Re: Royal Equestrian Armored Division

[RoboRed]

Fate seems absolutely determined to keep me from getting wins in my super pershing...

[Vergil]

Fate was determined to keep me from getting wins in anything yesterday

[RoboRed]

How many straight losses?

[Fuzzy]

Specific details:

Update 16/5/13

A leak has given the preliminary changes to the game, for the British
its mostly silver credits price changes. However some things are
changing, here's al sit of the non-cash changes:
-Universal Carrier 2Pdr: Suspension has a visual change.
-Tortoise has its penetration lowered by 10 for normal and 26 for gold shells.
-Black Prince hit points increased by 80. Turret module has a similar hit point reduction. So in effect it recieves no HP increase.
-Conqueror has its penetration lowered by 10 for normal and 26 for gold shells.
-FV215b HT has its penetration lowered by 10 for normal and 26 for gold shell



Yeah screw you, WG.

[RoboRed]

Fuzzy, stop making me depressed.

[Vergil]

How many straight losses?

Only 4, but it was 4 repeatedly. Lose 4, win 1, lose the next four.

I'm accustomed to having tanks that are generally "auto-win", and when they don't work I tend to get a little irritated. Fortunately for my apartment building I've had no voice with which to make my displeasure known for three days.

[RoboRed]

18 straight losses before I finally got a win last night.

Fate hates me.

[Vergil]

18 straight losses before I finally got a win last night.

Fate hates me.

Going to be around tonight/this weekend? I might be able to help fix that.

[RoboRed]

Yeah, I'll be on later tonight.

[hawkeye92]

Specific details:

Update 16/5/13

A leak has given the preliminary changes to the game, for the British
its mostly silver credits price changes. However some things are
changing, here's al sit of the non-cash changes:
-Universal Carrier 2Pdr: Suspension has a visual change.
-Tortoise has its penetration lowered by 10 for normal and 26 for gold shells.
-Black Prince hit points increased by 80. Turret module has a similar hit point reduction. So in effect it recieves no HP increase.
-Conqueror has its penetration lowered by 10 for normal and 26 for gold shells.
-FV215b HT has its penetration lowered by 10 for normal and 26 for gold shell



Yeah screw you, WG.

Have they changed the medium tank guns? Because that's literally the only thing they have going for them. The top tier gun nerfs are in line with the others (if they nerf the German guns I'll laugh, they're already shocking for their tier). The Tortoise and Conqueror are pretty much impregnable from the front from a distance at least. On the other hand, having to stand off means any loss of pen will hurt them doubly.
Also the Tortoise has a lot less armour than it did irl- it would be almost indestructible if its actual armour was used.

[Fuzzy]

Have they changed the medium tank guns? Because that's literally the only thing they have going for them. The top tier gun nerfs are in line with the others (if they nerf the German guns I'll laugh, they're already shocking for their tier). The Tortoise and Conqueror are pretty much impregnable from the front from a distance at least. On the other hand, having to stand off means any loss of pen will hurt them doubly.
Also the Tortoise has a lot less armour than it did irl- it would be almost indestructible if its actual armour was used.

The L7 has not changed, no. Thank goodness for that. Although now we have the awkward situation in that the L7 has a higher penetration than the L1A1. Given the L1A1 was invented because they needed to pen bigger things than the L7 could manage...this is most perplexing.

Absolutely right on the Tortoise as well. They've had to do so much to make it even vaguely playable. It's a tier 9 tank, but remember it's a design from 1945. Up against the likes of Leopard 1's, Conqueror's, T-62's, M48 Pattons and AMX-50's. Says something for how absurdly armoured the Tortoise was for its time. Nothing the Germans had even stood a chance short of a direct air strike on it. (Which was impossible, given they had basically no air force by that point)

Of course, the real life one only (Hah...'only') had the 32-Pounder gun, which was a lot more powerful than the game likes to claim it is. But it certainly never got an L1A1 120mm. That gun came over 10 years after the Tortoise was around. It's justified though, 32-Pounder slots could mount one in theory and to balance it's insane armour they would have to bump it up a few tiers and upgrade the outdated gun.

I genuinelly wonder what the other designs were though. There were AT designs all the way from 1 to 16 (16 being the Tortoise) and we've only seen the AT-2, AT-8, AT-7 and AT-15. There's still 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 to go and the blueprints I believe do exist. I'm really tempted to ask Bovington if I could take a look when I go down...

But simply put, there's a whole other tree potentially there.

[Fuzzy]

Updates:

- British arty will come in one of the following patches after 0.8.6

Sounds like "8.7 if it's done, 8.8 if not" to me.

- the decision not to make an arty hardcap was taken because of the reluctance to introduce any hardcaps in general

I can understand that there are limits, but games with five tier 7 arties in them that can one shot almost anyone? Seriously?

- Storm will announce the artillery accuracy changes on monday

Sorry, we already know them. ;)

- according to SerB, the KV-1S with 152mm howitzer is not historical,
the pictures of KV-1S with a howitzer most likely show the version with a
122mm gun

So they are basing that troll gun on nothing but a fuzzy picture?

- Although Leopard 1 is technically a MBT, it's very specific - other MBTs such as T-72 won't be introduced

Given it entered service in 1970, I'd hope not! Although it doesn't bode well for the Chieftain, given it ate T-72's alive as though they were T-34's.

- 0.8.6 will come roughly in 3-4 weeks from now

Can't come soon enough for that derp nerf!

- Q: "Why is Jagdtiger not able to shoot enemies on 1 km distance as in real life?" A: "Want realism? Join the army."

Want games biased toward brawlers? Play WoT.

- there will be other Sherman modifications (models) introduced into the game

Yes, it's called the Firefly and it's very very late.

[Valikdu]

- according to SerB, the KV-1S with 152mm howitzer is not historical,
the pictures of KV-1S with a howitzer most likely show the version with a
122mm gun

So they are basing that troll gun on nothing but a fuzzy picture?

Wait, who said that they're giving a 152mm gun to the KV-1S? Or someone thought they're doing that? What's going on?

Given it entered service in 1970, I'd hope not! Although it doesn't bode well for the Chieftain, given it ate T-72's alive as though they were T-34's.

...Do I need to remind you that Iraq had the export T-72Ms with downgraded armor, downgraded equipment, low-grade ammunition and no ATGMs (not to mention that they were used ineptly)? And some were even worse due to the lack of essential parts?

[RoboRed]

Oh, the lulz:

Spoiler:

[Fuzzy]

Wait, who said that they're giving a 152mm gun to the KV-1S? Or someone thought they're doing that? What's going on?

Some Russian players tried to sneak past a rumour of a 152mm derp gun historical to the KV-1S. They were full of rubbish.

Not that the 122mm gun is any more historical.

...Do I need to remind you that Iraq had the export T-72Ms with downgraded armor, downgraded equipment, low-grade ammunition and no ATGMs (not to mention that they were used ineptly)? And some were even worse due to the lack of essential parts?

And the Gulf War is relevant to the Chieftain...how? O.o

The Gulf War was fought in 1991, eight years after the Chieftain had ceased to be in expeditionary service by replacement of the Challenger 1 MBT platform. (It wa sstill serving in reserve duties until 1995) Iraq's T-72M1 varients were locally produced Lion of Babylon tanks that had many design flaws most predominently in the ammunition area of their vehicles and in lacking night fighting or smog fighting capabilities. Elsewise, they were actually upgraded over the T-72 in terms of armour, featuring added lamination armour of either heavy spaced steel or in lower budget cases, angled aluminium. (Which explains the strange shapes you see on them and is partly why there is so much indistinction over what certain vehicles were really engaging in the field. This led to the assumption that they were using more advanced tanks until a few months afterwards) It was this supposed heavier armour that led to the British going into battle with Jericho rounds ready should they encounter a Lion with the heavier armour kit. So in essence, they had slightly better armour than Russia's T-72 model line at the time and superior desert traverse ability but lacked the crucial two things that let the Western forces dominate. Vision and range.

But all of that is just me nitpicking really on the precise nature of the Lion of Babylon.

To get back to the Chieftain, it was in service from 1962 until 1983 in the British Army. During that time it was, hands down, the most advanced tank on the entire planet until 1979 when the Leopard 2 came into service. During that time, Russia invented two tanks in response to the Chieftain because it frankly scared the Soviet Union's pants offwith what it could do. The first of these tanks was the T-72. They wanted a more advanced tank that could take one on head to head and win. It had been in concept works for long before Russia really knew anything about the Chieftain other than "it's a big tank with a big gun" and when they were so far into T-72 procurement that they couldn't turn back, Britain set the Chieftain into the export market, thus releasing many of its true specs into the public knowledge.

Russia (and most of the planet) collectively passed bricks.

The T-72 had some advantages they thought would swing it. Predominently it had the beginnings of some composite armour. However this was simply a small layer, not a true composite hull like would come later with Chobham. They had thought this would give it an armour advantage enough to resist the main gun of the Chieftain. Upon seeing the readings on the L11A5 gun, they realised they weren't even close to achieving this. Unfortunately, the tank was far too much into production by that point to really turn back. Masses of countries wanted it and for all of this it was still a pretty good tank. It'd give M60 Pattons and AMX-30's a hard time (which were its real meat it would be facing anyway). So Russia was fairly happy. But they still didn't like this big nasty monster rolling around from the UK that could obliterate their new tank they were relying on the sales of to fund their war economy.

Enter the T-80. The tank designed specifically to hunt the Chieftain.

In essence, they decided to just go "screw this" when it came to armour and wanted to get some seriously fast flankers to go swarming around the much slower Chieftain tanks (which traversed notoriously slowly on anything but roads) and overwhelming their smaller numbers. This was where the turbine engine came in for the T-80. One for one, a Chieftain still wrecked them. But with the numbers the Soviet Union had, the T-80 proved a huge success on a strategic level to just overpower the "Chieftain Line" just behind Berlin. Unfortunately, this advantage only lasted a few years until the Leopard 2, M1 Abrams and Challenger tank came into being, but that's another story entirely.

In essence, the T-72 was considered frightfully underpowered to take on a Chieftain at the time, hence why the T-80 was developed the way it was. if WG thinks the T-72 is far too good to go in...then the Chieftain has absolutely no chance of making an appearance. To be honest, I'd almost prefer it next to seeing what WG would do to the legend that is the Chief.


RoboRed - I love those videos, WG has a real knack for slick editing when it comes to their tanks, I cannot deny them that! Love the 'one tread' dodge near the end. That's just epic.

[RoboRed]

Hell of a retard brigade on tonight, I tell you what.

On the plus side, I managed one hell of a win while working on my AT2's crew before I send them off to the AT8. Wish my x2 hadn't gone on the match before it...

Spoiler:

[Ketchup]

So, right now, we've got a special until the 29th for 30% credit increase on the M103, T110E5, and T32. This means I can make about 10k per game in the M103.
For the rest of the month.
Yay.
Also, just elited my Cromwell, crew secondary skills are at about 20-30 percent from 2x crew XP weekend.

[Ketchup]

The Germans really like showing off with their Leopard 2s.

:

[Fuzzy]

And rightly so, Leopard 2 is a wonderful platform! That andit's still commercially available, so it's within their interests to make it look fancy. Not that such a beautiful tank needs any real help in doing so. :p

Awesome game, Robo. The AT-2 (and indeed the whole AT series) really feels like an all or nothing branch. You either fail horrible or you dominate a game. Very satisfying when it happens!

[Fuzzy]

Apologies for the double post but oh my, this is BIG news!

Changes to gun accuracy

In our opinion this is one of the most significant changes that we are bringing to the game since 0.8.0!

For those who might be interested, here is the statistical theory behind
the mechanic. In game, we currently use the normal (Gauss (https://en.wikipedia...al_distribution))
distribution to calculate the values for shot dispersion. However, a
limit for shot distribution has to exist, so all extreme values are
restricted to the edge of the aiming circle. In simple words, the limits
for the most inaccurate gun would still be the limits of the aiming
circle.

Currently, in Version 8.5, we have 1.3 sigma set as a limit. This means
that approximately 19.4% of shots will land at the edge of the aiming
circle.

There were good reasons which this limit was chosen back in 2010, but
the game has developed since then and we are ready to move on.

For Version 8.6, we have decided to change the distribution model used
for accuracy calculations, by increasing the limit to 2-sigma. This
means that now only 4.6% of shots will land at the edge of the aiming
circle. That’s nearly 4 times less than under the old model!

We have also decided that the spike on the edge of distribution is no
longer required, so the landing points for shells will be distributed
equally from the center to the edge of the aiming circle. This means
that overall there will be much fewer shots landing directly on the
limit of the aiming circle. In other words, the shots will be more
evenly distributed throughout the aiming circle.

How will it affect the gameplay?

It means that the accuracy of all guns will
greatly increase. Players will notice much fewer shells falling on the
edge of aiming circle – in fact such shots will become incredibly rare. We are decreasing the influence of random factors in-game, which means a corresponding increase in the value of player skill.
These changes will apply to all tanks and tank destroyers in the game.

I do not like this. It's taking away the only thing that Germans and British had to make them feel unique. Now the Russian derpguns with their supposedly "weak" accuracy will be massively more accurate and nations that were hurt by "low" accuracy before (again, Russians) will be brought in line.

Yes, it makes 17-20 pounders more accurate too from a problem they had, but you still can't snipe anyway as the view range is still too low. This is a buff for Russians alone.

But then there's this.

New mechanics for HEAT shells:
Currently the way the mechanics work means that the effect of HEAT
shells is barely different to normal Armour-Piercing shells. To increase
the difference between them, and also to decrease the influence of HEAT
shells on gameplay, we have decided to change their mechanics in
Version 0.8.6 to make them more realistic:
• HEAT shells will start to ricochet if the impact angle is greater than
80 degrees. (please note that every shell can have slightly different
settings). The armour penetration after ricochet will remain the same.
• After penetration, a HEAT shell cannot ricochet inside the tank (as the shell is transformed into a continuous stream.)
• After penetration, the HEAT shell will lose 5% of armour penetration force for each 10cm of travelling distance
• After penetration, the force with which the HEAT shell continues to
travel through the armour will take into account the angle of impact
between the armour and penetration spot
Overall, these changes mean that HEAT shells will now have ricochets
instead of penetrations with 0 damage and less armour penetration values
when it meets spaced armor (Maus drivers will love this change).
Note: The tracks of a vehicle will also count as spaced armour for HEAT shells.

New mechanics for camouflage:
Currently, camouflage patterns and camouflage net values work as
multipliers in the overall camouflage calculation formula. So if the
base camouflage values for a particular tank are low, the provided
advantage from the both devices will also be close to zero.
We have decided to change this. From now on, the values for vehicles and
camo devices will be cumulative. This means that now the camouflage
net and camouflage pattern will provide fixed bonuses which will only
differ based on the class of the vehicle (for example, TD's will receive
the highest bonus).
To avoid side-effects with having nearly invisible TD's, it was decided
to decrease the overall camouflage bonuses provided by bushes and fallen
trees.

Changes to amount of credits and experience points received for battles:
Currently TDs and SPGs receive penalties on the amount of experience
points they receive per battle - TDs currently receive 33% less XP,
while SPGs receive 50% less than regular tanks.
In Version 0.8.6, we will remove these penalties. This means that TDs and SPGs will receive much more XP per battle
We will also add an assistance bonus for keeping enemies tracked. If you
track an enemy and your allies then damage it or even destroy it, you
will receive a bonus in credits and XP. The mechanics will be similar to
the way the bonus for spotting currently works.

Simply put, TD's get WAY more EXP now. EPIC AMOUNTS OF YES!

Also, more premium ammo nerfing is just what the doctor ordered, especially for HEAT.

[RoboRed]

This is best news. Well, minus the derp factor for the Russians...

I love my AT2. Despite its slowness and degree of reliance on teammates, it is a very fun tank.

I'll be sad to see it go when I move on. I haven't exactly heard great things about the AT8...

[RoboRed]

(double post because I am currently on phone and am too lazy to edit)
A friend of mine is repaying me sometime today for buying him a super p during the sale. I'm thinking of spending the gold on an AT-15A. Opinions?

[Fuzzy]

I'll be sad to see it go when I move on. I haven't exactly heard great things about the AT8...

AT-8...eerrrgggh. It's not good.

Its first two guns are useless jokes. 91 penetration at tier 6 is laughable. Its third gun is barely capable. Its fourth gun is the only good thing about the tank (and a nice hint of how good the Firefly can be, given it's the same gun at the same tier as it'll be). If you get in a turkey shoot situation the AT-8 will show its value and absolutely slaughter them.

However, its armour isn't very good at all, it's even slower than the AT-2 and its gun traverse is the lowest in the entire game. Yes, even lower than the ARL TD. You get less than 15 degrees with almost zero depression. So given you need DPM to do damage, enemies need to be standing still in front of you. If they are moving at all, you're screwed because you can't aim and turn. That and it's very very vulnerable to arty...and they know it.

(double post because I am currently on phone and am too lazy to edit)
A friend of mine is repaying me sometime today for buying him a super p during the sale. I'm thinking of spending the gold on an AT-15A. Opinions?

I wouldn't recommend it. You can get the AT-15 at tier 8 anyway and the AT-15A has a 17 pounder gun that isn't exactly steller at tier 7. (From anything that can't flank or move anyway) Its armour for the tier is supposedly very good but I just don't see enough unique about the AT-15A to really recommend it, given you can get an upgraded form of the same tank for free (Read - Credits) one tier later.

However, it does have great armour for its tier. Very good armour even. So if you want a training tank, it fulfills that purpose nicely. Just don't expect to do much damage. The 17 Pounder is a decent gun, but falls off around tier 7 in tanks other than more mobile ones. The Black Prince can make it work though and the AT-15A does have a VERY large traverse. So maybe it does have something. Up to you, man. You could wait for a test server in roughly a months time for 8.6 and give it a shot.

[Ketchup]

And rightly so, Leopard 2 is a wonderful platform! That andit's still commercially available, so it's within their interests to make it look fancy. Not that such a beautiful tank needs any real help in doing so. :p

I'd agree. Canada used Leopard C2s(heavily up-armoured Leopard 1s, notably lacking air conditioning) along with Leopard 2-A4s and -A6s, both with slight armour and ergonomic modification, in Afghanistan. Both were effective in combat.

@Updates: I might finally elite the M12, not that I intend on advancing to T7 artillery. I've had it for a long time.

The shell dispersion likes to screw around with me when I use the M103, and only with that tank: if there's a hill or anything in the foreground it can possibly hit, it'll seek it out.

[Vergil]

I celebrated the FTR post by going to the Preakness yesterday and drinking until about 1am this morning.

I have a headache.

[RoboRed]

Guess you won't be up for some rounds tonight, then?
Nvm. People are too mind-numbingly stupid tonight. I quit. Gonna play some GW2 instead.

[Fuzzy]

More news: even though SU-26 will lose its 122mm, the XP spent for it won't be reimbursed to players I don't remember, did we ever get reimbursed for the Panzer IV before WG took away the stuff we'd earned and then demanded we pay money to get it back? (Never forgiving them for that.) for now, Leopard prototype B will not be implemented into the game (as a premium vehicle), there isn't enough info on it for now Another Leopard prototype? I hadn't heard anything of it. Cool though, Leo's a sweet tank. - even if the 0.8.6 patch doesn't solve the arty flood issue, stricter arty hardcap won't be implemented Way to miss the point, WG. - new village based map in 8.6 Cool. But when are they going to remove El Halluf (It cannot be fixed) or fix Pearl River to not be a laggy nightmare? Why can I not get all that to separate out? It just keeps going into one paragraph.

[Fuzzy]

I don't understand this posting weirdness, it keeps throwing everything I post into one long paragraph.

[Vergil]

Guess you won't be up for some rounds tonight, then?
Nvm. People are too mind-numbingly stupid tonight. I quit. Gonna play some GW2 instead.

I actually haven't played since we talked in-game last. It isn't so much a "don't want to play" thing as a "Crusader Kings II sucked me in yesterday" thing.

[Fuzzy]

WG has now confirmed how to get the Object 906, Failowe and the M60.

You have to be a member of the Clan that wins a global Clan Wars tournament held only every so often and comes out number one of the entire world.

That is the only way.

If I was a swearing person, I'd be telling them to 'something' off right now.

Put your obscure Russian prototypes and German failtanks as reward tanks and I won't care, WG. But don't put iconic historical tanks in there just because you don't understand how other nations feel.

Also news, it seems that most interesting news really is just British based lately, I'm honestly not trying to only grab that!

- Birch gun will be tier 4 and will have a rotary turret with 360 degree rotation
- the best gun for the Birch gun will be a tier 4 87mm gun

So they're mounting a 25 Pounder on a vehicle from long before the 25 Pounder existed? Okay...I'm just confused about it being Tier 4. It was the world's first practical SPG, what on earth could come before it aside from a Gun Carrier Mk1? That Llyod Carrier might be the tier 2 on account of simply being tiny...maybe. Kinda works, I guess. But then you've got a WW2 vehicle (Sexton) coming before a WW1-era vehicle. How weird.

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