Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[O. Hinds]

That is what I remember.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I'll have to correct the Gdoc tonight.

[SilentCarto]

Thank you, I wasn't sure.

Do you confirm the R&D headquarter was in Hoofington?

What, Stable-Tec R&D? Yes, that was where BJ met Apple Bot and fought Ares and Aquarius. I don't know that it was the headquarters of Stable-Tec R&D, though. Just an R&D site. (Chapter 19, by the way.)

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, in absence of any "canon" mention one way or another, fall back on making shit up. :v


Gdoc corrected, by the way.

[SilentCarto]

Well, in absence of any "canon" mention one way or another, fall back on making shit up. :v.

Oh, an argument can certainly be made that this was the HQ of R&D. After all, that office had plans and models for various stables that were never built. (OR WERE THEY? DUN DUN DUN!) If you decided that this was AB's personal design space in your story, I wouldn't object. As you say, it's totally ambiguous.

[Harmony Ltd.]

On my side I chose to see it as the R&D HQ. Which would fits with the idea that Hoofington was Equestria's oaboratory.

[Meleagridis]

Also, is there stated somewhere how deep underground the effect of the Gardens of Equestria reaches? Because the Complex is quite deep, and radiation has had two centuries to seep in through the cracks left by the intense balefire bombardment on the local geology.

Well, with a Complex as needlessly complex and deep as Aperture Science, I don't think anybody would consider it a breach of canon if some hazardous materials survived. Would they have any need to store it? A container that protects civilians from its contents might protect the contents from civilians, at least through several hundred feet of rock and metal. Of course, this would mean that these hazardous waste materials would never get out to cause chaos unless you had residents of the Complex dependent on Flux or radiation. And really... why wouldn't you?

[SilentCarto]

Well, with a Complex as needlessly complex and deep as Aperture Science, I don't think anybody would consider it a breach of canon if some hazardous materials survived. Would they have any need to store it? A container that protects civilians from its contents might protect the contents from civilians, at least through several hundred feet of rock and metal. Of course, this would mean that these hazardous waste materials would never get out to cause chaos unless you had residents of the Complex dependent on Flux or radiation. And really... why wouldn't you?

That brings up an interesting point. A complex built to be shielded against megaspells might well be equally shielded against Gardens. Standard stables are simply buried deep enough that a spell detonating on the surface can't penetrate, but if the builders of this place were as paranoid as they sound, they might have provided some kind of arcane shielding as well -- whether that's in the form of passive magic-resistant materials or active antimagic fields.

For that matter, the complex might interpret Gardens as a megaspell attack and react accordingly...

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, in any event, the Complex has its order to maintain radio silence, and generally try to avoid drawing attention to itself.

It has already been rebuilding and then expanding for the better part of the last two centuries. I suppose the Complex may have decided to "aggressively" expand after the Gardens (expanding deeper and farther), and further reinforcing itself against the possibility of a new attack against itself; at least until the Mystery People took control of it and halted things before they went out of hand?

Maybe the Mystery People discovered the Complex -because- of these anomalous activities? I suppose anyone with a sismograph in the Stalliongrad area might get strange readings...

[Meleagridis]

What would happen if they interpreted the Gardens as an attack?

[Harmony Ltd.]

What I said above.

The Complex is a giant factory, its primary directive is "produce stuff for the War Effort". It isn't "Fight the War". So its reaction would more along the line of "secure, reinforce and harden" than anything turned outward.

The last orders they received was basically "preserve yourselves until we need you again".

[Harmony Ltd.]

So, seeing as I'm bored and feeling a bit creative, let's work on fleshing out the State of Trottingham.


Let's start by recaping what we already know about that place:

- Highly influenced by the local Steel Rangers chapter(s).
- The Applejack Rangers are dominant there by the time it becomes relevant around the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows (IIRC? I seem to recall as such, at least).


Things we can maybe imagine:
- Naval base during the Great War (not as important as Hoofington, though)
- Lots of British-related horsepuns
- Association of the two? "Rule Trottingham, Trottingham rule the waves"?


Proposal:
- The place was, before the war, the homeport of most Equestrian ships in the northern sea, and only got dethroned later as Hoofington gained in importance. Had / has a longstanding naval tradition (due in no small to the fact it's an island isolated from the continent), and is proud of its culture, which is sensibly different from the continental one by a number of aspects (note: playing up the English/British thing there).
- Got wrecked like the rest of Equestria during the Days of Fire, but the constant rains & storms of the Northen Sea at least had the advantage of washing up most of the radiations relatively quickly (in the span of a few decades), concentrating it only in a few hotspots where the rainwater couldn't flow to the ocean. Primary source of drinking water was rain.
- The climate, added to "that bloody cloud cover", made any attempt at agriculture pretty much futile, pushing the locals to rely on fishing the radioactive waters of the Northern Sea and trading with the continent in order to survive.
- The local chapter of the Steel Rangers, who were stationed there when the bombs fell (local homeboys, so to speak), were actually of the noble kind, as they took upon themselves to organize the survivors into some semblance of society, almost peaceful by the standard of the rest of the wasteland. Maintaining the peace was made easier due to the fact the island was isolated from the continent, and reaching it meant crossing the treacherous waters of the strait, something only the most batshit insane of raider gang would try.
- Coincidentally, this made the Trottingham chapter of the Steel Rangers one of the most powerful and influent at the Council of Elders, with ample ponypower at its disposal, be it for fighting, repairing/producing, or more intellectual pursuits. Thus when the Applejack Rangers won that chapter, this was a heavy blow for the "Traditionalist" Steel Rangers.
- Upon joining the NCR, Trottingham promptly sent its forces to fight alongside the rest of the NCR's forces, against Red Eye's remnants, the still ongoing Operation Cauterize, and the general chaos of that particular time period. Later on, when it became time to fight the Bitter War, most of the Applejack Rangers cadre who trained the nascent NCR Armed Forces was from Trottingham.
- Nowadays, most of the sailors of the (admittedly small) NCR Navy hail from Trottingham.

[O. Hinds]

The Applejack Rangers are dominant there by the time it becomes relevant around the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows (IIRC? I seem to recall as such, at least).

My memory agrees on that point.

- Naval base during the Great War (not as important as Hoofington, though)
- Lots of British-related horsepuns
- Association of the two? “Rule Trottingham, Trottingham rule the waves”?

Well, looking at the map, Trottingham, Stockhast, and Hoofington look like the natural major ports of the peninsula’s north coast.  Hm.  I seem to recall that we put some significant shipyards in Stockhast…  Or was it that the city was the center of Equestria’s brown water navy?  I’m afraid that I’m not sure, and I don’t seem to be having much luck looking back to find it.

The rest of that all seems to make sense.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I don't recall anything specific about Stockhast myself. Though looking at the map, having shipyards there would sound logical.

I can imagine Stockhast handling the smaller ships in the Equestrian Navy, those dedicated to guarding its territorial waters (guarding the straits around the various islands of the north), while Hoofington handles the capital ships (like the Celestia and Luna), and Trottingham handles the patrol ships at large, guarding the waters around the north of the Peninsula against PR submarines and the like.

[O. Hinds]

Right, I think that that's what I was thinking; I just can't seem to find where I said it.

Oh, and Equestria's biggest shipyards were in San Frantello.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I wonder what a post-apocalyptic London would look like...

*insert street gangers swearing in a really thick cockney accent*


So I guess we'll be playing Fancee as a blown-up Paris, then? Heh. That might be fun.

... Giving me some ideas already.

[Harmony Ltd.]

So, if Trottingham is going to play London-expy, I think it's only fair to imagine Fancee as the setting's Paris-expy.

First thing first, though:

Due to how close it is to the coast, I would imagine that Fancee, if not the city itself but one in its periphery, is actually a port town; or at least linked to sea-trade - probably primarily the sealane with Trottingham historically.

I would imagine this could be a source of wealth for the city.

How wealthy it would be would probably depend on the wealth of the surrounding countryside.


Thinking:

-IF- we imagine that the lake southeast of Fancee is actually an artificial one made by a Dam built during the early days of the Great War to supply hydroelectricity to a large part of Equestria, this could have interesting consequences on the city.
Indeed, it could have gutted it of a large part of its wealth, a large part of the surrounding countryside now being flooded. So the pre-apocalypse story for Fancee could be that of a city that used to be affluent, wealthy, and a beacon of high living and high culture (a Canterlot outside of Canterlot?), having to deal with the loss of its wealth and falling into decay, trying to adapt to a paradigm shift.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Hah!

Fancee trying to retain its tourism industry by turning into a gambling city, full of casinos, theatres turned into less classy "Can Can" showplaces, etc... Helped in large part by the electricity produced by the dam.

And with the coast close, maybe trying to promote sea-related tourism, with the creation of new sports, thanks to the place's climate (strong winds & waves).

[O. Hinds]

Heh, neat. :)

For some reason it seems better to me that the dam be built in the late prewar period rather than the early part of the war, though. Or at least have construction started then. Thoughts?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, the war was started when the Zebra started withholding coal shipments to Equestria, right? Until then, as I understand it (I might be wrong), Equestria was content to rely pretty much at 100% on Coal for its energy needs. (*)

It's only after coal became scarce that they felt the need to diversify their energy sources.

So having the dam be built pre-war would kind of contradict that. No?



On the other hand, the project for the dam's construction could pre-date the war, but its cost was then deemed too high (and indeed it historically was, see above about Fancee). It could be the panic brought by the Big Blackout in the genesis of the War (maybe even before the war itself was formally started) that would have led the aristocracy to convince Celestia of sacrificing a part of Equestria's countryside so that it could stave off the energy penury.

What do you think?


(*) maybe not really, but easily 90-95%, I'd think, from what I perceive of what is said of that period in both FoE and PH.

[Harmony Ltd.]

So to answer the question that was asked (when the dam's construction was started), it might very well be "in the month(s) following the start of the coal embargo", as some entrepreneurs linked with the aristocracy had been sitting on that project, trying to push for its realization for years, maybe even a decade by then; and were just waiting for an occasion to finally do it.

[O. Hinds]

On the other hand, the project for the dam's construction could pre-date the war, but its cost was then deemed too high (and indeed it historically was, see above about Fancee). It could be the panic brought by the Big Blackout in the genesis of the War (maybe even before the war itself was formally started) that would have led the aristocracy to convince Celestia of sacrificing a part of Equestria's countryside so that it could stave off the energy penury.

What do you think?

That’s pretty much what I was thinking, yes.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Just checked on the map, and Fancee is less than 10km from the coast, and a 20km from the lakeshore.


Positive point is, industry could have set itself up on the lakeshore, and would have had a easy time sending its products down the Trotson river to Manehatten. The reverse also being true (fret coming from Manehatten just having to go up the Trotson River to reach Fancee).

And if Fancee was the primary link of Trottingham with the continent, that means the lake may actually have reinforced its role as a trade hub.


Hmmm... But would that be enough to cover for the fact that a lot of ponies that used to live in the surrounding countryside emigrated to the city in order to make a living?

Maybe the problem for Fancee was less "we don't have money anymore" and more "there's too many damn poor people in our streets!"?

[SilentCarto]

Hah!

Fancee trying to retain its tourism industry by turning into a gambling city, full of casinos, theatres turned into less classy "Can Can" showplaces, etc... Helped in large part by the electricity produced by the dam.

And with the coast close, maybe trying to promote sea-related tourism, with the creation of new sports, thanks to the place's climate (strong winds & waves).

This kind of reminds me of Amsterdam's relationship with the Zuiderzee.

[O. Hinds]

Maybe the problem for Fancee was less "we don't have money anymore" and more "there's too many damn poor people in our streets!"?

Which of course leads to all the lovely results of a city having a few ponies getting much richer off the expanded trade and an increasingly large number of poor ponies needing housing and support...

Oh, yes, and the Pax Roamana's agents will quite possibly salivate once the war gets bad enough for this to be fair game. "What has Equestria done for you besides take the farm your great-great grandmother built, drown it, and put you in a tiny apartment next to the mansion of somepony getting rich from your loss?"
And the Equestrian government, on the other side, will likely be blaming the loss on the zebras (no need for the dam if the coal had kept coming, after all) and be keen to capitalise on all those young, strong farm ponies who've just been displaced and could do with jobs (say, jobs in which they'd have a chance to get back at the zebras that took their homes...).

[Harmony Ltd.]

@ Silentcarto: can't say I know much about the Zuiderzee. Quickly read the wiki article on the subject - seems kinda reversed, in some ways. I dunno.

@ Hinds: Pretty much, yeah. By the way, this also mean it would have resulted in a reduction of the amount of food produced locally, unless the lake had good fisheries. Though I doubt there would have ever been a risk of famine, given just how productive Equestrian agriculture has always been. It just means it had to get shipped from elsewhere.

[SilentCarto]

@ Silentcarto: can't say I know much about the Zuiderzee. Quickly read the wiki article on the subject - seems kinda reversed, in some ways. I dunno.

Just in the way that Amsterdam suddenly found itself a seaside town literally overnight, and while that's kind of important to them now, they'd also really like that drowned land back.

[O. Hinds]

@ Hinds: Pretty much, yeah. By the way, this also mean it would have resulted in a reduction of the amount of food produced locally, unless the lake had good fisheries. Though I doubt there would have ever been a risk of famine, given just how productive Equestrian agriculture has always been. It just means it had to get shipped from elsewhere.

I imagine that the lake would have good fishing (or... freshwater kelp harvesting? I'm not sure if preapocalypse ponies ate all that much fish) eventually, but it would take time for the seed stock to develop.

On another note, I had a thought: we've not done anything with an Italy counterpart, and we've not done anything with that large island in the southwest. Two birds with one stone? It's separated from the mainland by a straight and mountains, giving it a sense of foreign-ness to the majority of Equestria despite its closeness, and it looks like it would be the closest significantly large Equestrian population center to the majority of the Pax Roamana (including the Strait of Gibhalter); those seem like good circumstances for a mingling of cultures. It could also put the place in a rather awkward situation when the war begins. And sure, Equestria built an SPP tower there, but they also built towers in the Highlands. Thoughts?

Oh, and think we ought to do anything special with the northern islands?

[Harmony Ltd.]

I thought the Miliozi were the one handling the Italy thing? What with their hymn being ripped from an Italian patriotic chant?

Anyway, yes, it's true we haven't done anything with that island yet.

I'll let you handle the idea-seeds on that one?

[Harmony Ltd.]

While we're on a roll, Great Paulomino...

Do you already have ideas for it, or is it a blank slate still?


Old name was "Sao Paulomino", which would be close to "Sao Paulo". So something Portuguese / Brazilian-inspired?

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