)) on the planet would want to speak with you.

naturally, would not the water lose mass as the energy is used?

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

a simple test for the system, set up your regular internal combustion engine, with the water fuel cell instead of gas, set it up and run it, without running the engine, the battery should have ~12 V and when running the car should be putting out ~14 volts with the alternator engaged, as this is how the bloody thing charges your car battery... that is all I can really think of.

[O. Hinds]

Hinds elaborate, this looks like a turbine used to generate electricity with water current or rather something to move water...

I don't recall any turbines being in that collection... In any case, these are water engines, motors, generally reciprocating, that convert hydraulic pressure into a ready energy supply for machinery.

sigh, hinds he wasn't trying to get a descriptor of what a proper water engine is, he was using it as a short script for an internal combustion system that uses water

I know that; I a few months ago ran a search for water engines only to see pages cluttered up with... let's call them Water Binding Energy Loop Perpetual Motion Machines, WeBELPaMM for short. I was showing Ironmonger (and the rest of the forum, should they be inclined to look) a set of pages on a quite fascinating and informative website, these particular pages being about water engines.

[O. Hinds]

perhaps if you instead said that even if you used the converted water's explosive force to commence the process, the power generated cannot exceed the amount of power used to create the HHO gas. it would have simplified this. i had to read this a few times before i understood what you were getting at.

I'm having some difficulty deciphering your writing, but I'm glad that you seem to have understood.

I honestly am not sure about this. it would require making a measurement of power used versus power generated, and that would basically be measuring a 1 hour session one could say\. and I have no clue how well it would work

Well, if you could disprove Conservation of Energy, the Nobel Committee and most of the physicists (and probably chemists, but who knows what they're thinking :)) on the planet would want to speak with you.

naturally, would not the water lose mass as the energy is used?

...What?

a simple test for the system, set up your regular internal combustion engine, with the water fuel cell instead of gas, set it up and run it, without running the engine, the battery should have ~12 V and when running the car should be putting out ~14 volts with the alternator engaged, as this is how the bloody thing charges your car battery... that is all I can really think of.

Would you please elaborate on this proposed experiment? I find myself having difficulty understanding you.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

rip out the fuel injection of a regular car and substitute an oxyhydrogen (HHO) gas injector... see if it works

[Ironmonger]

I can just imagine what bragging rights for hunting were like in ancient times.
"I just slew a bear."
"Pelts or it didn't happen."

[O. Hinds]

rip out the fuel injection of a regular car and substitute an oxyhydrogen (HHO) gas injector... see if it works

It looks like the modifications would need to be more extensive than that, but making an automobile-size reciprocating internal combustion engine running on hydrogen wasn't in question. If we're going into engine design, though, you do not want "HHO" in any parts of the engine where it's not absolutely necessary; the stuff that explodes well in the cylinders is also quite capable of exploding well in the fuel lines.

[RoboRed]

I ALSO didn't have a gutter-mind until I read Life and Times of a Winning Pony.
Not sure if good or bad.

I can't look at Cloud Kicker the same way again after reading it.
Not sure if good or bad.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Hey, Hinds, RE : SABRE engine and all that jazz.

It seems to me that the Skylon is more of a demonstration platform for the SABRE engine than what is really going to be released as an industrial-grade launch-platform.

What do you think ?

Also, do you know if the Skylon is going to be man-rated ? I could see the cargo bay being used to put a "passenger module" with integrated life support, for a travel to the ISS.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

rip out the fuel injection of a regular car and substitute an oxyhydrogen (HHO) gas injector... see if it works

It looks like the modifications would need to be more extensive than that, but making an automobile-size reciprocating internal combustion engine running on hydrogen wasn't in question. If we're going into engine design, though, you do not want "HHO" in any parts of the engine where it's not absolutely necessary; the stuff that explodes well in the cylinders is also quite capable of exploding well in the fuel lines.

you asked me about the experiment and I answered your question on how it would be carried out... what more do you want from me?

[Caoimhe]

Spoiler:

Zecora is a big beautiful black and white magic zebra who don't need no horn.

[O. Hinds]

rip out the fuel injection of a regular car and substitute an oxyhydrogen (HHO) gas injector... see if it works

It looks like the modifications would need to be more extensive than that, but making an automobile-size reciprocating internal combustion engine running on hydrogen wasn't in question. If we're going into engine design, though, you do not want "HHO" in any parts of the engine where it's not absolutely necessary; the stuff that explodes well in the cylinders is also quite capable of exploding well in the fuel lines.

you asked me about the experiment and I answered your question on how it would be carried out... what more do you want from me?

I was just suggesting improvements.

Hey, Hinds, RE : SABRE engine and all that jazz.

It seems to me that the Skylon is more of a demonstration platform for the SABRE engine than what is really going to be released as an industrial-grade launch-platform.

What do you think ?

Also, do you know if the Skylon is going to be man-rated ? I could see the cargo bay being used to put a "passenger module" with integrated life support, for a travel to the ISS.

Interesting. What makes you think that the actual vehicle is going to be significantly different from the Skylon design?

Oh, yes; there are already plans and designs for passenger modules and docking systems. REL has done quite a bit of work; there are also designs for an orbital construction station build and serviced by Skylons.

Here is a basic page on planned capabilities, and here is the download page for the available technical documents. Quite interesting stuff.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Maybe not significantly different, but... Well, I have this uneducated gut feeling that it's either too big or too small. You know, like, as if it was in an awkward position as far as launching capabilities go :

The trend for most satellites, AFAIK, is a reduction in size and weight, and if you can always say "We'll just launch more satellites at once", it would suppose having the satellites to launch, which put a constraint on the launch schedule. And it seem to me that one of the selling point of the Skylon launch system is its flexibility.

But at the same time, its maximum payload is "only" around 10-13 tons to LEO, which mean that it seriously restrict the size/weight of the modules it can send into orbit for, say, a space-station.


I see the attraction of having a launch vehicle capable of more rather than less, but I think that if they want to achieve commercial success, the possibility of a scaled-down vehicle (~5-6 tons to LEO) should be studied.

I mean, to make an analogy with commercial airplanes, you don't take an Airbus 380 at half capacity to transport people over the third of its optimal range. It would cost you too much in maintenance and fuel compared to what you would gain from the tickets sold. So you use medium-liners for that.

Basically, the idea is to design a range of vehicles in order to sell the clients those closest to their needs so that they can increase their profits.

[Ironmonger]

[Valikdu]

I ALSO didn't have a gutter-mind until I read Life and Times of a Winning Pony.

Must... resis--ASSUMING CONTROL

YOUR EYES WILL KNOW PAIN:

[Ironmonger]

...
...
...
Not sure if want...
...
...
...
My eyes will know no pain, communist!

[RoboRed]

Spoiler:

Knowing you, this is probably you on every single day of your life.

That being said, it's so true. I feel the same way. I love my winter coat. (ARMOR MODE FRIGGIN' ACTIVATED.)

[Ironmonger]

Knowing you, this is probably you on every single day of your life.

What. What. What. WHAT. WHAT. WHAT! Call me oblivious but WHAT.

[RoboRed]

I was poking fun at you and your obsession with all things Warhammer.

I CAN MAKE ASSUMPTIONS IF I WANT TO.

...Mr. Oblivious.

[Ironmonger]

I was poking fun at you and your obsession with all things Warhammer.

I CAN MAKE ASSUMPTIONS IF I WANT TO.

...Mr. Oblivious.

Oh okay the-

...Mr. Oblivious.

[RoboRed]

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