Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[O. Hinds]

I remember the filly flashers originally being presented as a group of female rapists, but then Somber turned them into rape victims just banding together... and whose male "victims" were more than happy to help.

...I don't recall them being turned into rape victims just banding together, though I might be wrong. As for their victims enjoying it, the only example I remember of that is Turnips, who is an idiot.

[Caoimhe]

I feel safe saying it's at least a little sexist.

I feel the same way as well, to a point but because it's mostly males writing female characters using a male perspective because most of the show is centered around female characters. I find that if the ratio of male/female was as normal as real life (as well as having more of the patriarchal similarities), the sexual violence in FoE would seem relatively "genera normal." Perhaps along the lines of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.

But again, it's rather difficult to write from the female perspective as a male just like I find it difficult to write male characters without resorting to stereotypes. It's a little easier in FoE because you don't typically see stereotypical girlygirls in a post apocalyptic wasteland and the gender roles are a lot more neutral since basically everyone has to become hardened and jaded or risk dying.

Regardless having strong independent female characters or a neutral landscape doesn't automatically make it less sexist. It's not purposeful, though. FoE ain't the World of Gor.

Yes, I know KKat and everything but her writing style does not seem typically female to me. Woman writers typically have more elaborate detailed descriptions of environments and settings with a distinctive focus on inner character emotions projected towards the environment. While FoE certainly has a lot of this the style doesn't exhibit itself as much. Maybe that's just my background, though. (Back in college we had several assignments of trying to identify the background of an author through their work only knowing nothing about who wrote particular passages).

[Kippershy]

^ and that is why I write a male.
...okay, I lie. I write a male AND a female, but Crimson takes predominance over Cherry whenever possible.

Though for me personally, to (hopefully) counter the whole stereotypical writing issues a male will have writing a female, I've made Cherry into a special operations/forces member so she can take advantage of the whole toughened up to the wasteland but also make it so she doesn't look at the killing and enjoy it, she wishes it wasn't so.
Still, she knows she has to continue or be killed herself, so that's my way to hopefully make it more even.

[CamoBadger]

I feel safe saying it's at least a little sexist.

I feel the same way as well, to a point but because it's mostly males writing female characters using a male perspective because most of the show is centered around female characters. I find that if the ratio of male/female was as normal as real life (as well as having more of the patriarchal similarities), the sexual violence in FoE would seem relatively "genera normal." Perhaps along the lines of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.

But again, it's rather difficult to write from the female perspective as a male just like I find it difficult to write male characters without resorting to stereotypes. It's a little easier in FoE because you don't typically see stereotypical girlygirls in a post apocalyptic wasteland and the gender roles are a lot more neutral since basically everyone has to become hardened and jaded or risk dying.

Regardless having strong independent female characters or a neutral landscape doesn't automatically make it less sexist. It's not purposeful, though. FoE ain't the World of Gor.

Yes, I know KKat and everything but her writing style does not seem typically female to me. Woman writers typically have more elaborate detailed descriptions of environments and settings with a distinctive focus on inner character emotions projected towards the environment. While FoE certainly has a lot of this the style doesn't exhibit itself as much. Maybe that's just my background, though. (Back in college we had several assignments of trying to identify the background of an author through their work only knowing nothing about who wrote particular passages).

I'll agree with that, most writers for FoE fics are males trying to write female perspective, which isn't exactly easy because understanding females is impossible ( ). And yes, there don't seem to be many mares in FoE that are 100% 'girly girl', but the female mindset is still there regardless of what they show outside, so it's difficult to get the emotional process and internal thought right still. But even then, that doesn't really explain why females in FoE seem more successful and 'right' than males are. If I had a dollar for every time Calamity was 'wrong' according to Velvet and Lil'Pip, I would have a much better apartment. (Just a side note on that; with his military background [one that was rather successful from what we were told about him] his plans seem to fail quite a lot, only to be fixed by Lil'Pip...because she is apparently better at that stuff than him).
ANYWAYS, I could put out examples all day, but I don't feel like it right now :P

Also, I had no idea that it was even possible to tell a writer's gender from their style...silly stereotypes being right sometimes.

^ and that is why I write a male.
...okay, I lie. I write a male AND a female, but Crimson takes predominance over Cherry whenever possible.

Though for me personally, to (hopefully) counter the whole stereotypical writing issues a male will have writing a female, I've made Cherry into a special operations/forces member so she can take advantage of the whole toughened up to the wasteland but also make it so she doesn't look at the killing and enjoy it, she wishes it wasn't so.
Still, she knows she has to continue or be killed herself, so that's my way to hopefully make it more even.

Yeeeaaaaah...trying to write Shayle has been...interesting. First off she is still technically a teenager, and for some ungodly reason I decided that would be a good idea because I definitely understand the brains of teenagers, especially teenage girls. And then on top of that, she's got a slight mental issue (which I'm not going to name yet ) which makes it even harder to know if I'm portraying her correctly for who she is.

Also, if it's any good from me, I think you've done a pretty good job showing Cherry's perspective. The way her character is, it makes sense that she isn't exactly feminine, but you do a good job showing that despite all the military mindset and 'living in a boys world', she's still a mare. Just my personal opinion (not that it is correct, after all I'm a guy so I can't really judge it as well).

[Frost]

It, like a great deal of things, is a bit sexist both ways. Men are Burning engines of Lust who must be held at arm's reach lest they rape you. Women are to delicate and fragile to possibly harm someone in such horrible way. Men think of nothing but sex. Women are incapable of defending themselves from rape. The list of implications goes on, but this may just be me looking to deep at it

[Kippershy]

^ and that is why I write a male.
...okay, I lie. I write a male AND a female, but Crimson takes predominance over Cherry whenever possible.

Though for me personally, to (hopefully) counter the whole stereotypical writing issues a male will have writing a female, I've made Cherry into a special operations/forces member so she can take advantage of the whole toughened up to the wasteland but also make it so she doesn't look at the killing and enjoy it, she wishes it wasn't so.
Still, she knows she has to continue or be killed herself, so that's my way to hopefully make it more even.

Yeeeaaaaah...trying to write Shayle has been...interesting. First off she is still technically a teenager, and for some ungodly reason I decided that would be a good idea because I definitely understand the brains of teenagers, especially teenage girls. And then on top of that, she's got a slight mental issue (which I'm not going to name yet ) which makes it even harder to know if I'm portraying her correctly for who she is.

Also, if it's any good from me, I think you've done a pretty good job showing Cherry's perspective. The way her character is, it makes sense that she isn't exactly feminine, but you do a good job showing that despite all the military mindset and 'living in a boys world', she's still a mare. Just my personal opinion (not that it is correct, after all I'm a guy so I can't really judge it as well).

Shayle has either of two mental issues:

-Aspergers syndrome

or

-Medical retardation




Hahahha.
Also, thank you. I'm glad I've done the job well enough to make you think so.
I'm always thinking of what would a woman do, but of course it's always gotta be balanced out with the aspect it's, well, the wasteland. So yeah, even though you're not female you're still someone other than myself and I'm glad I did a good enough job for you.

[CamoBadger]

Shayle has either of two mental issues:

-Aspergers syndrome

or

-Medical retardation

Nope, sorry, try again. She doesn't have the intense interests/obsessions that those with Aspergers typically show.

Medical retardation on the other hand...well I didn't intend it but she certainly seems applicable at times

[Kippershy]

They're both jokes, anyway. (Not in the real world, but my guesses.)

No clue what her condition could be. Has it been hinted at before?

[Kippershy]

Oh, on the matter of female on male forced sexual interaction - in Broken Bonds, I have a prostitute begin to force Crimson into a sexual act using her magic to try convince him that he should go and pay for her services.

[CamoBadger]

They're both jokes, anyway. (Not in the real world, but my guesses.)

No clue what her condition could be. Has it been hinted at before?

It's been a steady thing through the story...but thinking about it now, I doubt that it will actually be ever outright stated in the story itself, since really it was always just supposed to be a little element of her personality...eh, maybe I'll tell a little later on.

And yeah, that is true. I laughed at that scene with Crimson and the hooker, especially since Cherry was awesome XD
So there we go; female on male rape confirmed

[Kippershy]

Chapter 42.
BJ meets a flasher who commiserates about being raped.
"Ploughed hard or beaten, or both. It happens. If they don't want it to happen again, they join the Flashers."

All flashers are rape victims.

"or beaten, or both" leaves gap for some of the members to have not been raped, though they would probably be in the minority given the setting.

[Frost]

Oh, on the matter of female on male forced sexual interaction - in Broken Bonds, I have a prostitute begin to force Crimson into a sexual act using her magic to try convince him that he should go and pay for her services.

I did say "most".

I started reading Broken Bonds, but then SQUIRREL and that was a month ago. I'm going to get back to it once I take care of the thing at the place, I promise

[Kippershy]

It's cool. Whenever / if ever you wanna read it, but don't feel you have to.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

SQuirrel! WHERE!? *Runs in circles trying to catch the squirrel*

[Harmony Ltd.]

A squirrel ? isn't that a mix between a square and a circle ?

[Ketchup]

A squirrel ? isn't that a mix between a square and a circle ?

Maybe, but to find out you need to get the circumference of a moose.

[Valikdu]

TOXIC LOVE!

[Ironmonger]

SQuirrel! WHERE!? *Runs in circles trying to catch the squirrel*

*drops book* 'UIRREL? *picks up bowie knife and chases after squirrel* C'mere ya lil' sonnuvabitch I'ma skin yer little rodent hide I tell you hwhat you little piece a shit!

[Kattlarv]

@String: (fate worse than death) I can think of quite a few things that could be added to that xP

@Swicked: (slender) feels a bit "boring" imo :P

And I didn't say it, I wrote it ;D *monocle*

@Cpt: (fear) The only thing to fear is fear itself... and Batman.
@Harmony: (files) So, is that how you plan to... "file us down"?

@EP: (rape) Soon, soon... just wait, there will be more than enough female rapists and male victims in my Psycho fic. (and vice versa, since I dislike making stuff with only one side "winning" flawlessly)

As for the topic as a whole, I've gone through it enough times. As like I've discussed with quite a few here: The average male seems to be very dumb/thick in the area of female on male rape. Actually literally met males that pictured it as a hot chick would give them oral, then leave once they came... that amount of retardation almost beats the muslim in my old school complaining on his wife having another baby despite him forbidding her to. And when told that he had a part in it, he scoffed, got insulted and said he had nothing to do with it. The fault was entirely hers, she was the one having the baby, not him. What did he have to do with anything? It was a woman's duty to take responsibility so he wouldn't have to. Not only did he sink my faith in the human race and religions, he also was a really bad example for the muslims that actually have a brain.

Anyhow, (Cpt) while the wall of text made quite a bit of sense. Do keep in mind: Equestria was a matriarchy. The fact they'd simply flip the gender norms over on case of "reasons". We have examples, both animal and human of these in our world. As said, my main problem in most FoE fics, is that the females should have some "moral standard" or what to call it, that it somehow is "bellow them" to rape. That they won't sink to that level, but they'd gladly eat a foal alive, but rape, that is crossing the line. Yet, ~95 % of every single male in them are both fully capable and willing to rape as soon as they are even given the slightest chance. And all that stuff. I know you can't play Eon due to it being Swedish, but it has a great example: Momolan I think it was spelled. It's the only majorly know matriarchy in the world. Think basically any "female oppressing religion/culture", swap the gender roles, and you more or less got it. Males are property, they have to cover their face at all time bar from home, they are not allowed to look at other women bar their owner. They are exploited for their bodies and spend a deal of their day making themselves look pretty for their wives. A man cannot speak unless spoken to or given permission. Outsiders of the male gender need to cover their face, and may not speak down to a woman. They have a very odd royalty... but that's beside the current point. All and all, it is more or less one of those extremely sexist countries, bar from women not having a worth, men don't. They're the militia, the cheap labour, all of it. Only women may become knights, own stuff or what have you. If a male spent their entire life working, and like, even saved the queen for an assassin or some shit, they could earn their freedom. (all men are property of the "woman of the family") They could 5 minutes after being officially freed by the queen herself, be captured and made a slave on the sole basis of: He's a man. They have no rights.
->
Now, this is an extreme example, but that is exactly my point... FoE seems to clutch desperately to "one side". Bit like PH, there can either ONLY be male rapists and all males obsessed with sex and willing to rape females. Or there can be done. Same goes for females. And since one had to be picked, it was only male rapists and sluts, and all females simply being "too nice" to be able to rape anyone, since women "know better". And that just sticks out as sexist both ways. Especially when anyone vaguely the opposite is seen as some crime against nature, while anyone following the norms are "just normal" or whatever to term it. What exactly would be so bad with a "balanced" fucked up wasteland? As said, quiet a few times, rape is about proving dominance. And I don't see every single place having a male leader, nor every single female leader going "Oh yeah? Well, let me just run back and get the strongest one with a dick from my side, and they'll fuck you in the ass while I watch! Since I'm not allowed to do anything like it myself, it just wouldn't be very lady-like. Since I have to follow proper moral terms in this one area of all the ones existing, since damn, this one moral choice is something all women just know off and stick to, no matter what! We can totally however endorse any male to do it, since that's totally fine. Now, hand over all your female children to be raped by our males, and we women will kill and eat any male ones." yeah, I overdo it, but really it's not far from it at times...
(we have a matriarchy irl, but it's a tribe on an island, which more or less reversed gender roles. And amusingly enough, it is the tribe it goes best for of them all in that island complex)
And whee! trailed off agian xD Hope I made some sense at all.

(Camo) 1: As said, about every single male in PH given the chance, has leapt at it. In BJ's stable, she almost only met female raiders, since the males were up busy raping. All fillies BJ meet have been raped by males, the colts are killed, since males can't be raped, that would be gross and wrong. She has run into horny and willing males everywhere. And one of the first slaves she saves, is male, wants revenge on his previous captor, concludes she is female and immediately goes for rape as revenge. Easily overpowers her and ties her up for a sex toy, since you know, he's a male. As said, about every single male BJ has come across either is okay with rape, would be willing to rape or wants sex. Enjoying it greatly even. And the majority of females doing it does not enjoy it, and only does it since they are "forced" to and needs to feed their family or some shizz. Again, poking towards the "men are evil" thing.
->
2: It's mainly that people are biased in it... or what it now is called. Again, the "oh, males rape females! got it!" comes from OUR society and social norms, we've been shaped to see it like that by our upbringing and standards. As said, plenty of males get raped by women, they simply don't say anything since it's a "shame", since women are weak and pathetic. And to have been raped by that is just embarrassing. And in FoE, a wasteland formed from a matriarchy, I have really, REALLY hard to see that they would have all of ours, and ONLY our norms, stereotypes and etc. As said, even BJ is way too much of a cock-slut, especially where she's supposedly from. Especially parts like: She only makes cock-jokes (from what I recall at least). She sees males as the "strong gender". She hypes males and the overall sex with them. She even had a ramble over how much she longs for penis as said, and despite supposedly being in love with Glory, she yet has to mention a single thing about females she likes, she even paid more attention to Styg's dick, someone she knew for two days, than she has done to Glory's vulva during all the time she's known her. (the most she's done is look at some asses, but she does that for both genders. And conclude that Glory "taste's mare") but yeah, I've ranted enough about this for this month. And I've already concluded BJ is messed up, especially with how she seemingly treated sex with mares in 99 like a chore/duty, nothing fun or interesting, just something that had to be done till the day of the month she got to pleasure and give a male orgasms, which was the best thing she knew in her life apparently as we've gotten to know of late... and man I trailed off again.
3: Exactly. So why would they only submit to the stereotypes we have? Especially with the whole society they had as said. They have one major difference in it.

(Frost) *Snrk* I am well known for taking things "too deep" xP ... and I just noticed I just made a sexual pun on myself... ah well,I'm not very hung, so it's accurate technically... (that's depth btw in case you derp mentally on what I mean)

(Kipper) Technically, that is only sexual harassment, or whatever it now is called.

And whew... I ought to stop doing these.

[Harmony Ltd.]

@ Katt : Well...

Spoiler:

What to say apart than I agree with you, and that you and OAC explained what I had in mind far better than I could have done.

So, thanks for that.


As for the files...



There is no need for you to worry about such things.

[Harmony Ltd.]

So, I've been offered the following album for christmas :

http://grooveshark.com/playlist/Soundgarden+King+Animal/81527584

I think I'm hooked on it.

[Stringtheory]

http://grooveshark.com/playlist/Soundgarden+King+Animal/81527584

grooveshark, gotta love grooveshark, all that free music in a pick-and-choose format with no interrupting ads

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yeah, I only recently discovered it.


Got burned on "free music streaming" after Deezer, the French leader platform of the stuff went full retard, and now require you to pay a monthly fee just to be able to stream music from the web - if you want to download the music then you have to go to iTune or whatever to pay even more.

Fukken garbage.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

I want this guy on my side for zombies take over

[Harmony Ltd.]

So, what I love from that album is, I think, how organic it sound. It's hard to describe, but I've become a bit jaded of how ubiquitous "electronic" sounds have become in contemporary music : even if I'm a fan of electronic music, sometimes I like to come to less harsh / gritty / industrial sounds. Same way I've become quite numb to Metal after a few years of being in it.


Here, even if it's still electric guitar, electric bass... it feels, I dunno.. warm, enveloping. Less aggressive.


The soundscape feel alive, even on my shitty stereo.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I want this guy on my side for zombies take over

https://www.youtube.com/v/YnBvfVJu8-U

" Well, I don't know you, but I think we can classify this myth as...

CONFIRMED "

[Frost]

@Admiral

Well, performance/trick skills like that don't necessarily translate into a fighting skill. Sure, a trick shooter can hit outrageous shots with a grouping 1/10 the size of a Marine or Soldier's, but I'll take the Marine or Soldier on my side any day of the week, because they're trained to act under pressure and in a combat zone, unlike the trick shooter, for whom a food fight back in middle school was the closest they've ever been to a firefight.

Similarly, if you offer me the chance to go in a no-holds barred street fight against either a championship boxer or an experienced brawler, I'll pick the boxer, who is, by force of habit, going to show restraint and follow rules that the brawler absolutely will not

[Kippershy]

(Kipper) Technically, that is only sexual harassment, or whatever it now is called.

And whew... I ought to stop doing these.

In the fic it's labelled as sexual assault by Cherry (Crimson says he's not seen her so protective of him in some time, she replies that she won't stand for sexual assault of her buckfriend... or anyone, really.)

Still, close enough to still be on the same page, right?

[Kippershy]

I want this guy on my side for zombies take over

-vid-

I want Crimson as my buddy come the time.


edit: forgot to post this:

[Valikdu]

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