Re: [Official!] Project Horizons Comment Crew Chat thread.

[222222]

@Harmony: I knew you didn't mean literally pumped, but the idea is that energy is being removed from the car right? Why when the car needs the energy? Why wouldn't you just turn off the engine? Can you not do that? The second bit I thought seemed much more logical, energizing the car from the grid.

[OneMoreDaySK]

@The Stare
Probably wouldn't work on Discord for one, Celestia and Luna. Needs to try it on a Gorgon, not a cockatrice.

[Harmony Ltd.]

@Harmony: I knew you didn't mean literally pumped, but the idea is that energy is being removed from the car right? Why when the car needs the energy? Why wouldn't you just turn off the engine? Can you not do that? The second bit I thought seemed much more logical, energizing the car from the grid.

When the car is parked, it doesn't need energy. The idea is to use the car as a power-storage unit for the grid.

Cars would have hydrogen tanks big enough to last them hundreds of kilometers, with an autonomy comparable to nowadays cars.

The user would say to its car : "when the tank is under X percent, don't give energy to the grid", or things like that. Basically, it would be on a voluntary basis, and done smart - no one would have the surprise to see its tank emptied by the grid while he was away (unless there was a national emergency or something, that point would be debatable).

If you make cars in such a way that they could also STOCK the surplus of power while plugged on the grid (the water tank idea I gave earlier), you could save a lot on energy storage infrastructure. And people would see their cars refuelled while they're parked. Win-win.

[222222]

@Harmony: so the car would essentially be running its engine and routing the energy into the grid then? If I'm understanding this right, wouldn't it be more efficient to just build a few thousand dedicated hydrogen power plants instead making millions and millions of parking spots hooked into the grid?

[Harmony Ltd.]

@Harmony: so the car would essentially be running its engine and routing the energy into the grid then? If I'm understanding this right, wouldn't be more efficient to just build a few thousand dedicated hydrogen power plants instead making millions and millions of parking spots hooked into the grid?

Well, each building would also have its own individual fuel cell, and there would be some industrial plants.

It's just that the infrastructure used by people to refuel the hydrogen tanks of their cars while they're parked would serve a dual purpose and be integrated into the Grid on a bi-directional basis.

And the Plugs could themselves serve a dual purpose as those things which measure how long you were parked and bill you for the duration - of course adapted to the fact you're helping the community by being parked, your vehicle furnishing power to the grid.


Gotta think differently, and give the same objects a number of different purposes.

[222222]

I would think the cost of building and maintaining millions and millions of these parking spots would far outweigh the benefits. It seems to me a much more efficient use of that money is to build a few thousand dedicated power plants and fueling stations. I'm just try to understand what the appeal of this system would be. It's not like the parked cars are using hydrogen, are they?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Probably. Though it all depend on how you do it and how the system is designed. Because in the end it's just a plug you can plug your fuel cell car or your purely electric car on, made sturdy enough to withstand the elements and most vandalism attempts. All the billing would be done automatically through the internet-of-things.

Was just saying it was one of the ideas considered, not that it was economically viable.

Also, most people would probably end up with one of these things in their own garage.


Sure there would be fueling stations, like there's now with hydrocarbon-powered cars. It's just that with hydrogen-fueled cars you have the possibility to produce your fuel with just electricity and it's expected people will take full advantage of that. So people are also studying ways of integrating that into the Grid.

[222222]

Fair enough I suppose. I was just afraid there was something I was missing is all.

[Harmony Ltd.]

... Is the discussion already over ?

Well, that was quick one.

I guess it's time to launch another subject, then ?

[Kattlarv]

@Harmony: That you said "I'll put this in your file" or somewhere along that lines.

@Cpt: Be afraid, be very afraid :D

@Swicked: Now, now, we all know that's not what Slendarman does. How else could his suit be so clean? He forces them to watch a Jersey Shore marathon or something, with a Justin Beiber playing in the background... and it's late and I'm giving lame concepts xP ... and randomly got reminded of Candlejack

@EP: And sweet Gummy, people are trailing off lately.
Finally saw Brave and the new Batman though.

@OMDSK: Gorgon? Try a beholder xD

[Stringtheory]

He forces them to watch a Jersey Shore marathon or something, with a Justin Beiber playing in the background...

that IS a fate worse then death...

[Meleagridis]

@Swicked: Now, now, we all know that's not what Slendarman does. How else could his suit be so clean? He forces them to watch a Jersey Shore marathon or something, with a Justin Beiber playing in the background... and it's late and I'm giving lame concepts xP ... and randomly got reminded of Candlejack

My headcanon on slenderman is that he does things like this:


...and seriously, don't say Candlejack's name. You don't know what

Say what you like about Candlejack, but I notice he's always nice enough to submit your post when h

[Cptadder]

@Cpt: Be afraid, be very afraid :D

I have walked in the dark places, I fear no such thing.
Besides I'm less than a fifty posts from a dunk myself.

it's late and I'm giving lame concepts xP ... and randomly got reminded of Candlejack

...and seriously, don't say Candlejack's name. You don't know what

Say what you like about Candlejack, but I notice he's always nice enough to submit your post when h

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zTJEeszxLvo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Guest]

I assume we've all already seen this, but just in case some haven't... Honestly, I think this one sorta looks creepier. Probably the clown bits and the painted-on face.

And I like Fluttershy. She's nice, sweet, and good; she may need (a lot of) prodding to overcome her massive social/brain issues, but she's there when it counts. As I've said before, I think she'd make a good friend.

Energy! My dad does some teaching on nuclear storage sites; as far as I can tell from reading over his shoulder, this is a problem because long term storage (which is apparently the time frame you need to think about) is hard.

[Valikdu]

@Swicked: Now, now, we all know that's not what Slendarman does. How else could his suit be so clean? He forces them to watch a Jersey Shore marathon or something, with a Justin Beiber playing in the background... and it's late and I'm giving lame concepts xP ... and randomly got reminded of Candlejack

My headcanon on slenderman is that he does things like this:


...and seriously, don't say Candlejack's name. You don't know what

Say what you like about Candlejack, but I notice he's always nice enough to submit your post when h

I don't know what you're ta--ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

[tylertoon2]

I assume we've all already seen this, but just in case some haven't... Honestly, I think this one sorta looks creepier. Probably the clown bits and the painted-on face.

Doesn't help he jizzes glitter.

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

Look at me I'm a distraction, I'm being distracting!@



how to distract me:

[Ironmonger]

@Gun Pic
RRRRRR! I can't figure out what model that is! I want to say M14, FAL, or SIG-SAUER. *tears hair out* Dammit Admiral!

[Valikdu]

Goooldfingeeeeer

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

im watching this::
http://theanimenetwork.com/Anime/So-I-Can-t-Play-H/Red-String-of-Fate/Watch

[Valikdu]

FUCKING AWESOME

[Cptadder]

Look at me I'm a distraction, I'm being distracting!@

Bad Admiral, no fingers on triggers unless your shooting something.
...Unless you have a indoor target range in your kitchen in which case? That's fucking amazing.

[Harmony Ltd.]

@Harmony: That you said "I'll put this in your file" or somewhere along that lines.

Oh, don't worry.

I just have files on everyone.

Also why they're putting a lot of money on sea-wave power, which is almost always there. Given we have lots and lots of coastal areas at the European scale, that seems like a pretty good plan.

Yes, I can imagine all of these tourist locations, with their hotels and exclusive beaches, being more than happy with having power plants just off their coast...

Well, France and the UK are already building giant offshore wind farms, so I wouldn't have trouble imagining them also putting a number of Power Buoys a few miles of their coasts.

10 miles of the coast, they would be hard to see, and I don't think they would represent much of a navigation hazard when every boat big enough for it to matter are required to have a navigational GPS.

im watching this::
http://theanimenetwork.com/Anime/So-I-Can-t-Play-H/Red-String-of-Fate/Watch

"CONTENT BLOCKED IN YOUR COUNTRY"

FFFFFFFFU-

[Admiral Stoic Rum]

FUCKING AWESOME

heard this song overlay to a porno

Bad Admiral, no fingers on triggers unless your shooting something.
...Unless you have a indoor target range in your kitchen in which case? That's fucking amazing.

Maybe I do... or perhaps its not me in the picture. Also Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to shoot, sir! Had to say this far too much in my past.

"CONTENT BLOCKED IN YOUR COUNTRY"

FFFFFFFFU-

Oh right it is a licensed broadcaster website, try crunchy roll...
lets see

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crunchyroll.com%2Fso-i-cant-play-h&ei=aUHpUL73CeaM2gXwjYCgBw&usg=AFQjCNHi5tUICHDxctKmDBsXM0bomX3zPw&sig2=84MabmRaENIIPuezTK7OLg

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, even with highly integrated smartgrids, I don't think we'll soon see the entirety of our power generation being TOTALLY de-centralized. There's always going to be power stations, if only to provide one-of spike of powers that weren't scheduled. Sudden black-outs are bad for business.

In practice, I suppose what will happen is what is already happening with the offshore wind-farms, with the power cables laid on the seabed the same way we lay Intercontinental Fiber-Optic Cables. Considering that kind of power cables have been laid between the UK and France, with France selling a respectable amount of gigawatt-hour of electricity annually to the UK through them, I'd say the technology is mature.

Offshore wind-farms is a sector knowing a real economic expansion right now, so I guess it's not only economically viable, but it's also expected to bring in some nifty profits.

I mean, you couldn't even have it come right back and plug into the grid... you'd need it to go to a distribution center. Unless this required a highly integrated smartgrid with distribution stations all up and down the coast, as it is.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Could you develop your thought, please ?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Edit: actually, if this kicked in around the time your hydrogen cell technology was, it might work. You'd have ships (electric ones, I guess) trolling the coast, pulling up to these buoys and collecting fuel cells. No need for distribution or powerline waste, they'd just pull all these back to the coast as if they were power fishermen.

You just gave me a glorious idea for a near future science-fiction setting.

Deadliest Catch, power-fishers edition.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, even with highly integrated smartgrids, I don't think we'll soon see the entirety of our power generation being TOTALLY de-centralized. There's always going to be power stations, if only to provide one-of spike of powers that weren't scheduled. Sudden black-outs are bad for business.

So to answer your question, yeah, they will probably be plugged into transformers stations regularly deployed along the coasts.

You talk about it being costly, but you have to factor in that the only thing you have to pay for with such systems, AFAIK, is maintenance. You don't have fuel expenses, or things like that. So even if it's high maintenance it might still be more economical than "traditional" power plants, like coal, oil, gas or fission.

Also, hydro-dams are really high investment and high maintenance, all things considered, and it doesn't stop them from being considered economical, so I guess this gives you a benchmark to compare, here.

[Frost]

Looks to me like an M1A.

[Ironmonger]

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

(informations regarding the UK-France power cable : link)


You don't need to bury the cables. You just lay them down on the seabed. And if you need to bury them, the procedure is fairly trivial nowadays.


I don't know how much energy they would produce (probably something like 50-300 MW per farm ?), but I know it would be much closer to a base load than wind or solar, as they only need the sea to be even just slightly agitated (which it almost always is) in order to function.

What I know is that you wouldn't need to go "deep down" on the sea floor in order to lay the cables, as a few miles from the coasts of Europe AFAIK the sea rarely get deeper than 60-150 meters (in the Channel, the water is 50m deep). That's the Continental Shelf.


But anyway, yeah, you shouldn't use that as your main power source. In fact, no renewable power source alone should be used as a main power source.

As I said already, the secret to a successful use of renewable is to mix different kind of power sources.

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