Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[Scienza]

Scienzabait (middle bottom, new episode spoiler): https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1609620_716335488397409_1542343288_n.jpg

D'awww...

[CamoBadger]

Scienzabait (middle bottom, new episode spoiler): https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1609620_716335488397409_1542343288_n.jpg

Bestmanepony...as a filly...

HERK

[Scienza]

Scienzabait (middle bottom, new episode spoiler): https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1609620_716335488397409_1542343288_n.jpg

Bestmanepony...as a filly...

HERK

BEST PONY IS TINY HORSE!

[O. Hinds]

Addition to my earlier Winningverse post:

Spoiler:

It's marked as an edit because I originally added it to my post on FIMFiction.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

Scienzabait (middle bottom, new episode spoiler): https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1609620_716335488397409_1542343288_n.jpg

Swickedbait:
http://azgamerman.deviantart.com/art/Sick-Celestia-430871684
http://i-am-knot.deviantart.com/art/Regrets-431142012?ga_submit_new=10%253A1391292776

Now we know Cheerilee is Pinkies age, and AJ's

We also know that Berry Punch is older than the rest

[O. Hinds]

Addition to my earlier Winningverse post:

Spoiler:

It's marked as an edit because I originally added it to my post on FIMFiction.

What changed your opinion?

My respect for her abilities has not changed since we last spoke on the matter; it is simply that I found, upon returning to the story, that the change to my emotions wrought by my revelation was a temporary one. I believe that my realization of the extent of her actions temporarily obscured from my mind what seeing her attempt to cast herself as a beleaguered hero actually looked like.

[O. Hinds]

You know, I may be too late for the poll, but what I find most interesting about it is choice of categories offered. "Celestia", "Rebels", "Neutral", and "Whichever Side Shadow's on". The idea that a reader might have no particular quarrel with and perhaps even pity Celestia, sympathize with the rebels, and regard Shadow as the villain of the piece does not seem to have occurred to the poll's creator.

I must confess, I am not used to having such strong emotional reactions to characters; I am not entirely sure what it is about Shadow that riles me so.

[Tytan]

Camo, I heard that you moved to somewhere in the vicinity of Denver.

I was just looking for a random subject that pertained to denver... I probably should have just mentioned the superbowl:

[Tytan]

Swicked, are you just switching your avatar every ten minutes?

[O. Hinds]

I believe that my realization of the extent of her actions temporarily obscured from my mind what seeing her attempt to cast herself as a beleaguered hero actually looked like.

I'm having some difficulty understanding what you are saying here. The extent of her actions... in light of the conspiracy you suspect exists behind them? Then that changed when you read the story and saw how she writes herself? I'm confused.

Hm.  My apologies.  I shall try to explain in more detail.

Spoiler:

[O. Hinds]

Swicked, are you just switching your avatar every ten minutes?

I have been wondering this too. :)

[Tytan]

Swicked, are you just switching your avatar every ten minutes?

I have been wondering this too.  :)

Hold the buggering fuck on. It changes nearly every time you refresh.

I call shenanigans.

And dark wizardry.

Dark Shenaniganry.

[O. Hinds]

I must confess, I am not used to having such strong emotional reactions to characters; I am not entirely sure what it is about Shadow that riles me so.

Maybe it's just because you can't accept her narrative. That's more than just not liking a character, let alone hating a character. It's how the fic was written that angers you.

I had a similar experience when I tried to read Fallout Equestria: Heroes. The main character kills a bunch of the militia that keeps her home protected, then is let to go free. Well, one of them poisons her leg, but otherwise free. The poison would have eventually killed her, but she comes across a friendly machinist who replaces the leg with a cyber one that's much more powerful. For free.
Jump forward a bit and she's been contracted to kill what appears to be a friendly old lady. She accepts the job because whatever, it's money, and "luckily" it turns out the lady was running some kinda slave traffic in her basement that nobody knew about. The "hero" takes the little filly slave from down there and immediately sells her to some other slavers. Then turns around and kills them all as soon as they turn their backs. She gets incredibly wounded but, hey, turns out the filly is a trauma doctor.

You're basically being emotionally railroaded. The fic is telling you what you're supposed to be thinking and you're not accepting the narrative, much like I couldn't accept the way the author of Heroes constantly twisted the world around Silver in order to paint Silver as still being a hero and prevent her from suffering any real consequences for her actions.
Shadow is being a traitor and an asshole but the fic insists she's the hero so you're being forced to accept everyone else as being the bad guys.

...Hum. An interesting point. And because the story is Shadow's autobiography, edited by one of her descendants, my lack of acceptance of the narrative would be placed at her hooves... Which would naturally lead me to the conclusion that, since it is the narrative's relation to her that I find unacceptable and she wrote the narrative, she was being mendacious to make herself look better. And if this is her idea of making herself look better and can be assumed to not drift too far from the true historical facts (for such deviation would be noticed), then the matters that she's covering up must be very bad indeed. And then one commences reading between the lines of this and other Winningverse fics...
That said, it is rather disturbing how easily the hidden dark history comes together.

(Oh, and I couldn't get very far in Heroes either. :) I'm pretty sure that I didn't manage to get to the middle of the second chapter...)

[O. Hinds]

Also, you're quite right: however fun it is to read, it certainly is fun to talk about. :)

[O. Hinds]

...And I seriously now want to read the true story of Shadow Kicker as I've been deducing it.  It sounds pretty awesome. Though, then again, it might be that a lot of it is like Stalin's rise: slow, methodical, devastatingly effective, and very boring to watch.

[O. Hinds]

It might be fun to create a separate topic for this. As additional chapters come out, we could try to dissect them to determine the facts from the bias. We might even have a nearly cohesive story by the end of this prequel story series.

Plus, if history is any indicator, chances are the author might somehow find their way here (like happens with most story threads that end up posted), see us talking about the story within his story, and denounce us as insane.

Haha!  Yes!  Oh, and perhaps we should even get cameos in one of the stories as ranting conspiracy theorists of ill repute!
(Note: I am entirely serious in my delight at this prospect.  Yes, I know that I am weird.)

What do you think might be extracted from the two interludes of earth pony politics?  They portray important events, but they are by a different author, one presumably unconnected to the Kickers, and written long after the fact.  And, strangely, in them it is much easier to sympathize with everypony involved...

[O. Hinds]

Spoilers for said segments:

[O. Hinds]

Yes, Apple Tree did not trust Celestia. His experience with distant figures of power was quite negative, and he had no reason to think she'd be any different. Her intentions may have been genuine, but the words that she used to convey them had been used before for lies. And he was a simple farmer, with no political education. He was wrong, but he was not inexcusably wrong, and the last we saw of him, he was despairing over how to properly help his people.

Shadow Kicker, on the other hand, was a clan head and Ephor of Pegasopolis and knew Celestia and various other prominent members of the Unicornian court both personally and professionally.

[O. Hinds]

In my experience, a protagonist like Shadow Kicker is quite unusual in the Winningverse. Granted, I do not read all of the stories, but the characters, heroes and villains alike (including one character who is a despicable villain in one story and the villain protagonist in another), tend to be, if not necessarily good, driven by sensible and often likeable motivations. They fail at times, of course, but they are not lauded as heroes for doing so. Shadow Kicker seems to me to be a significant outlier.

[O. Hinds]

This should apply to Carrot, as well. Carrot certainly supported taking down the magistrates, though not quite with Apple's passion, which is why Apple was the head of the campaign.

Aye, but Carrot was more conservative, more fearful of war.  To Apple Tree, justice was worth fighting; to Danver Carrot, a lack of fighting was worth a lack of justice.  And, had he been correct in his assessment… in thirty years, the system would be reformed.  No great blood would be spilled.  Earth pony democracy would endure, as would its semi-sovereignty.  Danver Carrot and Apple Tree were close to each other, but they were on opposite sides of thin line.  Before, that line had not mattered, but when the pressure got high enough…

Heck, given it's Sunbeam's goal to destabilize both the pegasi and the earth ponies so that they can be folded into the unicorn political system, she might have actively prevented Celestia from learning about the issues with the earth ponies while she worked on defaming the pegasi.

On that note, I've just finished reading the only so-far-posed chapter of Rise of the Phoenix Empress, and AU story diverging, it would appear, after the Rebellion and starring Sunbeam Sparkle.  Who continues to, even with her faults, to be more sympathetic and likeable than Shadow Kicker's portrayal of herself.  Oh, and it contains this, among other things:

Spoiler:

Yep, I'm sure that everything's aboveboard there.

Celestia's also an immortal, so her 30 year plan WAS the short-term solution :P

Of course.  To her, it makes perfect sense.  To the earth ponies, particularly the simple farmers who's only experiences with politics are the soft-hooved magnates collecting taxes and making empty promises?  To the ponies who haven't seen Celestia in decades because she's dwelling in faraway luxury among the unicorns?

[O. Hinds]

Goodnight!

[Valikdu]

Looks like we got a release date for the second episode of Wolf among us.

lul:

"What's a Twilight?"

[Valikdu]

I had a similar experience when I tried to read Fallout Equestria: Heroes. The main character kills a bunch of the militia that keeps her home protected, then is let to go free. Well, one of them poisons her leg, but otherwise free. The poison would have eventually killed her, but she comes across a friendly machinist who replaces the leg with a cyber one that's much more powerful. For free.
Jump forward a bit and she's been contracted to kill what appears to be a friendly old lady. She accepts the job because whatever, it's money, and "luckily" it turns out the lady was running some kinda slave traffic in her basement that nobody knew about. The "hero" takes the little filly slave from down there and immediately sells her to some other slavers. Then turns around and kills them all as soon as they turn their backs. She gets incredibly wounded but, hey, turns out the filly is a trauma doctor.

You're basically being emotionally railroaded. The fic is telling you what you're supposed to be thinking and you're not accepting the narrative, much like I couldn't accept the way the author of Heroes constantly twisted the world around Silver in order to paint Silver as still being a hero and prevent her from suffering any real consequences for her actions.

That was exactly like my own experience with Heroes.

[Tytan]

I had a similar experience when I tried to read Fallout Equestria: Heroes. The main character kills a bunch of the militia that keeps her home protected, then is let to go free. Well, one of them poisons her leg, but otherwise free. The poison would have eventually killed her, but she comes across a friendly machinist who replaces the leg with a cyber one that's much more powerful. For free.
Jump forward a bit and she's been contracted to kill what appears to be a friendly old lady. She accepts the job because whatever, it's money, and "luckily" it turns out the lady was running some kinda slave traffic in her basement that nobody knew about. The "hero" takes the little filly slave from down there and immediately sells her to some other slavers. Then turns around and kills them all as soon as they turn their backs. She gets incredibly wounded but, hey, turns out the filly is a trauma doctor.

You're basically being emotionally railroaded. The fic is telling you what you're supposed to be thinking and you're not accepting the narrative, much like I couldn't accept the way the author of Heroes constantly twisted the world around Silver in order to paint Silver as still being a hero and prevent her from suffering any real consequences for her actions.

That was exactly like my own experience with Heroes.

There is another possibility. (However unlikely it may be) Perhaps you're being railroaded on purpose. We know from the start the character is borderline shortbus. The character admits it freely. And all throughout she is attempting to intentionally ignoring her own moral compass in favor of making money. She of course fails miserably from time to time and tries to do what she thinks is right, and unfortunately she isn't always right.

I'll admit its a little schizophrenic, but at least it's semi-original. A character who tries to be a good guy but due to her own stupidity is either unintentionally or manipulated into being the bad guy. BUT, because you're emotionally railroaded into the main characters favor you see how she could think she's doing the right thing. She thinks she's a hero even though we know she isn't.

And to be fair she killed the militia because they killed her mom and she thought they kidnapped her brother. After her failure and cyberization she decides she's to dumb to make her own moral decisions and makes the decision to be a merc. She decides that no matter what the job she'll do it as long as she's paid. I think that's why she waited to get paid before killing the slavers to save the filly.



I hope I communicated my point well, because honestly I haven't got a clue if it even makes sense outside my own head.

[Tytan]

P.s. I fucking love these videos:

[Katarn]

I feel this guy's pain:

@Heroes

I was, kinda, fan of that fic, though recently it become boring for me to read it..I believe it was around

Spoiler:

I don't know really why, but just that. And Hired ain't dumb..not like BJ, at least.

[CamoBadger]

Tytan...
Why is your avatar a Commissar...in an Angry MARINES hat?

THIS IS HERESY

[Katarn]

[CamoBadger]

I will end you all...

[Katarn]

my offering to please camo:

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