Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Derpmind]

You guys are far too sensitive.

I have a thing against bad comedy.

[StoneSlinger88]

You guys are far too sensitive.

Bet you hear that a lot.

[Kippershy]

You guys are far too sensitive.

Bet you hear that a lot.

More like say it a lot.

[StoneSlinger88]

You guys are far too sensitive.

Bet you hear that a lot.

More like say it a lot.

I'm going to go ahead and give you a moment to process what you just typed.

[RoboRed]

K guys, drifting a bit off-topic here...

[Kippershy]

...I dun get it?
I know my humour is extremely on the borderline and more often than not, goes well beyond the line that most people find disturbing and unfunny, but that doesn't phase me in the slightest.
It's true that I'm often saying things like "you lot are too sensitive" when talking about my jokes... but I don't get what you could be pointing to with your joke or comment.
Not even with smut.

[StoneSlinger88]

I guess sometimes you just need a dirty mind.

Baaaaaaaack on topic, Deus should be king. Along with Lancer. I don't see a problem for a Zebra assassin and a formerly rape-inclined tank being regent over a large population; better than your average politician.

[Kippershy]

...Wait, there's a difference in that?
I thought all politicians were either war mongers or sex offenders in some way shape or form.
(So yes, they would be a good duo for it.)

[StoneSlinger88]

...Wait, there's a difference in that?
I thought all politicians were either war mongers or sex offenders in some way shape or form.
(So yes, they would be a good duo for it.)

Exactly! They're perfect!

[Derpmind]

You guys are far too sensitive.

Bet you hear that a lot.

More like say it a lot.

I'm going to go ahead and give you a moment to process what you just typed.

Uuuuugh. Both of you are terrible.

Those were not insults. They were not funny. Your mothers would not be ashamed. You do not pass go, and you do not collect $200.

[StoneSlinger88]

You guys are far too sensitive.

Bet you hear that a lot.

More like say it a lot.

I'm going to go ahead and give you a moment to process what you just typed.

Uuuuugh. Both of you are terrible.

Those were not insults. They were not funny. Your mothers would not be ashamed. You do not pass go, and you do not collect $200.

Hear that Kipper? WE DIDN'T OFFEND ANYBODY!! Victory has been achieved.

Now where's Blackjack and her whiskey, I need a drink.

[Downloaded Skill]

So I decided to write up a commentary since I think I'm the only one who doesn't do this at this point. Spoilered for length.

Commentary:

[O. Hinds]

And so the crack ship of Lancer and BJ has set sail. If there isn't a portmanteau'ed couple name like Gloryjack by the end of the week I'll be disappointed in the Internet.

Lancerjack.

[Downloaded Skill]

Ehh it doesn't really roll off the tongue well. Not like Gloryjack.

[Icy Shake]

It's a shame Fancypants was murdered, I did like him when he was around in the show. He probably could have prevented this nonsense.

I like to think that he's the best potential object in FiM to be presented as (shaped into?) the aristocratic ideal. And in a way, it's fitting that, if you take that to be the case, he died in the first great industrial war his country faced, if not on the battlefield. Though I agree, he might have been able to help--but there's only so much one can do against the poverty and violence of the Wasteland, perhaps especially from within.

Bloody Rampage trying to hug P-21 needs to be drawn.

Along with mine, that makes at least two specific calls for that picture. Has anyone else asked for it? Because it simply has to happen.

Ahhh the dealer. I missed him. His little speeches and philosophical musings are one of the things I love about Horizons.
An ordered society or a virtuous society. Certainly has connections to whats going on in America now.

I think that there's a perception that that might be the case, but I look at it as a false dilemma. Though I suppose here's not the place to go into that at length.

And so the crack ship of Lancer and BJ has set sail. If there isn't a portmanteau'ed couple name like Gloryjack by the end of the week I'll be disappointed in the Internet.

“With... your body... and the thoughts you’re trying to put inside my head!  Desist!  Now!”

Blancer? BlackJancer? LanceJack? BlackLance? I'm afraid I won't be the one to save the internet from your disappointment.

Although, I am of the opinion that--at least from Lancer's side--this has at least something going for it, at least since 54: the failure of the Legate to defeat and kill her could easily mix with his painfully obvious daddy issues to fuel him to some weird places regarding her.

Why is Glory giving BJ a concession. Is she conceding her values to maintain her relationship with BJ? That really doesn't seem healthy...

I'll agree with unhealthy, but the vibe I got was more desperate, and afraid, and ashamed, a crisis of self-image than just seeking to preserve what she has with Blackjack. It doesn't help, I expect, that Glory has expressed doubts--or at least mixed feelings--about her sexual morality, wishing that she could be more like Blackjack.

But I'm just going to through out the thought that what applies to Glory can just as easily apply to BJ--is it healthy for her to concede her cultural values to maintain her relationship with Glory?

[SilentCarto]

I do wonder who Blackjack's going to give the crown to, but my bits are on Splendid, given the chat with Dealer. And if nothing else, he's probably the one under whom the Society is least likely to collapse rapidly.

Uh, what? The Dealer couldn't have been more against Splendid.
"Is that pacified Wasteland worth living in without freedom? Is your goal to turn the Wasteland into one enormous Stable 99?"

I would make it crystal clear that if anybody was killed or even harmed, I would be back to level the whole god damn place regardless if it was an accident or not.

Oh... wait a minute... Oh, shit no...
Tell me she's not about to crown Deus!
Edit: Aaaand I'm late to the party. *sigh*

Ah, but by now releasing the order not to think about it, the Goddess now gets a chance to gloat about how clever she is.  As for Blackjack not realizing that she still couldn't tell people, I put that down to Blackjack being Blackjack.  At least, that's how I'm explaining it.  Does that work, or do I need to have this issue reopened until whenever I can get the others together again to address it?

Well, I'm in the "it was fine already" camp. This way came off (to me, at least) kind of like a "durr hurr, Blackjack is stoopid" joke. I guess I can read it the way you said, now that you say so, but the text itself doesn't really explain what Trixie is smug about. I read it as her just laughing at BJ's foolishness.

I think it would fix it if BJ made some reference to mental manipulation, like, "The Goddess’s smugness enveloped me, and I imagined a condescending pat on my head. Of course, we were going away now, and there was no way she was going to let me go back into the Enervation field after she allowed me to think of that idea."

P.S. Misplaced comma in "Of course, we were".

As for the weird luck of Boo... well, we know that she is born of Discord's blood. We also know that Blackjack got kissed by Discord. And it's become pretty evident that Boo isn't your run of the mill blank, but that there is something special about here - One In A Million. Blackjack's cutie mark also represent a game of luck and gamble. And if Boo got "tuned" into Blackjack...

...huh. That is an excellent point.

It also sort of brings up something I've had percolating in the back of my head for a while. How does BJ not understand the meaning of her own cutie mark?

A Brief Essay on Cutie Marks:

So, with all that in mind, there happens to be another FOE hero who didn't seem to understand her own cutie mark: Littlepip. But her case is a little different, in that rescusing that colt from the gardening shed was the proudest moment of her life until the day she left the Stable. I think she did understand her mark when it appeared, even if the drudgery of Stable life eventually ground it out of her. Who needs someone whose purpose is finding people when your entire world is the size of an office building? But it remained a subconscious impulse. When Velvet left Stable 2, Pip's first instinct was to go find her, whatever the cost.

Back to Blackjack. Maybe her case is similar to Pip's. Maybe she had a flash of insight when Hatches died, but it just didn't seem relevant to the life that she, her mother, the Stable, and the Overmare expected her to lead until her dying day. Maybe the horror of that moment discouraged a young Go Fish from dwelling on her epiphany. Whatever the truth is, I really doubt her cutie mark has anything to do with playing card games.


As an aside, the Ace of Spades is famously known as the "death card", though it's generally downplayed as general misfortune or upheaval. The Queen of Spades is generally said to represent a widow or divorcée. ...Hey, wait, I think we know one of those!

[Moodyman90]

So.... give the crown to Grace, put Hoity as second in command, and Dues as enforcer. The moment any of them are hurt, the Society is gone.
Shooty look, crazy grin, start literally eating a gun.

[SilentCarto]

Transformation or a very powerful Illusion spell. That's my take on it.

Transformation, I'd say. We kinda saw her do it on-screen in Luna Eclipsed, and there's no reason to think the Nightmare Moon form is the only one she can do.

I really love the reviews.  I got a great laugh right when I needed one Silent.  Even though the Glory thing has proved to be a bit of a mess... well... nice to know the complete chapter wasn't a wash.

Hee, thank you! And the Glory thing doesn't even register a 3.0 on the jimmyometer. I, for one, am glad to see Glory not being perfect either.
...and now I'm curious whether it was the mecha-liver or the beguiling flanks comment that made you laugh. ^_^

You know, the nice thing about internet hugs is that I can appreciate them despite not being a terribly huggy person in real life.

Although, I am of the opinion that--at least from Lancer's side--this has at least something going for it, at least since 54: the failure of the Legate to defeat and kill her could easily mix with his painfully obvious daddy issues to fuel him to some weird places regarding her.

Hmmm... sort of like when Dawn gave up her crusade to go live with Sky Striker?

P.S. I kinda like "BlackLance". Um, despite the potential, ah, connotations.
or maybe because of them

[O. Hinds]

Ehh it doesn't really roll off the tongue well. Not like Gloryjack.

[shrugs]

Although, I am of the opinion that--at least from Lancer's side--this has at least something going for it, at least since 54: the failure of the Legate to defeat and kill her could easily mix with his painfully obvious daddy issues to fuel him to some weird places regarding her.

I was thinking that too.

Well, I'm in the "it was fine already" camp.

So am I, but we as you know got enough complaints that Somber decided that it needed to be clarified.

This way came off (to me, at least) kind of like a "durr hurr, Blackjack is stoopid" joke. I guess I can read it the way you said, now that you say so, but the text itself doesn't really explain what Trixie is smug about. I read it as her ...hjust laughing at BJ's foolishness.

I think it would fix it if BJ made some reference to mental manipulation, like, "The Goddess’s smugness enveloped me, and I imagined a condescending pat on my head. Of course, we were going away now, and there was no way she was going to let me go back into the Enervation field after she allowed me to think of that idea."

Well, thank you for the suggestion.

And she wasn’t going to let me go back into the Enervation field now that she’d let me think of that.

There, modification in on my own initiative, since it's so small.  Please tell me that everyone's happy now?

P.S. Misplaced comma in "Of course, we were".

Ah, thank you.

[Kippershy]

By the way, how many other people had Grace pegged as an evil little demon from the get-go?
Really, anyone Rampage likes is probably gonna be pretty bad news.
I wonder if, when she said she'd gotten a message to deliver to Blackjack from somepony she described as being like herself, she'd really just gotten it from Grace and was seriously supporting her coming to power... up until Grace put Scotch and Boo in danger, I mean.

You mean Charm, not Grace.
Charm is the little bitch.

[SilentCarto]

"Hoofington will rise bigger and stronger than before and help restore true civility to the surface." - I already said I didn't like Splendid's plan before, but I didn't notice this until reading it again. Maybe it's just me being paranoid, and it's nothing but a turn of phrase, but those Harbingers had to come from somewhere...

Oh my. I missed that too, the first time. So now I half-expect the Gala to erupt into an invasion when BJ doesn't crown Splendid...

Boo picking out the picture in response to Blackjack asking her who should run the Society is not only adorable, but has a lot of implications as well. It certainly reinforces that she's capable of learning and understanding speech, at the very least.

Hey, wait just a dang minute... BJ asks who should run the Society, and Boo replies with a photo of Fluttershy and Garnet. Kindness without will and will bereft of kindness...
Did Boo just suggest co-rulership between Splendid and Grace?!

[SilentCarto]

A couple of re-fixes for 56:

[O. Hinds]

A couple of re-fixes for 56:

Ah, thank you.

[Derpmind]

@Not using the radio inside enervation: I though it had already been established that the goddess can implant mental commands that persist no matter what, (unless acted on by an outside psychic force...) and that would prevent BJ from doing anything to directly tell anyone because the goddess said not to. Why not just have a couple lines where BJ tries to say something on radio, and then is frustrated when something in her brain makes her say silly stuff instead?

...At least I think you're talking about the enervation radio thing. Anyways, I know the pink cloud messed with psychic stuff, but that was different. We see nothing like what happened to those alicorn in Lacunae.

So I decided to write up a commentary since I think I'm the only one who doesn't do this at this point.

Nope, that would be me. My very first comment on PH, back in August 2011, has me promising to do a reading commentary on the next chapter, and I still haven't done so. I was halfway through this chapter when I remembered I wanted to do one.

Hey, wait just a dang minute... BJ asks who should run the Society, and Boo replies with a photo of Fluttershy and Garnet. Kindness without will and will bereft of kindness...
Did Boo just suggest co-rulership between Splendid and Grace?!

Nope, she's suggesting Psychoshy! Side-side quest, Ho!

...Go Lance? Fishlance? Lancefish? Go, Lancer-fish, I choose you!

[Harmony Ltd.]

Whatever the truth is, I really doubt her cutie mark has anything to do with playing card games.

[insert motorcycle joke]

Can you remind me how BJ got her cutie mark, again ? I can't remember.

[RoboRed]

I think it happened during a card game in 99 whereupon some poor mare got sliced in half from a malfunctioning door.

[SilentCarto]

Can you remind me how BJ got her cutie mark, again ? I can't remember.

The story is at the beginning of Chapter 15. "Once upon a time, when I was just a filly, my flank was blank, and then one day it wasn’t anymore." That's the extent of BJ's cutie mark story, except for the description of Hatches getting killed. I assume that means, in all the commotion, she didn't notice when it appeared. But the symbolism of the ace of spades suggests a certain class of meanings...

[Harmony Ltd.]

This begs the question :

A cutie mark is, at its root, a graphic symbol. A symbol has only the meaning people see in it. If we go with the hypothesis that the cutie mark when it appears take its imprint from the subconscious of the pony, this mean that the elements that gives the mark its significance need to be present in the mind of said pony.

Put another way, if the symbolism of BJ's cutie mark has something to do with the queen of spades' significance as a "tarot" combination, she must have known, at least subconsciously, said significance prior to obtaining her cutie mark.

I don't know if I'm clear ?

[Luminous Lead]

Well, Blackjack really seems to have the luck of the draw.  It could have been her that went through that door that day, but she got lucky and lived on instead.  In fact, she gets put into so many situations where she should rightly die, except things fall into place at just the time so that she can survive.  Even dying doesn't kill her.  Twice, even!

You see this series of lucky events throughout the story (running into Watcher while being chased by Deus, finding the audio record just before she almost blows her brains out, having a surgeon and life support on hand when she's dying of taint, etc)

She may be the Queen of Misfortune, but her suit's strong enough that she can survive pretty much anything.

[O. Hinds]

@Not using the radio inside enervation: I though it had already been established that the goddess can implant mental commands that persist no matter what, (unless acted on by an outside psychic force...) and that would prevent BJ from doing anything to directly tell anyone because the goddess said not to. Why not just have a couple lines where BJ tries to say something on radio, and then is frustrated when something in her brain makes her say silly stuff instead?

Urrrrrrgh… Okay, so do we need to change it again?  It's still not clear enough? I'm sorry, but given how much work we've already done on it, I'm currently leaning towards "if the readers don't figure it out, it's their problem".

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