Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Katarn]

I have gen. 3 iPod, jailbraked. That's all.

I'm using it like mp3 player. Web/youtube browser, when I have grip over free wi-fi, nothing more.

[Kippershy]

I tried to find a Mac with similar specs to my computer (current market value ~900CAD). Which is...

Spoiler:

The closest one costs three times as much, has a slower CPU, a superior video card (but, mine's two years old, so...), a larger SSD, and a bigger monitor. But still, three times as expensive as mine.

Spoiler:

[Katarn]

Edit:
I wonder if it's weird that I'm a computer engineer that still considers computers crazy-amazing magical thingers.
You're supposed to become jaded after you know all the ins and outs of how a thing works, right? :P

I'm computer engineer myself, still I believe there is some 'magic' in them. Because some times I can't explain WHY computer still working, when it shouldn't be. So with them (at least with LAN) I'm using 'If it's working, don't touch it' doctrine.

[Kippershy]

Computers amaze me on the basis of HOW THE FUCK did we invent such a thing?

How the fuck did we figure out how to (accurately, may I add) store data to optical disks?
How did we figure how to then reproduce the data back into stuff we can understand?
How the fuck does it all come together to work so well?

I can look at it and say "this powers that, that does this" but I can't tell you WHY they do this or that.

[IncoherentOrange]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Why did it become so? Because they could do it and modular computing was the way of the future when the ATX-type casing came out. Though I agree, that's freaking amazing.

[Katarn]

Well, um...
@optical disks They have small 'holes' in it, consider optical disks as 'upgraded' versions of vinyl. Laser doing pretty much the same thing as needle did with vinyl.
@HDD Can't properly explain it in English... magnets, different levels of magnited disks there...sorry if I'm sounding wrong, can't wrap my thoughts in English.

[IncoherentOrange]

It's fine Katarn, you should see my French.

[RoboRed]

@HDD Can't properly explain it in English... magnets, different levels of magnited disks there...sorry if I'm sounding wrong, can't wrap my thoughts in English.

[Ironmonger]

Some followup first
Conceal them where? Remember pony's don't wearing clothing by default despite what Lyra preferred.]

I wasn't implying/saying that ponies could conceal them, but you are right for that reason. Mostly my comments are me thinking out loud. Sorry to be late to the party, things are kinda busy around here. Btw for future reference so I don't confuse anyone, I prefer to be direct with what I say or think. I don't like to imply things unless I'm doing it for comedic effect.

Also it appears the forum has been...*sunglasses*...Pantsed.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

I just built my computer os and all it was just over 700 us dollars.

[OneMoreDaySK]

@Fallout3
There weren't many morally ambiguous things in there. Even the FEV was more of a one sided thing once you realize that you yourself would be considered "infected" Tenpenny Towers was just stupid, so I never finished the quest. It hilariously contradicts with my 100% completion obsession.

@Apple
All I have is an Ipod. Don't really like their control architecture though. So many restrictions. Out of curiosity and possible future purchases, what would be a good alternative to Ipads?

Notepad laptop.
Unless you're going for the touch-screen effect, a notepad is probably what you'd be best off with. Something small with enough power to do the basic things while not costing an arm and a leg and not taking up all the carrying room you have.

But, Touchscreen is the future! Microsoft certainly thinks so with Windows 8.
Seriously though, I need something that can play games so my baby brother doesn't keep taking my iPod and draining the poor battery. It's been alive for about 5 years now, that iPod touch.

[FeatherDust]

My big problem with the Enclave in FO3 is much the same. They swoop in from no where. I'd love it if you got quests from an enclave operative; gathering intelligence, rescuing some of their scientists, helping them take Evergreen Mills and Paradise Falls out. Then, when you find out about the FEV plot, you now have a moral choice. Do you commit genocide with a germ weapon or not? You know the Enclave has the tech and the audacity to restore civilization. It would have been awesome to be able to try to either reunite the outcasts or to convince them to join the Enclave.

I'd go even further; I'd have the FEV virus weapon not kill EVERYONE in the wasteland -- just a lot of them. Say thirty to forty percent of the population is mutated enough to be targeted, in addition to all the supermutants and all the ghouls. You've been working with an Enclave agent to clean up some authentically awful stuff, and then the kicker is, "Hey, here's this bioweapon that'll kill off ALL THE MONSTERS. Also about one in three humans and some innocent ghouls and stuff, but -- well, that many would probably die from monster attack anyway, so why don't you help us out..."

Now that's a good moral gray area.

I dislike supposedly "morally gray" factions that are actually a series of clearly good missions followed by clearly evil missions.

[FeatherDust]

Computers amaze me on the basis of HOW THE FUCK did we invent such a thing?

How the fuck did we figure out how to (accurately, may I add) store data to optical disks?
How did we figure how to then reproduce the data back into stuff we can understand?
How the fuck does it all come together to work so well?

I can look at it and say "this powers that, that does this" but I can't tell you WHY they do this or that.

It helps if you start getting a handle on what "megahertz" and "gigahertz" really mean.

This moment of clarity came for me during a class on embedded computer systems -- that is, programmed chips and such. We were talking about a device that measures the surface structure of a highway as the vehicle drives over it to determine when they need to repave. With a mere kilohertz processor, the time it took a laser fired from a bumper-mounted unit to hit the street surface and return (a round trip of about three feet) was dozens of empty computer cycles. It spent most of its time waiting for the laser to come back. So now realize that your basic computer now runs a MILLION times faster than that... The speed a disc spins is glacial compared to the processor speed...

[OneMoreDaySK]

My big problem with the Enclave in FO3 is much the same. They swoop in from no where. I'd love it if you got quests from an enclave operative; gathering intelligence, rescuing some of their scientists, helping them take Evergreen Mills and Paradise Falls out. Then, when you find out about the FEV plot, you now have a moral choice. Do you commit genocide with a germ weapon or not? You know the Enclave has the tech and the audacity to restore civilization. It would have been awesome to be able to try to either reunite the outcasts or to convince them to join the Enclave.

I'd go even further; I'd have the FEV virus weapon not kill EVERYONE in the wasteland -- just a lot of them. Say thirty to forty percent of the population is mutated enough to be targeted, in addition to all the supermutants and all the ghouls. You've been working with an Enclave agent to clean up some authentically awful stuff, and then the kicker is, "Hey, here's this bioweapon that'll kill off ALL THE MONSTERS. Also about one in three humans and some innocent ghouls and stuff, but -- well, that many would probably die from monster attack anyway, so why don't you help us out..."

Now that's a good moral gray area.

I dislike supposedly "morally gray" factions that are actually a series of clearly good missions followed by clearly evil missions.

Ah still don't think that's morally grey, since you the player are running around clearing the problem up just fine apparently.
What would be cool is if your character could be a part of creating a town / city / village / survival zone. Either you can get some group to settle down, or create a roving band of bandits / mercs / medics / heroes / shepherds.

[Cptadder]

*Snip my comments
Well, the missiles are much less maneuverable, much less smart, and, therefore, much easier to hit. Also, we've no information on the details of Equestria's missile defenses (or how targeting talismans actually work, even); it's possible that whatever better targeting system they use couldn't be mounted on a Raptor or Thunderhead even if they are good enough to hit a jinking SS. If the cloudships have defenses that good, why haven't we seen them in action?

Your last line leads into my theory, without a threat as good as the one you postulate a serious amount of defenses is not required for the cloud ships. And we do see the Raptors and the command ship putting out a ton of fire-power in the big end battles of FoE including ray based weaponry.

As for the lasers, here's the thing a AEGIS missile cruiser has a radar powerful enough in scanning mode at full military power to literally set the average human being on fire in under at close ranges. The reason it needs such a powerful radar is to do things like track planes and missiles at long ranges very accurately for it's weaponry. Something like a Thunderhead by contrast could much such a radar if the ponies had the technology but it conflicts with the primary users of Thunderheads the Pegasuses. Primary Thunderhead doctrine seems to be that the capital ship is defended by it's on board weaponry and Pegasus ponies in battle armor and battle saddles. Something you can not have buzzing around if you want to use a super accurate radar based tracking system. Well then what about targeting talismans? Targeting talismans how do they work!?

Which leads back into my secondary point that got lost because I did not notice the magical nature of your rainbom projector. We know they exists because the SPP all has them and can generate them. But are they small enough to fit on a fighter to begin with? And if it's small enough to fit it on a fighter why when a missile would make much more sense. Sure the super maneuverability of this plane would be handy but lets be blunt it sounds like a very expensive Ohka except instead of ramming into the enemy aircraft you simply get close enough to boom away the clouds and then escape.

In summary I can't offer you any bits of evidence to directly shoot down your head-canon. At best what I can tell you is O-Hinds that to me... at this time the fact that the SS lacks a few notes of plasuability. The need of a rainboom projector small enough yet able to fire multiple shots as each redirection requires a usage sounds like an expensive bit of kit. The lack of counter to such a plane and the development track to get from sky-coaches to SS's in under ten years leaves me questioning the probability of it's existence.

The closest one costs three times as much, has a slower CPU, a superior video card (but, mine's two years old, so...), a larger SSD, and a bigger monitor. But still, three times as expensive as mine.

Welcome to the world of name brand. You pay money for that brand name and in Apples case you pay a lot which is why are the richest company on the planet.

Spoiler:

You need a better monitor, there exist plenty of better 32 inchers out there that can do full up 1080P with nice clean resolutions. But that's personal opinion.
Also your other USB ports are 2.0, 3.0 is still not on chip native so even expensive luxury boards only offer 4 onboard.

Computers amaze me on the basis of HOW THE FUCK did we invent such a thing?

I can look at it and say "this powers that, that does this" but I can't tell you WHY they do this or that.

We stand on the shoulders of giants. Everything that has come before is just one more step in progress. Ten thousand steps towards a goal glimpsed over a hundred years ago. Each step easy to understand but put them all together and you understand how the wonders of our modern world came to be. We build on all that comes before, as our children will build on what we have done when we are gone.

I wasn't implying/saying that ponies could conceal them, but you are right for that reason. Mostly my comments are me thinking out loud. Sorry to be late to the party, things are kinda busy around here. Btw for future reference so I don't confuse anyone, I prefer to be direct with what I say or think. I don't like to imply things unless I'm doing it for comedic effect.

Also it appears the forum has been...*sunglasses*...Pantsed.

I'm guessing that's not the first time we've found ourselves.... Pantless
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QagvGeALda4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[SilentCarto]

"Password."
"Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine."

Win.

Incidentally, does this annoy anyone else about NV (and I assume Fo3)? In the old games, if a flimsy door was locked and you happened to have explosives, it didn't matter that you couldn't pick the now-dispersed lock. In NV, I can drop a mininuke next to thin corrugated aluminium and not scratch it.

That was one of the things I loved about Deus Ex. (The original one, not Human Revolution.) Every door had a strength rating, so if you didn't have the skill to pick it and didn't mind the noise, you could always blow it open with explosives... or, for weaker ones, break it down with a melee weapon and yell, "HEEEEERE'S JC!"

Of course, there WERE doors with a durability rating of "Indestructable", but they were obviously heavy-duty blast doors and the like.

In my medical opinion, I suggest you get that checked out. Methinks it's not supposed to be ribbed...

Ribbed to protect my vital organs.

Also: is the Goddess just randomly withholding things, now? Why does this matter to her?

She made BJ unable to tell anyone that the Goddess is making her unable to talk about certain things.

...Sorry, but I still don't really see significant problems. Would you like me to refer this to the rest of the team?

Uh, sure... either that, or explain to me how they're not incorrect.

Gah... now I'm three days and ten pages behind... ;_;

[WovenTales]

Honestly, I'm not fond of making the Rainboom able to be mechanimagically reproducible, even by the SPP. But I think the idea behind putting it on a fighter rather than a missile would be for the maneuverability; while a missile wouldn't risk a crew, relying on an AI to bring it safely back would eventually run into the problem of that AI getting out of its league, no matter how advanced it was. And while that field of technology is almost scarily well-developed on the Zebras' side, they don't seem to have invested nearly as heavily in remote non-autonomous systems. So instead, putting the tech on a manned vessel allows them to consistently bring it back to base—making it multi-use (especially with a good pilot) instead of limited. It would certainly be expensive, but Hinds already said that there was only one produced. The prototype was evidently not quite effective enough to justify the price.

Edit: To be more concise, a fighter allows many more uses for the amount of money spent, and even that wasn't good enough to start production. And as for the lack of effective counters, I'd say that there wasn't much need for them against a single plane. Sure there were probably plans drawn up in case more were made, but, again, money.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

The reason for putting anything on a missile is to make it disposable with rapid delicery

[O. Hinds]

Your last line leads into my theory, without a threat as good as the one you postulate a serious amount of defenses is not required for the cloud ships. And we do see the Raptors and the command ship putting out a ton of fire-power in the big end battles of FoE including ray based weaponry.

I may be misremembering, but weren't those large, relatively slow-tracking weapons designed to attack dragons and ground targets?

As for the lasers, here's the thing a AEGIS missile cruiser has a radar powerful enough in scanning mode at full military power to literally set the average human being on fire in under at close ranges. The reason it needs such a powerful radar is to do things like track planes and missiles at long ranges very accurately for it's weaponry. Something like a Thunderhead by contrast could much such a radar if the ponies had the technology but it conflicts with the primary users of Thunderheads the Pegasuses. Primary Thunderhead doctrine seems to be that the capital ship is defended by it's on board weaponry and Pegasus ponies in battle armor and battle saddles. Something you can not have buzzing around if you want to use a super accurate radar based tracking system. Well then what about targeting talismans? Targeting talismans how do they work!?

It is a problem, yes.

Which leads back into my secondary point that got lost because I did not notice the magical nature of your rainbom projector. We know they exists because the SPP all has them and can generate them. But are they small enough to fit on a fighter to begin with? And if it's small enough to fit it on a fighter why when a missile would make much more sense. Sure the super maneuverability of this plane would be handy but lets be blunt it sounds like a very expensive Ohka except instead of ramming into the enemy aircraft you simply get close enough to boom away the clouds and then escape.

Regarding size, we know that pegasi can rainboom all by themselves. If it's also possible to build a machine that can make a tower generate a rainboom, I don't see why it would not, at least in theory, be possible to build one allowing a fighter with supersonic props to rainboom. As for why not a missile, over half the reason why only one SS was built was the enormous cost of the rainboom system. Sure, a missile doesn't have to come back (assuming that it can be made smart enough to get to the target in the first place), but it also can't come back. A plane is reusable. A missile probably can't even carry out multiple strikes on the same target, and if it can, then adding a bit of extra fuel capacity could probably allow it to get back to base, turning it into a drone. A plane can also carry out multiple different types of mission, with great flexibility, and attack a variety of targets in a variety of different ways, and it can operate in concert with other planes and ground forces. Sure, you could build all of this into the drone too... but now you've basically got a full plane that's waiting for an extremely complex AI. If you're going to build one of those (and it is just one, since that's all you can afford), why wait when you can get better performance right now by putting your best pilot in the thing?

(Note that the Zebras were, in my headcanon, developing mass-producible drone fighters (Raising the g limit to what the plane can withstand, rather than the tolerances of a flimsy meat pilot, may not be quite as much a gain as rainboom, but it's much cheaper and still quite significant. And, of course, when the AIs started getting not just "good enough" but "better than a living pilot"...), but none of them had gotten past the noncombat prototype stage at the time of the apocalypse.)

In summary I can't offer you any bits of evidence to directly shoot down your head-canon. At best what I can tell you is O-Hinds that to me... at this time the fact that the SS lacks a few notes of plasuability. The need of a rainboom projector small enough yet able to fire multiple shots as each redirection requires a usage sounds like an expensive bit of kit. The lack of counter to such a plane and the development track to get from sky-coaches to SS's in under ten years leaves me questioning the probability of it's existence.

What do you mean by "each redirection requires a usage"? And yes, it is an expensive bit of kit. A very expensive one. Also, it's not sky-coaches to the SS in a decade. More like WWI-era planes to the SS in two decades.

The lack of a counter is potentially problematic, though, yes. If Equestria could build the counter and didn't, then either the SS doesn't exist or there was some other reason (and I'm not sure what that might be). If they did build the counter... well, if they built it prior to the plane's existence, the plane doesn't exist; if they built it after, then the plane (and, since this is the bleeding edge in speed and maneuverability, pretty much all non-stealthed Zebra air power) can't do much but run when cloudships enter a battle.

...Wait.

Aha! I have a retort! If the cloudships are equipped with such a system...

Text:

...then why don't they use it, fire a few shots from their energy weapons (which they have plenty of ammo for) and disintegrate her? The only Raptor weapons described as being used were also described as being too slow to hit a glowing target in a wing-powered vertical climb. Instead, shooting DD came down to sending soldiers to chase her, and in the end they were so desperate that they used their valuable missiles. It doesn't look like Raptors have poor point defense; it looks like they have no point defense.

Now, poor, or just pretty good, point defense could mean that that was adequate for the threats faced, which would be pretty good evidence against the existence of something like the SS (not conclusive evidence, since maybe, due to the SS's late introduction, Equestria was still developing and/or deploying the system at the end of the war or something...). A total lack of point defense suggests that they were either ridiculously overconfident (which... is possible, actually, given what we've seen of the wartime pegasi) or were relying on pegasus soldiers and small vehicles for defense, operating under the assumption that the Raptor's onboard forces could deploy and eliminate any threats before the Raptor was in danger. Given that, while they're not totally stupid, the latter assumption has the minor flaw of a huge vulnerability to something as simple as a few camouflaged SAM batteries, I suspect that it's a mixture of the two. In any case, while, in this situation, the existence of the SS might be enough to make them reevaluate their strategy, I doubt that they'd have gotten from "nothing" to "PDS good enough to shoot down incoming smart supersonic bogeys that can shoot back and make right-angle turns" and then gotten that system widely installed (if they got it working well enough at all) by the end of the war.

Honestly, I'm not fond of making the Rainboom able to be mechanimagically reproducible, even by the SPP. But I think the idea behind putting it on a fighter rather than a missile would be for the maneuverability; while a missile wouldn't risk a crew, relying on an AI to bring it safely back would eventually run into the problem of that AI getting out of its league, no matter how advanced it was. And while that field of technology is almost scarily well-developed on the Zebras' side, they don't seem to have invested nearly as heavily in remote non-autonomous systems. So instead, putting the tech on a manned vessel allows them to consistently bring it back to base—making it multi-use (especially with a good pilot) instead of limited. It would certainly be expensive, but Hinds already said that there was only one produced. The prototype was evidently not quite effective enough to justify the price.

Edit: To be more concise, a fighter allows many more uses for the amount of money spent, and even that wasn't good enough to start production. And as for the lack of effective counters, I'd say that there wasn't much need for them against a single plane. Sure there were probably plans drawn up in case more were made, but, again, money.

Right. Also, entrusting the plane to an AI carries a potentially increased risk of the vehicle getting captured, and we do not want Equestria having an opportunity to reverse-engineer fighter-sized rainboom tech. After all, the magic system would be much cheaper for them, and they might actually be able to build rainboom missiles (they probably wouldn't... but why take the chance?).

"Password."
"Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine."

Win.

:)

...Sorry, but I still don't really see significant problems. Would you like me to refer this to the rest of the team?

Uh, sure... either that, or explain to me how they're not incorrect.

I just don't see anything wrong with them. Referral email sent, however.

[O. Hinds]

@SilentCarto:
Word back from Somber! While they concur that the second complaint is not a problem, the first and third have been rewritten to:
"surface ponies'"
and
"“I’ve got to wonder how Rampage remembers things when she dies when souls can’t,” I said, trying to think it through."

[Cptadder]

I will respond in the morning O.Hinds but you raised some interesting points that deserve a more in depth response which means some research and review and that takes an hour... an hour much easier to justify to myself after seven hours of sleep than before six hours of sleep.

[O. Hinds]

I will respond in the morning O.Hinds but you raised some interesting points that deserve a more in depth response which means some research and review and that takes an hour... an hour much easier to justify to myself after seven hours of sleep than before six hours of sleep.

Ah, right then. Sleep well.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

hinds, you're in the habit of constructing some big giant anti pony machine, its supposed to be totally untouchable/ none of modern science can counter it and it performs perfectly when deployed in the field.

oh rainbooms come from pegasus magic... so think this carefully...

another question, something like a rainboom generator would have to have a build up time. Like a charge that needs building

another thing

YOU REALLY LIKE TO MAKE BOLOS! this one guy makes them his deus ex machina in about 85% of his fanfictions, they are the end all save all of all technology... Military perfection one would say. If it would end the war, or win the war it was a bolo...

I like to use metal gear tech personally, but nothing really on the scale of this one ship can take out an entire battle fleet...(ie aircraft carrier group) more along the lines of the muscle suit being used as an under layer to Mjolnir armor reducing the cost of construction and weight(although the cost really comes from the fusion reactor on the back of the thing). Raiden's cyborg augmentation for prosthetics and spec ops/ Gecko being deployed to suppress a zombie outbreak. Small things that would alter a bit of the battle to the advantage of a side, nothing that is we have this one really big hammer and when we swing it, its gonna hit you because its our big hammer...

Honestly some of the descriptions I have gotten is it works like an ancient drone it jukes and strafes to get to its target. If it is a fighter meant to handle a pilot and controls, thruster system and a rainboom generator it must have a lot of mass, mass gains inertia as it moves, and for you to even think of such a thing without first considering the fact that there is only so much an inertial dampener can take before the bloody ship rips itself in half. or worse yet, the pilot is turned to mush.

[O. Hinds]

hinds, you're in the habit of constructing some big giant anti pony machine, its supposed to be totally untouchable/ none of modern science can counter it and it performs perfectly when deployed in the field.

Well, it isn't a perfect machine. A lucky shot could take it out, and a PDS like the one Cptadder was discussing would make it very difficult for the plane to do much against Raptors or Thunderheads. It's vulnerable on the ground, as is its pilot, and while in flight but not combat a surprise beam strike from "safe" ground could probably oneshot it. Also, as a unique airplane, it has a lot of unique parts, some of which are practically irreplaceable.

Oh, and if it makes you feel any better about so many of my creations being Zebra, I did recently devote some pondering time to the Hurricane-class cloudship concept.

oh rainbooms come from pegasus magic... so think this carefully...

Magic is magic is physics, and, in any case, we already know that mechanizing rainbooms can be done.

another question, something like a rainboom generator would have to have a build up time. Like a charge that needs building

...Why? I'm not saying that it wouldn't, but why would it have to?

another thing

YOU REALLY LIKE TO MAKE BOLOS! this one guy makes them his deus ex machina in about 85% of his fanfictions, they are the end all save all of all technology... Military perfection one would say. If it would end the war, or win the war it was a bolo...

What, in this context, is a bolo?

Honestly some of the descriptions I have gotten is it works like an ancient drone it jukes and strafes to get to its target. If it is a fighter meant to handle a pilot and controls, thruster system and a rainboom generator it must have a lot of mass, mass gains inertia as it moves, and for you to even think of such a thing without first considering the fact that there is only so much an inertial dampener can take before the bloody ship rips itself in half. or worse yet, the pilot is turned to mush.

Unfortunately, I don't have any data on the particular effects of the rainboom state. Working with what I have, I have assumed that a single-seat fighter constructed with the best Zebra engineering is within the limits. Oh, and I've no idea what the thruster system is like; again, I am lacking a great deal of data...

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

oh, umm nothing personal i'm just being crotchety

also bolos to my understanding are massive death walker military machines

I haven't a clue,

[O. Hinds]

oh, umm nothing personal i'm just being crotchety

also bolos to my understanding are massive death walker military machines

I haven't a clue,

Ooookay...

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

I say we also include cyborg ninja ponies... wait they just did that in chapter 50...

what about...ummm using poo as a weapon

Oh wait! I know what must be done

thermonuclear warfare

[Kippershy]

Speaking of ninjas

I wonder if anyone has ever gone up to Somber and asked for their character to be inserted into his story.
Had that happen to me the other day.

(edit: the reason that reminded me of this is because their character is a ninja)

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Why did it become so?
Because they could do it and modular computing was the way of the future
when the ATX-type casing came out. Though I agree, that's freaking
amazing.

Slap some more fans onto it, your PSU can handle it.
Something like fans don't overload the PSU unless you're literally sucking every tiny bit of power to the capacity as it is.
Even then, that's not just "oh, your system requires this 550w to run, so it's using every last bit." that's when you need 550 to run, but are using 450 or 500.
Fans cost next to nothing in terms of power usage.


As for the price? £765 total if you add in buying two extra fans & a fan controller since it was too loud by itself.
(They were all running at max speed, sounded like a jet trying to take off.)
Which in CAD, is roughly 1,200.

[IncoherentOrange]

@Kipper

Spoiler:

[Somber]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/Bolo?from=Main.Bolo.

I personally have little love of bolos given that an adversary could simply imbed themselves into a civilian population, evade, hide among the populace, and while they could never hope to actually destroy the bolo, really they'd never need to. They could easily kill, torment, and control the civilian population. The idea of a bolo is an unstoppable war machine is pretty obsolete in today's terrorist centric environment.

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