Re: [GRIMDARK] Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons Discussion

[Nightfire]

Haven't even read one sentence of FoE, since i don't like Reading lots :P

[Ketchup]

Haven't even read one sentence of FoE, since i don't like Reading lots :P

You could just listen to some of it. I prefer to read it, mostly for the memory of reading it the first time.

[Nightfire]

Haven't even read one sentence of FoE, since i don't like Reading lots :P

You could just listen to some of it. I prefer to read it, mostly for the memory of reading it the first time.

Only time i can really read large stories is if paper is right there in front of me with story. Not a big fan reading online, mostly for back problems, glasses, and SOOO BORING

[Cptadder]

Lo guys, wanna hear some fridge logic of mine?
I'm writing my own origin of nightmare moon, the elements, etc. story (its taking me a long time due to my lack of affinity for writing) and I just realized something.

The summer sun celebration is one of the biggest Equestrian holidays, celebrating Celestia and the summer solstice.

The winter solstice, more considered a time of scarcity before deep winter sets in, was replaced IRL with Christmas, whose parallel is Hearts Warming Eve.

Meaning the counterpart to Celestia's holiday is one in which they celebrate the time before the princesses.

The winter solstice celebration is strikes me as a Thanksgiving type holiday given the kingdom wide pageantry and celebrations. After all it gives off strong Thanksgiving vibes, there are plays, the giving of thanks for the triumph over adversity even the story of how the people left their old homes (Britain) to find a new awesome home (America) and it did not go so well at first until they cooperated with the other people in the land.

But as a biologist might tell you Hearth's Warming Eve is a rare event because the typical reaction when three related species who occupy the same environmental nitch meet up the traditional response is not peaceful symbiosis but instead all out genocide as our evolutionary history is littered with examples of closely related species being breed and killed out of existence by a more aggressive expansionist species.

But that's all beside the point because the other way to look at Hearth's Warming Eve is as a Exodus style story because the name itself Hearth's Warming Eve implies the holiday cerebrates the Winter Solstice when the days start getting warmer again which is a funny thing itself since Celestia and the Pegasus have fiat control over the weather.

[WovenTales]

So I'm finally caught up and looking at the forum at the same time we turn to a topic where I'm able to contribute! I'm not quite sure when that last happened, but it was a while ago.

@Somber
Congratulations! I wonder if any of your students will know your work. Either way, good luck! And if they get difficult, remember that at least you don't have ninth graders. Anyway, don't worry about any schedule slip with Project Horizons. Your job and main source of income is now in Fallon, not Fallout. We'll still be here whenever you get enough time free to write, even if it becomes necessary to put it off until school ends (though that would hopefully be the worst-case scenario). Your well-being comes before our diversion.

@swicked
I wonder what historic Equestrian holidays have been lost, and how many more remain unbroadcast (and how many of those are not based on human holidays)? I can imagine Nightmare Night developing from something more like the Summer Sun Celebration after Luna's rebellion/betrayal, but it would make more sense for it to lie closer to Hearth's Warming Eve. Perhaps that was rooted in pre-princess culture and was already established when they arrived, so Luna's celebration was instead set at some other time (presumably not by her, though I might see her pushing to rechedule it if someone else was going to start it anyway)? If so, the question of why that particular time was chosen remains. It is obviously around harvest time, but is there anything beyond analogy placing it at the end of October? Otherwise we might be able to consider it to be around the equinox, though one celebration taking place at the longest day while the other is at the mid-way point doesn't seem too balanced. Well, more fuel for the "They don't care for me" troubles later on (even if she did choose the date)!

Anyway, holiday and event headcanons are fun—they seem to be so much more detailed than other types (between "Fluttershy and Big Mac get together" and a detailed description of the history and details of a smaller event, I'm more curious about the latter); I myself have worked out a set of traditions not obviously dependent on anything of ours for Hearts and Hooves Day, solely based on the name. And I'd be interested in reading that story once you finish it. Nightmare Moon's beginnings seem to be one of the more varied events, and it's interesting to see how different people imagine it.

@Cptadder EDIT: and swicked
I personally wonder how much control the princesses actually exert over the skies. Nightmare Moon demonstrated that they obviously have the power to do so, but the Hearth's Warming Eve pageant and Fallout Equestria show that they aren't a necessary part of the workings. They do likely standardize their movements (didn't someone in an Fo:E fic express surprise that the sun and moon were visible at the same time?), but it seems more likely to me that the position is more ceremonial than functional, nudging their movements rather than directly controlling them. Of course, that would present the problem of why, exactly, they claim that they do (on that topic, does anyone remember any direct statement of their level of control, or is the possibility of superstition open?) Removing Discord from power could provide a way to the throne, but it wouldn't explain the attribution of celestial powers. Perhaps that was part of the cleanup?

As a side note, I'm curious now about whether the planet of Equestria is flat or spherical; namely whether endless nights over the country result in endless days elsewhere and similar phenomena. We probably won't get in-show conformation either way until we get an ocean/beach episode and ships on a clear day, unless anyone knows of other ways to figure that out. Of course, the globes do provide pretty convincing evidence for a sphere. So what might those on the other side of the world think of the sun and moon changing their patterns for seemingly no reason?

[Cptadder]

I dunno if Celestia has any weather control. Luna can make clouds and storms from nothing, but that's all we've seen.

Celestia and Luna control orbital bodies, they can control the weather including Luna being able to strength or weaken things like Hurricanes at will by moon moving and Celestia can do likewise via sun moving but of course controlling the weather by moving the moon and the sun is like mowing the lawn with 155mm artillery. Sure theoretically you could mow the grass by air bursting shells at just the right height to cut the grass but not crater the lawn but.... You help you if you move the moon or sun a touch to much.

[222222]

So O. Hinds I was making your fallout char when I realized I didn't know what weapons and armor you wanted, or what your char should look like, I only have that picture of your stats. I tried to PM you, but it wouldn't let me. So would you like anything special in the weapons/armor/looks departments? I'm using New Vegas if that matters.

[O. Hinds]

So O. Hinds I was making your fallout char when I realized I didn't know what weapons and armor you wanted, or what your char should look like, I only have that picture of your stats. I tried to PM you, but it wouldn't let me. So would you like anything special in the weapons/armor/looks departments? I'm using New Vegas if that matters.

Looks I'm not sure about. Maybe look back at the Sims stuff? As for weapons, I wouldn't mind a fully-modded laser rifle and an MF Hyperbreeder Alpha. Armor... maybe factionless T-51b?

[Cptadder]

That seems less like controlling weather and more like controlling general habitability.

With a powerful enough computer or just a big ol brain and a good eye for estimations one could move the sun around to cause or stop rainstorms, after all if you slow the sun rise down by 5% that means it's spending 5% more time somewhere else like over a sea for example so more moisture in the air more rain. There are a hundred and one tricks you can pull when you have physical control over things like orbits but there is a big old "warning unintended consequences" tag I have to append because modifying the weather like this does not last for days but it messes with the weather cycle for months afterwords assuming your only doing a single day of modification.

To put it another another way, Twilight demonstrates her magical laser in part two of the season 2 finale, Therefor she can use that laser to go into the hair cutting business, now sure using lasers to cut hair is a little extreme compared to just a pair of scissors but I'm sure her customers won't mind getting mane cuts from a disintegration ray just like I'm sure the ponies of Equestra won't mind Celestia moving the sun a million miles closer to the planet to ensure she has a bright sunny day for her beach outing.

In other words, yes one could heat a room with a flamethrower in winter, but I'd not recommend it.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I dunno if Celestia has any weather control. Luna can make clouds and storms from nothing, but that's all we've seen.

Celestia and Luna control orbital bodies, they can control the weather including Luna being able to strength or weaken things like Hurricanes at will by moon moving and Celestia can do likewise via sun moving but of course controlling the weather by moving the moon and the sun is like mowing the lawn with 155mm artillery. Sure theoretically you could mow the grass by air bursting shells at just the right height to cut the grass but not crater the lawn but.... You help you if you move the moon or sun a touch to much.

Celestia and Luna are Alicorns - they have horns AND wings : in all logic, if they have Unicorn powers, they also have Pegasus powers.

And given their unicorn powers seems to be quite... powerful indeed, it seems only logical to believe then that their pegasus side has a power level to match.

Thus explaining Luna's ability to summon a storm at will, and suggesting Celestia's ability to do as such.

[IncoherentOrange]

Up to chapter nine of FoE. I find that Littlepip's abilities kind of grow too rapidly for my taste, despite the otherwise pretty good pacing of the story, while the ability of her companions, specifically Calamity, don't really change. Though this could be justified in the fact that Littlepip actually does level up and also has S.A.T.S., and perhaps Calamity is a far higher level, with VR somewhere in there. Anyway, it's proven to be a solid story so far, not much to complain about other than Littlepip's sudden aptitude with weaponry despite being just an apprentice Pip-Buck tech.

[Cptadder]

. Anyway, it's proven to be a solid story so far, not much to complain about other than Littlepip's sudden aptitude with weaponry despite being just an apprentice Pip-Buck tech.

Guns are easy to use, even easier when you can hold and fire them telekineticly even if I'm sure aiming is a bitch. I can with four hundred rounds train anyone to be a qualified marksmen able to hit twenty five targets out of forty at ranges from 25 meters to 300 meters in just a single afternoon assuming a competent person who won't freak out when they miss a few and choke. Otherwise I need a week to hit twenty five out of forty. I'd want a month to train up a expert which is 37+ out of forty.

Of course Littlepip is self taught not even half ass amateur taught by me, but she does have SATS which she relies totally on for the first part of the story which is a big factor. It's a bloody magical targeting spell after all.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Twilight may be able to learn almost any spell as stated in Boast Busters, but magic isn't Celestia or Luna's special talents. I don't know what the limits of their magic has but I don't see them as capable of learning every spell, and the nature of their cutie marks makes me think what spells and abilities they have would compliment each other, not be identical.

My point is, weather manipulation isn't a unicorn spell, but pegasus magic. It isn't a spell you have to learn but an innate ability that is shared by every pegasi, which AFAIK need only to be trained to reach its full potential.

So if Alicorns have access to both Unicorn and Pegasus magic, then both of the princesses should be able to manipulate the weather.

[SilentCarto]

We could all share headcanon ends for her, though. Or make that the next writing contest...

DeviantArt link

"Give it up, Dash!"

The griffon's high-caliber pistols barked again and two more lines of pain tore through Rainbow Dash's hip and wing. The armor took the brunt of the hit, but it couldn't quite stop those armor-piercing rounds. At least Gilda didn't dare use magical energy weapons, not if she needed a head to bring back.

"You're slowing down. Did you really think you could lose me by ducking through Canterlot?" She darted close, firing another pair of shots, but Rainbow Dash threw herself into a desperate roll and the bullets skipped off the flanchard of her enchanted armor. Thanks, Rarity, she thought. It wasn't even the dozenth time the armor had saved her life today alone. As she rolled she blasted brilliant energy bolts into the space where the griffon had been. Too slow. Her last healing potion had been hours ago.

"I had stuff to do, G!" she shouted. "Nothin' to do with you!" Rainbow Dash scambled at her makeshift duct-tape bandolier to pull out an energy grenade, one of a half-dozen she scavenged from the ammo magazine of an Ultra-Sentinel back in the Canterlot Hub.

Each grenade was outfitted with a little parachute, also made from duct tape -- handy stuff -- and a timer jury-rigged to the contact fuse. She pitched over into a steep dive as Gilda fired again, trading altitude for speed. It was the only way to keep her distance from Gilda in her condition, but she could only pull that just so many times. Gilda shrunk behind her, firing a couple of shots as she mimicked the dive, but they weren't meant to kill. Just to keep the pressure on.

Rainbow Dash meant to kill. She tapped the switch on the timer and let go. The parachute popped open and the grenade zipped under her tail, shooting back toward Gilda like a rocket. Three. Two. One!

A surprised squawk preceded the thud of the grenade by half a second. Rainbow Dash leveled out, rolling to check on her work, but her heart was already sinking into her stomach. Damn. Gilda had veered off at the last second and avoided the worst of the blast. Her wings and tail trailed smoke, and it gave Dash a little more room, but now she'd be on guard for the same trick. Damn, damn, damn.

The chase was on again, and Rainbow Dash was more exhausted than ever. She cut back toward the mountain as the griffon struggled to make up her lost ground. Another boulder-skimming chase would give her the chance to even the odds again. If Gilda cut wide and waited for her to come out, Dash could turn this into a game of cat and mouse. Dash would win that game, even in this state, and the griffon knew it. And Dash knew she knew.

Anyway, Gilda would never give up a chance to match Rainbow Dash in an obstacle course.

Crack! Crack! Crack! Crack! A stream of S.A.T.S.-guided fire buzzed past, sending up puffs of rock chips from the mountainside as Dash dove through the gap between two boulders. There was no real chance of hitting at this range, but Gilda had the ammo to burn.

Dash slowed as she weaved into the boulders and crags. It would give Gilda the chance to close in, but the pegasus just needed a moment out of sight. Time to be awesome! She tugged the second grenade out of her bandolier. Ready... ready...

She dropped the grenade as she streaked past a crag. The parachute snagged on a scraggly tree -- perfect! And if her timing was just perfect (and it was)...

Three. Two. One. ...Nothing. Nothing! A dud!

"Crap!" she shrieked. She must not have wired it right. She struggled out a third grenade--

Fire shot through her left hindleg. Rainbow Dash screamed even as the warm, terrible numbness of auto-dispensed Med-X consumed the pain. She didn't need the E.F.S. to tell her that her leg was broken. Dash risked a glance back -- Gilda was right on top of her. She dropped the grenade unarmed -- Gilda would be wary -- and threw herself into another dive. She twisted on instinct to dodge a shot aimed for her wing, but she could already feel her boot filling with blood. Artery. Fuck. That gave her, what? Five minutes, tops? No potions, not even any healing bandages to seal the wound. She was already feeling heavier. Fuck me sideways.

She glanced over her shoulder. Gilda was diving right on her tail, busily reloading. Well... this is it. Time to be legendary. Dash spread her wings wide, cupped, catching as much air as she could. Like the parachute before, she braked hard, streaking back toward the diving griffon. Unlike the parachute, she spun in place as Gilda barreled into her.

Rainbow Dash couldn't bring her battle saddle to bear at such close quarters, but Rarity had thought of that. Griffon claws and scorpion tail clashed as she dragged Gilda into a bear hug, their faces inches apart, plummeting down the mountainside in a spinning, struggling mess. Dash tugged at the armored tail, but Gilda gripped it just behind the stinger, keeping it away from her neck.

Blam! The armor-piercing bullet tore through her breastplate, her sternum... her heart... and out through the armor again. It was a scout suit, after all, not assault armor. "Gotcha," Gilda said, smiling.

The pegasus smiled back calmly, like she'd just lost a bet to buy the next round. "Yep, you got me. Too bad you won't get my head anyway." Too late, Gilda twisted to see the three parachutes hanging from Dash's arm, all three timers ticking down. Too late, she started struggling to free herself.

Rainbow Dash smirked in the griffon's face. "Last one to Hell's a gnar--"

A green sun flared, and nobody heard the thunder but a single sleeping dragon.

[Nightfire]

uh...this...may be a idiot question...however does anybody have link to FoE story?

And...am i going to regret trying to read it?...

[tylertoon2]

uh...this...may be a idiot question...however does anybody have link to FoE story?

And...am i going to regret trying to read it?...

No. Not in a million years you will not regret it.


http://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/04/story-fallout-equestria.html

[IncoherentOrange]

@SilentCarto Dafuq was that? Some writing excerpt? A few mistakes here and there, including an exclamation point during description. You don't use those there, those are for thought and dialogue.

[SilentCarto]

@SilentCarto Dafuq was that? Some writing excerpt? A few mistakes here and there, including an exclamation point during description. You don't use those there, those are for thought and dialogue.

I thought the quote adequately explained the 'why'.
Any other errors you can point out?

[tylertoon2]

Is it weird that every-time I go out on a clear night, I send up a complement to Luna?

[IncoherentOrange]

@SilentCarto Dafuq was that? Some writing excerpt? A few mistakes here and there, including an exclamation point during description. You don't use those there, those are for thought and dialogue.

I thought the quote adequately explained it, and Rainbow Dash definitely thinks with exclamation points.

I wasn't aware that we were actually doing any sort of writing competition or event. I guess you're right on the latter. To revise and repeat something I once said:

"The English language is a tool with which the author sculpts their works; not a set of rules, but loose guidelines to consider."

Stylistic usage of the exclamation point is okay then, I suppose. I'll comb through it for further errors.

[SilentCarto]

I wasn't aware that we were actually doing any sort of writing competition or event. I guess you're right on the latter.

I went ahead and took out the exclamation. On second thought it did look kind of odd.
We're not doing a competition (though that will be my submission if we do). I just wanted to write it.

[Caoimhe]

Is it weird that every-time I go out on a clear night, I send up a complement to Luna?

When I step outside at 11pm to go buy milk for the next day and it's raining I just look up and say ... "You little bitch."

Pointing doesn't help my reputation with the community.

[IncoherentOrange]

"Gotcha," Gilda smiled.
'Smiled' is often confused with a speaking verb, but is not and never has been.

'Med-X.' Now I see why you might capitalize this; it's a name of a substance in fiction. Med-X is morphine. Would've been in-game too, if the Australians hadn't complained about it. So I'd write it as 'med-X', myself. I could be wrong, of course; my actual training can be determined by looking at the statistics shown on my information panel to be that of a ninth-grader, which would be correct.

'...heavy-caliber pistols.' A simple wording accuracy anomaly. 'High-caliber pistols' might work better.

All in all, definitely solid writing, sir. Bravo.

[IncoherentOrange]

Nice, Silent. And entirely different than my headcanon, too ^_^

uh...this...may be a idiot question...however does anybody have link to FoE story?

And...am i going to regret trying to read it?...

Depends on your taste in stories, sweetie.
I personally was never able to push myself into caring about any of the original characters. I could complain more, but eh, I still read it, in the end.
But hey, it's pretty popular, so there's that.

I actually find Littlepip's fillyfoolery and crush on VR to be a tad forced; it's not really explained (at least, not early on) and is largely the reason why she left the Stable, which kind of leaves her motive a tad weak. So I can't really bring myself to get behind Littlepip's original motive.

[Caoimhe]

LP's crush on VR can be explained in the same way BJ's crush on Midnight can be. It's a juvenile little crush of opportunity. Littlepip's is a little more laid out in a foreshadowing sort of way. She admires her talent and "freedom" so it kind of presents itself in that manner. Outside of a super closed environment she sort of understands that it was more of a 'jailhouse' sort of crush though.

Edit: Actually as a means for leaving the stable it makes a lot of sense. For an environment like the stable, being used to how mundane life is and always has been can be a chore to someone who is naturally ambitious and strong willed like Littlepip. Her attraction to VR is moreso a form of escapism from the norm. It just makes sense that she'd run after her when she escaped. LP sees nothing beneficial from life in the stable that she's willing to risk at all for the glimmer of hope in something different.

[IncoherentOrange]

Ah, I suppose you do have a point there, but it really seemed to come off as 'VR's out there. Stable 2 doesn't like me. I like Stable 2. Stable 2 likes VR. I like VR. I'm going to go get VR'. Perhaps I shouldn't consume nine chapters of FoE in one sitting, while playing Terraria at the same time. Too much information. On the plus side, it appears to have kicked my muse out of its mindless stupor; I actually managed to write a little today.

[Caoimhe]

Take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm drunk as shit at the moment, but I like the idea that LP endangers herself to the outside world merely on a hopeless crush, it's the sort of reality check that makes perfect sense.

I still don't really like how so shortly after she becomes a remorseless killing machine in Ponyville, but whatever. I think if there was some exposition about the wasteland and then she just found her weapon and ran into that cheese guy and Calamity shortly afterword it would have worked out a little better.

It kind of seems like in that stage that KKat needed to establish that this was indeed a grimdark fanfic by depicting horrific scenes early that really don't have THAT much relevance to the story other than "raiders/slavers are bad." It's funny, the more I appreciate PH the more criticisms I find in FoE. It doesn't make FoE poor but there's a certain sense of timing and the state of ponyfics then that you've got to think about.

[nebulous]

From what I understand, Kkat pictured them as being Mayor Mare's age when the war began and Granny Smith when the bombs fell.

Really curious--where was this implied?

Well, my thinking is that the Mane Six are in the early twenties during the show, so a decade later would make them ~30 at the start of it, ~40 when they opened the Ministries, and ~50 on the day of the apocalypse. Which seems to match up with your writing.

^This.

Is there anything better than our headcanons that indicate the 10-year gap between the show and war?
To me it feels like quite a bit more. (think they got to level the Highlanders' mountains before starting the trade with Zebras, and that lasted for a while before problems began cropping up...

There's already a coal-powered rail network across Equestria during the show, so the highlander coal could've been used in that era. And as I remember it their coal was only heavily mined when trade broke off with the zebras.

Haven't even read one sentence of FoE, since i don't like Reading lots :P

You could just listen to some of it. I prefer to read it, mostly for the memory of reading it the first time.

Only time i can really read large stories is if paper is right there in front of me with story. Not a big fan reading online, mostly for back problems, glasses, and SOOO BORING

When the next batch of these comes out, maybe you could get some.

But that's all beside the point because the other way to look at Hearth's Warming Eve is as a Exodus style story because the name itself Hearth's Warming Eve implies the holiday cerebrates the Winter Solstice when the days start getting warmer again which is a funny thing itself since Celestia and the Pegasus have fiat control over the weather.

If seasonal temperature variation is a product of the sun's and/or world's movement, then a winter solstice holiday coming from before the time the princesses reigned makes sense, as ponies back then would've thought of the seasons as a natural pattern. (Which it may have been, pre-princesses.)

I can imagine Nightmare Night developing from something more like the Summer Sun Celebration after Luna's rebellion/betrayal, but it would make more sense for it to lie closer to Hearth's Warming Eve. Perhaps that was rooted in pre-princess culture and was already established when they arrived, so Luna's celebration was instead set at some other time (presumably not by her, though I might see her pushing to rechedule it if someone else was going to start it anyway)? If so, the question of why that particular time was chosen remains. It is obviously around harvest time, but is there anything beyond analogy placing it at the end of October?

Maybe it was chosen because Luna made harvest moons around that time, and the special lunar occasion made a good time for a holiday celebrating Luna and the moon.

I myself have worked out a set of traditions not obviously dependent on anything of ours for Hearts and Hooves Day, solely based on the name.

Post them please?

Is it weird that every-time I go out on a clear night, I send up a complement to Luna?

No weirder than my asking Celestia to send my sickness to the moon. Anthropomorphizing natural forces has a certain appeal.

I actually find Littlepip's fillyfoolery and crush on VR to be a tad forced; it's not really explained (at least, not early on) and is largely the reason why she left the Stable, which kind of leaves her motive a tad weak. So I can't really bring myself to get behind Littlepip's original motive.

I thought her initial motive for leaving the Stable was becoming a hero to the people in her Stable instead of the insignificant (until she suddenly became kinda hated due to her involvement with VR leaving) technician who didn't have any friends. Gaining the admiration of her crush was just a large bonus.

I still don't really like how so shortly after she becomes a remorseless killing machine in Ponyville, but whatever.

They were torturing people for the lulz and she had a gun. Her reaction seemed perfectly realistic to me.

[Caoimhe]

I still don't really like how so shortly after she becomes a remorseless killing machine in Ponyville, but whatever.

They were torturing people for the lulz and she had a gun. Her reaction seemed perfectly realistic to me.

See, I'm not really so sure here. Her stable didn't have the ingrained concept of death other than by natural causes unlike 99. As a result I wouldn't expect a response from LP other than natural self defense and a lot of fucking fear. Recall that the narration is supposed to be her thoughts at the moment, and there isn't much fear or remorse in her narrative voice. She just sort of "becomes" badass which seems slightly off putting for somepony who has no experience dealing with murderers and threat to her own life and others.

[IncoherentOrange]

Reminds me of how poor I pulled off killing in one of my fics. Those being killed happen not to be humans or ponies, and they only do it a few times. I'll go and count it--there are twelve instances of killing by the actions of the characters, all by the human protagonist and Twilight Sparkle, working together. I justified it with a 'needs of the many...' speech coming from said protagonist. Twilight agrees, stating that Princess Celestia had taught her to be able to do what is necessary to preserve the lives of many, even if it means ending the lives of a few. And then it's hardly mentioned again, for the next 40000 words that make up the rest of the story. Unlike LP, my protagonist never becomes badass; he doesn't have the style.

But of course, that's a different, lower-quality story that many of you would most definitely not enjoy. Possibly what happens when you give a fourteen-year-old a keyboard and spare time. I am very off-topic now.

[Sponsored content]