Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[RoboRed]

[Ketchup]

All the details on this thinger are here. http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs Don't ask me about specifics, I'm just barely learning how to use it. All i know is that it makes my laser printer appear on my iphone and ipad now and I never have to leave irc again with it.

Apparently it's powerful enough to play HD movies and play some games.

Interesting.
I'd totally play Diablo 2 on that thing.

[OneMoreDaySK]

Small things are the best. *bites everyone's kneecaps*

<i>*Runs Away*</i>

[Ironmonger]

All I can say in Spanish is "Please stay clear of the doors" and that is from hearing that repeated every four seconds while standing in line at Disneyworld for 4 hours.

I can yell stuff in German but it's mostly infantry and tank crew orders. I sound rather scary given I have the voice of a howitzer.

[Kippershy]

Small things are the best. *bites everyone's kneecaps*

*Kipper the giant picks up Caoimhe and hugs her against her will before holding her up like a prized possession for everyone to see*

Isn't she just adorable guys? Can I keep her? Can I?

[Ironmonger]

Small things are the best. *bites everyone's kneecaps*

Some people machines bite back.

[RoboRed]

Small things are the best. *bites everyone's kneecaps*

*Kipper the giant picks up Caoimhe and hugs her against her will before holding her up like a prized possession for everyone to see*

Isn't she just adorable guys? Can I keep her? Can I?

I WANT ONE!!

[Cptadder]

I can yell stuff in German but it's mostly infantry and tank crew orders. I sound rather scary given I have the voice of a howitzer.

I can do the exact same for the exact same reasons. Thank you Day of Defeat and Forgotten Hope for my training in case I ever need to demand that a German infantry unit go for the enemy flag. Or warn them about snipers, or that I will attack or they should defend. Also we have secured the enemy flag.

Many good german phrases should I need to lead a German regiment for some reason.

[Ironmonger]

Speaking of pets, am I the only one that throws nice out the window when it comes to rule enforcement? When my dog BearBear bites my ankles I usually threaten to bite him back, when he barks I usually tell him something along the lines of "I'm louder than you buddy you best not start that!"

[RoboRed]

No, you're just nuts.

But we already knew that.

[Ironmonger]

No, you're just nuts.

But we already knew that.

I'm nuts? Guess I belong in a tree.

If this thread/forum were a real place, you all would be sitting in a circle discussing stuff...and I'm the guy in the back screaming in German at a lamp because it disagrees with me on Rainbow Dash being best pony.

[Stringtheory]

No, you're just nuts.

But we already knew that.

I'm nuts? Guess I belong in a tree.

or on the ground, or rather under it in some cases

[Ironmonger]

No, you're just nuts.

But we already knew that.

I'm nuts? Guess I belong in a tree.

or on the ground, or rather under it in some cases

That's almost like a vague suggestion that I should be six feet under. Someone walks over my grave I spring out of my casket and bite their ankles and swear at them, while giving an argument as to why the endings of Mass Effect 3 were so horrible.

[Stringtheory]

No, you're just nuts.

But we already knew that.

I'm nuts? Guess I belong in a tree.

or on the ground, or rather under it in some cases

That's almost like a vague suggestion that I should be six feet under. Someone walks over my grave I spring out of my casket and bite their ankles and swear at them, while giving an argument as to why the endings of Mass Effect 3 were so horrible.

you know what also had a horrible ending? The Holy Grail, but that's why the journey's the best part not the destination (note: I have not played any of the Mass Effect games so I'm completely in the dark about why it's such a huge deal, well it is Bioware (note: need to play some Bioware games...))

[OneMoreDaySK]

No, you're just nuts.

But we already knew that.

I'm nuts? Guess I belong in a tree.

or on the ground, or rather under it in some cases

That's almost like a vague suggestion that I should be six feet under. Someone walks over my grave I spring out of my casket and bite their ankles and swear at them, while giving an argument as to why the endings of Mass Effect 3 were so horrible.

you know what also had a horrible ending? The Holy Grail, but that's why the journey's the best part not the destination (note: I have not played any of the Mass Effect games so I'm completely in the dark about why it's such a huge deal, well it is Bioware (note: need to play some Bioware games...))

Well, the journey is nice and fondly remembered, but the ending is supposed to be what leaves a lasting impression of the game/movie/book/work. And the more horrible some ending is, the more people will remember it as such a bad ending. Same thing with beginnings. That's why first cinematics/cuts/lines are supposed to be interesting as well. Static art has it easy.

[Sindri]

you know what also had a horrible ending? The Holy Grail, but that's why the journey's the best part not the destination (note: I have not played any of the Mass Effect games so I'm completely in the dark about why it's such a huge deal, well it is Bioware (note: need to play some Bioware games...))

The Holy Grail had a magnificently shitty twist at the end of a comedy. Mass Effect built up an evolving universe in which every decision you made affected the lives of the people around you and shapes the development of the galaxy... and then ended it by saying that none of your decisions ever mattered, everything you built has been destroyed, and just in case you care half the lore you've accumulated over the course of three games of investigation has been thrown out. It's a shoot the shaggy dog story that we waited five years for the conclusion to, and it makes it very difficult for anyone who cares about the characters or the 'verse (or basically anything other than shooting things) to work up any enthusiasm to play, despite 90% of the game being absolutely magnificent.

[Ametros]

you know what also had a horrible ending? The Holy Grail, but that's why the journey's the best part not the destination (note: I have not played any of the Mass Effect games so I'm completely in the dark about why it's such a huge deal, well it is Bioware (note: need to play some Bioware games...))

The Holy Grail had a magnificently shitty twist at the end of a comedy. Mass Effect built up an evolving universe in which every decision you made affected the lives of the people around you and shapes the development of the galaxy... and then ended it by saying that none of your decisions ever mattered, everything you built has been destroyed, and just in case you care half the lore you've accumulated over the course of three games of investigation has been thrown out. It's a shoot the shaggy dog story that we waited five years for the conclusion to, and it makes it very difficult for anyone who cares about the characters or the 'verse (or basically anything other than shooting things) to work up any enthusiasm to play, despite 90% of the game being absolutely magnificent.

While I won't question the fact that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was rather appalling, I don't see how the reapers could be defeated with anything that DOESN'T include a massive sacrifice. Considering that you defeated one in each of the first two games, and you're up against ALL of them in number 3... I give credit to the writers where it's due - which is having the balls to have that partially-hollowed victory, yet I still criticise them for the rest.

[Sindri]

While I won't question the fact that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was rather appalling, I don't see how the reapers could be defeated with anything that DOESN'T include a massive sacrifice. Considering that you defeated one in each of the first two games, and you're up against ALL of them in number 3... I give credit to the writers where it's due - which is having the balls to have that partially-hollowed victory, yet I still criticise them for the rest.

I have no problem with sacrifice. Some of my favorite moments during the parts of the game that didn't suck involved beloved characters sacrificing themselves to accomplish something big. Some of my favorite stories have ended with the death of the protagonist, with or without finally accomplishing their goals. But the end of ME3 wasn't a heroic sacrifice, or even a pointless sacrifice, it was complete disregard for the canon of the 'verse combined with a complete reversal in tone and themes and the discarding of everything you've ever worked toward or accomplished so far. I'm not mad because Shepard died, I'm mad because they went out of their way to ensure that nothing that happened over the course of all three games meant shit.

And now I'm going to stop talking about this.

[SilentCarto]

Here's the OMPB review of the original. Keeping it spoiler-free, it's a crossover with The Dresden Files (which I haven't read) in which Pinkie visits Harry Dresden. It's a short, wacky comedy. The sequel is a longer adventure-based story spanning both the Earth of TDF and Equestria. I've had a great time with it, and if I ever get a big block of free time might give The Dresden Files a shot. Probably the biggest problem I've had with them is that they are hosted on Fanfiction.net, which I find frustrating to use and look at.

Unearthing posts from the ancient earlier-this-week...

I didn't like Chengar's Dresden fics as much as I like psychicscubadiver's Dresden Fillies, available on FiMFiction or Fanfiction.net. Strange Friends is the first, followed by False Masks, then an as-yet-unnamed third. Many people have wondered aloud if Psychic is really Jim Butcher in disguise. That is to say, they're really good (and, cough cough, edited by yours truly, which makes them gooder.)

[OneMoreDaySK]

All the drinkers have gone to bed, I hope in the morning they still have their head. So much to drink for, such an amount, can you all give us your intake amount?

[Frost]

Odindamnit, I miss so much here when I'm pretending to sleep so I can blend in with the mortals.

You're all missing the major flaw of the Mass Effect games: it's the future, it's shiny as hell, we've got alien hookahs, and despite that I still don't have an Odindamn jetpack

[Necr0maNceR]

@ Somber:

Well, I’ve been meaning to do this since I came back, but I’ve just kept putting it off and off and off…. for several reasons. In part, because this is another one of those things that could potentially lead to another lengthy debate (or not, who knows?). Basically, there are several things in the past several chapters that I didn’t like, and believe can be improved upon in the future. Now, I’m not setting out to cause stress or anything, although it seems that people usually don’t post anything that they don’t like about Project Horizons, unless it’s something really minor. I’m unsure whether this means they think Project Horizons is practically perfect or something, or whether they just don’t want to cause a fuss. Another reason for me putting off posting this until now is because in the past when I have posted stuff like this, It hasn’t been very good for my popularity. However, I believe this is worth posting, and that one cannot improve if people only point out what is good about their work. I truly love Project Horizons, and want it to be the best it can be. I do apologize for being absent until recently, as all of this should have been posted a long time ago.

-----------------

For starters, there’s the part where Psalm kills Pinkie Pie. I thought it was kind of dumb/weird at first, since it contradicted the way Pinkie Pie was supposed to have died in FO:E, and because I thought you might have done it as some sort of mercy kill thing, but I didn’t give it much thought because it didn’t seem like it mattered much. But then you posted this:

I just hated the idea of Pinkie Pie burning to death. I really... really... hated it. When I read ch 15 (?) I was in tears and actually said 'oh my god, pinkie burned!'

So yeah, this is my attempt to change that, if only for me.

I have several problems with this. First and foremost, what you wrote changes nothing about how Pinkie Pie died in FO:E. In that story, Pinkie dies in the explosion, and that will not change no matter what anyone else writes. Plus, trying to write a different ending to that reminds me of all those alternate endings people wrote for Cupcakes. Examples include things like Rainbow Dash escaping, Pinkie getting caught, and, of course, having the whole thing turn out to ‘actually be a dream’. They were all incredibly dumb, although not because of writing quality (although that was often the case as well) but because the authors were operating under the false idea that what they wrote would ‘right the wrong’ of what happened in Cupcakes. The simple fact is, no matter what anyone else writes, Pinkie Pie still killed Rainbow Dash, and based on what the story implied about Pinkie’s skill, she got away with it. Of course, Cupcakes is just a poorly written fanfic designed to mess with people, and the author even stated on his tumblr that he liked the notoriety he gained from it. Fallout: Equestria is obviously not a poorly written fanfic and Project Horizons is obviously not a poorly written recursive fanfic, but my point still stands.

Not to mention by doing what you did, you are basically saying you disagree with how Kkat killed Pinkie Pie. Nice people (and ponies) die horrible deaths all the time. It’s terrible, to be sure, but a fact of life. Kkat’s intention was for Pinkie Pie’s death to be very sad, and your version takes away from that. Of course, more importantly, why do you think that Pinkie Pie burned to death? I got the impression while reading FO:E that Pinkie died instantantly in the explosion. I mean, she was curled up holding the figurine. If she had burned to death, I would imagine that she would have (pardon the imagery) flailed around screaming trying to extinguish herself, and likely thrown the figurine halfway across the room. She would not have just laid there quietly, waiting to burn to death. Plus, even if she had burned to death, the more appropriate description would be ‘incinerated’ because it would, once again, of almost certainly of happened instantly, and Pinkie Pie would have felt nothing. Not to mention that unlike Pinkie Pie, Rarity definitely had an agonizing death, via the pink cloud. Are you going to rewrite that too? I sure hope not.

The next topic I wish to discuss is Boing’s (not) death. First and foremost, I’d like to say that Happyhorn is one of my favorite chapters. It was done in a very unique way and I loved how the chapter itself kind of messed with my mind as I read it. It kept you guessing the whole time until the big reveal, which was awesome! It had even set things up so that Blackjack would have a long road ahead of her in her atonement for Boing’s death, and that it would be very interesting! And then you threw it all away. Did you actually think having Boing still be alive would be better for the story? That was not a sarcastic question by the way, I’m dead serious. Is that what you planned since Happyhorn? Did you think that was best? Or is this exactly like what happened when Scotch lived, when you said you backed out at the last second because you were unable to put P-21 through the suffering it would’ve caused? If so, then I would certainly hope you didn’t do it for Boing’s sake. Unlike Scotch, Boing is an incredibly insignificant character that I myself, at least, barely even remembered from her brief appearance earlier. I would imagine the reason you didn’t kill her was for Blackjack’s sake, so she would have to deal with less trauma, or whatever. Perhaps it’s because Boing would have been the first truly innocent pony that Blackjack would have killed with her own hooves AND it would have been 100% her fault/completely avoidable if she had just slept.

One of the things that makes a great story is good conflict/problems that the character has to deal with. By not having Boing actually be dead, you have removed a good source of that. It kind of feels like there is a hole that the consequences of Boing’s death would have filled. Having her be crippled instead is no substitute for what her death would have done for the story. I mean, the consequences of her actions that Blackjack has faced since it was revealed so far include the conversation with Boing, and being spanked a couple of times by Glory. The conversation with Boing brought her down a little, but she recovered from it that very same chapter! And the spankings, god, that’s basically the only really negative (and even that’s debatable) consequence she has suffered from the rest of her party! What the hell!? I mean, sure, Rampage was pissed when she thought Blackjack had actually killed Boing, but that’s moot now. As things are, the rest of the party has basically gotten over the fact that Blackjack has almost, but not quite, (although still crippled) killed a foal. It’s almost as if it never happened. At the very least I hope she has a harder time dealing with the Crusaders once they find out. Of course, it will still likely end up being wrapped up quickly with little to no lasting consequences.

Oh, and of course, don’t think I missed the message to the readers regarding Boing’s surviving in chapter 46:

No, Blackjack. Life is better than death. A few exceptions, of course: Steel Rain, Lancer, whatever was running the Harbingers. But it was better she lived.

Life is better than death? Of course, that is indisputable. With the exception of villains obviously (like you said), and a few other corner cases, but you can’t deny that it’s better to be crippled than dead. This statement is completely true!

…

In real life.

This is not real life however, this is fiction. In fiction, the goal is usually to write the best story you can, even if you must kill off several important characters to do so. In the end, the point of the characters is to move the plot forward and keep it interesting. If killing off a character is the best way to do so, then do so. No character truly dies until they are forgotten. The more interesting they and the story they are from are, the longer they will be remembered. By not killing Boing you may have spared her life, but you have also done her character a great injustice by making her far less important to the story as a whole.

…

Okay, next point. The spoiler.

Just WHAT possessed you to think that telling us that you are about to kill a major character was a good idea? I mean seriously! I do my best to avoid spoilers, and I understand that following the discussion here will inevitably lead to aspects of upcoming chapters being spoiled by you and the editors every now and then. However, up until this point, the spoilers have been quite minor. Revealing that you are about to kill off a main character brings things up to a whole new level. Even though we don’t know who it is, the impact of that character’s death has been greatly reduced now that we know it’s coming. So I must ask you, why would you spoil that for us?

Spoiling that you’re about to kill somepony naturally leads me to speculate as to who it might be (Now, the main point I was trying to get across here was that you should not have spoiled that for us, but hear me out). I think P-21 is the character you are going to kill. He’s the least interesting character now that he’s become “enlightened” or whatever. He also has no major conflicts left to solve (and there’s that whole prophecy thing about his story being over). He seems the most likely canidate to die. I suppose there is one issue of his that is yet to be resolved. His feelings for Blackjack. Of course, his death could solve that as well. I can see it now, him jumping in front of a bullet or something to save Blackjack (or Scotch). Or maybe it doesn’t happen like that. Regardless, there he is, dying in Blackjack’s hooves. He then goes on to say how he loves Blackjack, but that it isn’t meant to be. He then says how Glory and Blackjack are meant to be together, tells them to take care of Scotch, then dies. Cue morning period. That’s one way I could imagine things turning out, THE WORST WAY. Not in and of so much due to P-21 dying, but because of the way his feelings for Blackjack were wrapped up. I hate it in film and literature when they have two people who have feelings for one another, and a third who has feelings for one of the two, then they deal with it by having the third fall in love with a fourth person before anything serious can come of their feelings for the first person, or they make the third person out to be a jerk, or they simply kill them off. All of those are major cop-outs. A good example of one is from the movie The Five-Year Engagement. Now, I’ll spoiler this just in case there is anyone who hasn’t seen the movie and actually cares what about what happens:

Spoiler:

When I say that P-21 doesn’t seem interesting anymore, it is for several reasons. What I meant by “enlightened” is that he seems almost perfect, knowing the right approach to many problems, having peace of mind, and being a fountain of wisdom or something. His relationship with his daughter is going great, and he has no major conflicts to resolve except his feelings for Blackjack. This is due, of course, to the fact that Scotch lived. Honestly, Scotch’s survival has made P-21 much less interesting. Now I know you said that you don’t think P-21 could have handled Scotch’s death, but I disagree. Sure, P-21 would likely end up massively depressed and on the verge of suicide. But, I could imagine something happening to change that. Perhaps P-21 sees a foal about to die, then frantically rushes in and saves them, so they don’t die like his daughter did. Then perhaps that foal becomes a surrogate Scotch of sorts to him, and he becomes crazily overprotective of them, as a way of atonement/denial. Perhaps he even starts to call them Scotch. Maybe P-21 decides to take up Priest’s role in Chapel, and starts to act overprotective towards all the foals there. Maybe when he finally learns to accept Scotch’s death, he stops caring for that adopted foal the way he used to, and they feel abandoned. Either way, it would be another issue for P-21 to deal with, and one of many ways he could have continued to last after Scotch’s death. Of course, none of this really matters, as the issue of Scotch not dying is long and done with.

I have one last thing to talk about, and it is by far the least important of the bunch, but still worth mentioning. Did you really expect us to believe that Lacunae had died after losing connection with Blackjack in Hightower? I did not believe it for one moment. The fact that Blackjack believed it seemed silly as well. Her “death” was both unconfirmed AND off screen. I know the kind of author you are. You aren’t going to randomly kill a main character off-screen. If you kill one of the main characters, it will be a big deal, full of last words and final farewells, and all sorts of drama. I’m not sure what the point of that was supposed to be, since it was so obvious that Lacunae wasn’t dead.

--------------------

Well, that’s everything I wanted to say. I hope I didn’t come across as being condescending or anything like that. I just couldn’t think of a better way to put it, and if it came across as condescending or something, then I apologize. My point was to offer insight, and help you improve as a writer. I apologize that almost everything I wrote Involved me pointing out what I saw as flaws in your work. If you like, I could make a separate review that entails the things I liked about the last several chapters. I just thought I’d be repeating what others had already said if I did that, and while pointing out what one likes about what you write can be useful information, pointing out what they don’t like/think you could improve upon would be far more useful information for helping you become a better writer.

Once again, I apologize for my absence. All of this is stuff I should have said much earlier.

[Frost]

@necr0maNceR

Your post was on topic and well-thought out.

We don't allow that here.

[O. Hinds]

For starters, there’s the part where Psalm kills…

Well, firstly, the original does not confirm that Pinkie was not shot; the possibility existed. Secondly, she wouldn't have died in the explosion; a blast wave powerful enough to kill her would have done much more damage than observed to the office. The evidence in the building points to fire. As to why Pinkie didn't flail in the scenario where she burns, well, it was still pretty fast. The key point, though, is that she was defeated; she curled up instead of flailing because she was accepting what was happening, not wanting to live (for however long she would have survived) in the destroyed world that she had had a hoof in creating. I don't really see any problems with what Somber did here.

The next topic I wish to discuss is Boing’s…

I've no particular comment on this until

This is not real life however, this is fiction.

To the characters, however, it is real. I will say, though, that Boing's survival seemed slightly contrived to me, too.

Just WHAT possessed you to think that telling us that you are about to kill a major character was a good idea?

…Eh? When did this happen?

The fact that Blackjack believed it seemed silly…

Lacunae was flying through radioactive, Enervated airspace covered by fiery ghouls and automated turrets. When Lacunae went silent, why wouldn't Blackjack assume the worst? You say that you know that Somber wouldn't kill a main character like that (and you're probably right), but, again, the characters don't know that.


I don't think that you need to worry about your post causing offense; it was polite, well-intentioned, and constructive (thought the degree to which it was constructive may vary with one's point of view).

[OneMoreDaySK]

For starters, there’s the part where Psalm kills…

Well, firstly, the original does not confirm that Pinkie was not shot; the possibility existed. Secondly, she wouldn't have died in the explosion; a blast wave powerful enough to kill her would have done much more damage than observed to the office. The evidence in the building points to fire. As to why Pinkie didn't flail in the scenario where she burns, well, it was still pretty fast. The key point, though, is that she was defeated; she curled up instead of flailing because she was accepting what was happening, not wanting to live (for however long she would have survived) in the destroyed world that she had had a hoof in creating. I don't really see any problems with what Somber did here.

The next topic I wish to discuss is Boing’s…

I've no particular comment on this until

This is not real life however, this is fiction.

To the characters, however, it is real. I will say, though, that Boing's survival seemed slightly contrived to me, too.

Just WHAT possessed you to think that telling us that you are about to kill a major character was a good idea?

…Eh? When did this happen?

The fact that Blackjack believed it seemed silly…

Lacunae was flying through radioactive, Enervated airspace covered by fiery ghouls and automated turrets. When Lacunae went silent, why wouldn't Blackjack assume the worst? You say that you know that Somber wouldn't kill a main character like that (and you're probably right), but, again, the characters don't know that.


I don't think that you need to worry about your post causing offense; it was polite, well-intentioned, and constructive (thought the degree to which it was constructive may vary with one's point of view).

Stygius is coming back. In arc five.
Right now he and Psychoshy are trying desperately to convince his
father to allow more batponies to leave on more than hunting expeditions
and to bring back outsiders to deepen the gene pool.

The reason
why they have a King and a Queen is they've latched their identity on
that of Tartarus, which is ruled by a King and Queen. They don't
actually live in the underworld, but that would be a spoiler.

And yeah. Back to our mane 6 in the party. Soon to be mane 5.

Here
is stygius' character: he's a wastrel prince who meets a surfacer and
goes 'Yeah, I can hit on that. Better than being expected to marry my
sister.' And then goes with her into a world he's only seen
occasionally. He beds her, sure, but she is so much more than his kind
back home that when she is attacked he tries to help her. He follows
her to glimpse a world both terrifying but also frighteningly real.
Most batponies never reach their home and they are rapidly dwindling
their gene pool. After travelling with BJ, he knows he has to go back,
but he doesn't want to. He knows his father will come if he doesn't,
and that would be ugly, so he returns knowing now how much more needs to
be done for Luna's guards. If I'd given him the ability to talk,
hopefully that would have been clearer.

Methinks this is what Necr0 is talking about. And speaking of which. OMG SOMBER IS USING AN AVATAR. AND HAS NO FRIENDS. EVERYBODY GO FRIEND HIM RIGHT NAO! Wait. That means I'm the only one here not using an avatar? HAHAHAHA (foreveralone)

@necro
1. I agree about pinkie pie, but think it's
an insignificant issue, much like you did, written to make somber feel
better. Particularly because she stated as such.
2. I prefer that
Boing didn't die. In speaking with her we got a glimpse of what is sure
to become a future raider. The impact was negligible to BJ, maybe dodged
just to avoid the childkiller perk, but it had a strong impact on me
and I'm glad it turned out as it did. I will admit, though, it does
annoyingly seem to make her whole ordeal a bit moot. But if this lead in
to BJ actually killing a foal and being relatively okay with it due to
happyhorn and everything else.. now THAT would be interesting.
3. I
would agree that P-21 finally seems to have everything together. I just
think that that means it's high time for something to personally effect
him. If he died, though, I don't see Scotch sticking around. Maybe she'd
finally join the crusaders, I dunno. I do kinda wish she had died. I
want to see him finally stop being so submissive all the time. I wish I
could see more of the hatred that lead him to string up a slave master
with mines and hand the slaves the detonator. I think P-21 is definitely
going to die at some point, but I want it to be for something he
values. Something he has chosen to die for. I just really want at least
one singular symbolic act of freedom from oppression out of him. Then he
can die, I guess.

1) Eh, it doesn't really change things that much for Pinkie and FO:E canon does it? She's still dead, and all it does to me is have an impact on Somber(of course) and Psalm.
2) Boing being dead would just have another body count to Blackjack. A very important one to her, but she'll get over it, which she did. Her being alive opens up the chance of her becoming a villain. Then Blackjack would then have to consciously have to k... Dangit Somber don't do that.
3) Eh, I kinda want him just to stick around and help the town. Sure he'd stop journeying, but one last journey with Blackjack would kill him outright.

[FeatherDust]

While I won't question the fact that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was rather appalling, I don't see how the reapers could be defeated with anything that DOESN'T include a massive sacrifice.

Sacrifice is not a problem.
If the ending were that the fleet was almost totally destroyed, lost almost every ship except a few survivors, and lost Shepard... But by God, we won... Fine. Wonderful end.

The problem is first that the choices you get have really nothing to do with how you played. It's just another "pick one of three switches" ending. The choices you made leading up to that point are irrelevant.

And second, and more critically, none of the endings support the theme if the series. The theme is that we are better together than apart, that differences do not divide us, but make us strong when we work together. That the dream the Citadel represents is not wrong, even if we have problems, we are all intelligent beings that can work past them.

The reapers declare unilaterally that synths and organics can never live in harmony, that peace is impossible. We are given the options to either kill all synths or make everyone a hybrid. Where is the option to flip off these self appointed gods and say, "You are wrong. Look at the geth! We had a fight with them, yes - but we got over it. Who are you to tell us we can't choose to get along? How are synths more alien to us than a Hanar or Rachni? And see here, how we all came together to stop you? Together we are stronger than you. You've lost already... Because you believe a lie."

That is the ending I wanted.

[O. Hinds]

@OneMoreDaySK:
That doesn't say that someone's dying, though, just that they're leaving somehow.

Somber has an avatar now? [checks] Somber has an avatar now!

[Frost]

While I won't question the fact that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was rather appalling, I don't see how the reapers could be defeated with anything that DOESN'T include a massive sacrifice.

Sacrifice is not a problem.
If the ending were that the fleet was almost totally destroyed, lost almost every ship except a few survivors, and lost Shepard... But by God, we won... Fine. Wonderful end.

The problem is first that the choices you get have really nothing to do with how you played. It's just another "pick one of three switches" ending. The choices you made leading up to that point are irrelevant.

And second, and more critically, none of the endings support the theme if the series. The theme is that we are better together than apart, that differences do not divide us, but make us strong when we work together. That the dream the Citadel represents is not wrong, even if we have problems, we are all intelligent beings that can work past them.

The reapers declare unilaterally that synths and organics can never live in harmony, that peace is impossible. We are given the options to either kill all synths or make everyone a hybrid. Where is the option to flip off these self appointed gods and say, "You are wrong. Look at the geth! We had a fight with them, yes - but we got over it. Who are you to tell us we can't choose to get along? How are synths more alien to us than a Hanar or Rachni? And see here, how we all came together to stop you? Together we are stronger than you. You've lost already... Because you believe a lie."

That is the ending I wanted.

Exactly. Wouldn't have hurt to have the option to punch that star-child right in his stupid face, either

[Guest]

@necr0maNceR

Your post was on topic and well-thought out.

We don't allow that here.

Actually, it's the norm, or at least it was until people started spamming ~24/7. This is a pleasant return, for me, at least - I prefer periods of quiescence if it means we also get in-depth discussion on interesting topics that anyone can join in on.

@Necr0
For me, I mostly give Somber the benefit of the doubt for anything that could have impact down the road, so that's anything related to P-21. I wasn't sure about Boing not being dead, but the scene with her and Blackjack having a chat was brutal enough to make me appreciate her still being around quite a lot.

@ME3
I still haven't beaten this game! Which sucks, because I actually love the gameplay, and the story SO FAR FROM WHAT I'VE PLAYED has been damn good - cinematography (or... whatever you call it for a vidjagame) has been especially impressive.

[Vergil]

@OneMoreDaySK:
Somber has an avatar now? [checks] Somber has an avatar now!

Somber has best avatar now

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