Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[O. Hinds]

And train travel between the Alliance heartland and NCR would require either passage through the Moojave (in addition to the construction of the Gibhalter tunnel and a Gibhalter-Moojave link line, but there's no point in building those if the trains can't pass through the Moojave). Well, I suppose that the line could divert twice through the mountains instead, but the terrain there is difficult, to say nothing of any possible interference (by the Rose Banner stretching its operations along the canal to Shattered Hoof Ridge, for instance, or some power formed in New Oatleans after ATR and PH).

[Harmony Ltd.]

It's easier to move bulk goods by ship and people by the air (aircraft or chariot).

The Alliance would probably like to make a train line linking Masozi to Gibahlter, but given the geographical and political difficulties of such a project in 30 SR, I think we can safely assume it's going to stay on the blueprints at the very least until a deal isn't struck with Fort Rose, whoever own it at the time.

[O. Hinds]

It's easier to move bulk goods by ship and people by the air (aircraft or chariot).

You may be right.  Sigh...  I just rather like trains.  I've even already picked out a name for the Alliance system: TMC, for Tractus Magnae Celeritatis.  I'm thinking that the Alliance's attempted high speed rail company on the peninsula would be called Nesser, derived from the acronym of New Equestria High Speed Rail.  The first locomotives would be based on the TGV 001 with some inspiration from the Bombardier JetTrain (and fitted with retractable pickup shoes for use on third-rail-electrified sections of track, most importantly the Gibhalter Tunnel).  Anyway, though, we'll see.

The Alliance would probably like to make a train line linking Masozi to Gibahlter, but given the geographical and political difficulties of such a project in 30 SR, I think we can safely assume it's going to stay on the blueprints at the very least until a deal isn't struck with Fort Rose, whoever own it at the time.

Aye, at the moment the only real obstacle besides "lack of passengers" is the Rose Banner's control of at least the western and better half of the isthmus.  The Alliance can't strike a deal with the Banner because that would antagonize the NCR.  The Alliance can't conquer the Banner because that would be seen as further encroachment on the manifest destiny land (and more important land than that already claimed by the Miliozi), which would antagonize the NCR.  The Alliance can't destroy the Banner and not take over because that and a new rail line would remove most of the obstacles between the NCR and annexation of the Moojave.

There's a change that a plot in the Moojave could reform Rose Eye, though (amazing what 100 Speech can accomplish…), which might open up some possibilities.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, so far (30 SR) I doubt what railroad the NCR has been able to salvage / rebuild / build yet would be able to withstand a high speed train. And even once the network is in a better shape, I think it's pretty safe to assume that aerobuses (sky-chariot designed for "mass" transportation of people) will be more popular for interstate travel than train. Or at least cheaper, given all the infrastructure cost will have been paid for decades ago.

The longest "Major" line by Aerobus in the Core Territories (Manehattan - Junction City - New Appleloosa - Glyphmark) is around 300-350 kilometers at a bird's fly. With an average speed of 80 KPH (conservative estimate I'd say), and a 10 minute rest in each station, for passengers to shuffles in and out and to change fliers ; well, I think it would perform better than most train on the same service.

[O. Hinds]

Ah, yes, under those conditions, certainly. I was thinking that, were the Alliance to set up Nesser, though, they'd go through and lay new track allowing 200+ kph service. Hence my concerns about there just not yet being enough people wanting to travel to make it worthwhile.

The Aerobus system sounds rather interesting, though.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yes, the question is how viable is the Aerobus system.

How much weight can a standard pegasus "lift" to fly ? And a griffin ?

And how fast can they go ? And how far before they tire too much ?

That's a really important question that need to be settled, given the strategic importance it has on a whole pan of the setting - not just the aerobuses, but the NCR's military, too. And also the logistical chain between Filly and Junction City, too, depending on how capable the NCR's fliers are.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yo Hinds, question :

You like trains, right ? Given I live minutes away from a relatively important train station, would you be interested if I were to take pictures ?

There's TGVs, for information.

If you (or someone else) are interested, tell me if there's bits and pieces that you'd want to have a look at in particular.

[Meleagridis]

Would everybody be willing to let the sun-stealers have so much control over the NCR's infrastructure? I'm sure some of the tensions might be worked out, but it sure seems like the popular opinion would be to rely on dirt-thumper magic, even if it's not as efficient.

[O. Hinds]

Yo Hinds, question :

You like trains, right ? Given I live minutes away from a relatively important train station, would you be interested if I were to take pictures ?

There's TGVs, for information.

If you (or someone else) are interested, tell me if there's bits and pieces that you'd want to have a look at in particular.

That sounds neat, yeah.  Thanks!
Bloody car-crazy Americans...
I'm not sure about particular parts, though... I'm trying to think of things that wouldn't be otherwise easy to find on the internet.

Would everybody be willing to let the sun-stealers have so much control over the NCR's infrastructure? I'm sure some of the tensions might be worked out, but it sure seems like the popular opinion would be to rely on dirt-thumper magic, even if it's not as efficient.

A point, yes.  I'm not sure which would win out…  Pegasi would probably still be preferred to Alliance-provided services, though.

[O. Hinds]

After further pondering, I'm not thinking of making the TMC an EMU with a power car at one end and a cab car at the other. Opinions?

[Meleagridis]

After further pondering, I'm not thinking of making the TMC an EMU with a power car at one end and a cab car at the other.  Opinions?

Sorry, but the only thing I know about EMUs is that they're not as big as ostriches.

Hm... ostradches...

Maybe not...

[O. Hinds]

After further pondering, I'm not thinking of making the TMC an EMU with a power car at one end and a cab car at the other.  Opinions?

Sorry, but the only thing I know about EMUs is that they're not as big as ostriches.

Hm... ostradches...

Maybe not...

"EMU" here stands for "Electric Multiple Unit". Basically, instead of having big drive motors in one or more locomotives, smaller drive motors are mounted in each car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_multiple_unit
Though I note that that Wikipedia article makes the assumption that EMUs are electric trains, which is not necessarily the case; the proposed TMC design, for instance, would be turbine/diesel-electric (at low speeds the reciprocating diesel APUs can be used to run the train, like on the JetTrain), though with retractable third rail shoes.

[O. Hinds]

Three train-related things, because I seem to have them on the brain at the moment:
Idea: perhaps, to help prevent potential 300+ kph collisions with objects or creatures on the tracks, TMC cab and power cars might be equipped with gatling beam guns?  Opinions?

I think that the TMC, once all the needed tracks are sufficiently upgraded, ought to be able to make the Gibhalter-Junction City run in 3-4 hours maximum.

It occurred to me that it might actually be possible to connect Elusive City to the TMC network.  How feasible do you think a ~150km anchored floating underwater tunnel would be?  The idea is that this would connect the mainland to an underwater station, either floating like the tunnel or built in a rigid tower.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, and I've just realized that the tunnel could perhaps also include a petroleum pipeline.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Would everybody be willing to let the sun-stealers have so much control over the NCR's infrastructure? I'm sure some of the tensions might be worked out, but it sure seems like the popular opinion would be to rely on dirt-thumper magic, even if it's not as efficient.

Well, don't forget the NCR has been founded by a Griffin, and Griffins represent an ever increasing proportion of the NCR's population over the decades (I've chosen to say that of the major species of the NCR [Ponies, Zebra, Griffin] they have the highest rate of natural growth). So even with pegasi out of the picture, the NCR doesn't "lack wings".

[Harmony Ltd.]

@ Hinds, re underwater tunnel : watch this

[Harmony Ltd.]

Possible setting implications ?  

[Harmony Ltd.]

NCR Vs. Rose Banner ?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Random thought :

Mounting something like this on the rear flatbed of an NCR half-track. Though I guess it may be a bit too heavy for that. I don't know.

At least it would be interesting as a "bunker buster" by blowing away enemy position with high explosive shells (against raiders) ; or a acting as a mobile Anti-Tank / Anti-Aircraft gun (against the Alliance).

[O. Hinds]

@ Hinds, re underwater tunnel : watch this

I don't have time to right now (and am likely too tired to appreciate it), sorry, but I've made a note of it.

NCR Vs. Rose Banner ?

…This too. Sorry.

Both of them look interesting, though.

[Meleagridis]

I'm having some pen-to-paper trouble with blank pages, so here's something I've had in my head for a while that I'm going to try and bash out. I've been holding onto this since before really getting into Horizons, so it does feature the Flower Trio as being over in the Everfree or somewhere when PH probably has them getting brutally butchered as they grow torn on the issue of their products at Roseluck Agrifarms being soul-sucking rings of an ancient eldritch horror. Or something like that. I note that the name, "Everfree Solutions," was thought of ten seconds ago and doesn't reflect the actual, private nature of the project. It was just more fun to write like this.

___

Weaponizing the Everfree: A Beginner's Guide

War getting you down? Feel like you don't have enough zany weapons to supply to your ruling monarch/head of state? Well worry no more, my friend, because Everfree Solutions has your back!

You've probably heard lots of crazy things about the Everfree frorest, about how it is dangerous and wild and tainted. Well guess what? It's all true! That's right, everything! From Manticores to moving plants and even little weeds that can cause magical transformations in ponies! But I know what you're thinking:

"Gee, that sure sounds swell, Everfree Solutions! But I heard that those stripes are really stepping up their game. What good is a little weed gonna do?"

Good question! And that's exactly the question our team of experts set out to answer. How can we harness the terrifying might of the Everfree to really stick it to those zebras? The answer turned out to be a lot more than we expected! With a little encouragement from our researchers, these plants can all be turned into a real hum-dinger of a problem for any sneaky stripe that thinks he can bust into our borders. Take the humble little poison joke! You've probably heard stories from your grandparents, back when the Everfree wasn't as angry about all those zebras coming around, where your folks could come and go from the forest with ease. Do you remember the one they told you about a little blue plant that made their tongue swell up? Or made them lose their balance? Or hiccup uncontrollably? Hilarious, isn't it! But can it help us win a war? Don't take it from me, just listen to what our resident expert, Pun Pony, has to say:

"The plant feeds off some sort of energy we can't quite understand yet, but based on our trials it's almost guaranteed that it's source of nourishment comes from ponies. It's a little early to say, but I firmly believe it responds to our own sense of humour to form the basis for the jokes it uses. If we can modify the plant to alter its 'sense of humour,' we can encourage it make a joke that will better incapacitate the target. Make it focus on a zebra with two left hooves and literally give them two left hooves! Unable to fight, it will behoove them to retreat!"

There you have it! Day and night we are working to bring the untamed might of the forest to bear! The Everfree: Yesterday's enemy, tomorrow's weapon!

___

There may have been other attempts to weaponize some of the forest's trappings, but Roseluck, Daisy, and Lilly were only in charge of a facility that focused on the plants. They needed to re-purpose them into biological weapons to use against the zebra. Lethal spores, poison joke, and predatory plants were among the projects under their supervision. Naturally, everything got out of hand, though they were certainly successful experiments. While some predatory plants developed naturally in the Everfree, the most vicious and aggressive specimens come from this Vault 92 expy. The spores, which kill nearly any creature and then drive its body to attack and infect more, have spread throughout the forest and have been key in repelling Red Eye's attempts to harvest lumber. But by far their most successful experiments have resulted in killing joke.

Originally they had no luck in influencing the joke, only piecing together what influenced it. It wasn't until a specialist was brought in, a former comedienne, that they finally began to make headway. Even still, the joke is extremely resistant to change. It's not until they have manufactured Thrilling Joke, Tilling Joke, Spilling Joke and others that the comedienne starts to understand that their resulting product will by no means be a nonlethal incapacitator. This, combined with the joke stubbornly using every -illing pun in the Equestrian language including obscure dialects and slang despite 'killing' be an obvious choice, convinces the mare that there is some force actively resisting the joke's transformation. This doubter, Pun, will be our post-apocalyptic log writer for the evening.

[O. Hinds]

@Meleagridis:
"It wasn't until a specialist was brought in, a former comedienne, that they finally began to make headway."
Ask Pun?

"This doubter, Pun, will be our post-apocalyptic log writer for the evening."
Ask Pun.  :D

NCR Vs. Rose Banner ?

Interesting, thanks!  I do wonder how things in the Moojave will turn out… The Banner is never going to surrender to the NCR (and the NCR certainly isn't going to leave the isthmus controlled by a hostile group), so a peaceful resolution would be dependent on convincing them to at least work with each other in ways that don't involve exchanging bullets.  On the Banner's side, that involves making that 100 Speech check against Rose Eye, which can probably be done at any time, but the NCR's side is likely more complex (with a decreasing probability of success as a potential armed conflict lengthens).  If things come to blows, a lot depends on who's done a better job of winning the locals over.  The wider political situation is also important; if the Banner plays things right with the Alliance, they might be able to "find" a lot of brand-new-looking materiel; the NCR (or the missteps of the Banner), meanwhile could prevent this or even bring the Alliance in on the NCR's side.

Taking into account both in and out of universe considerations (ie, what strikes the best balance between "pleasant for the people living there" and "interesting to read about"), the best route might be for the Banner to get at least most of the Moojave on their side (definitely including the Cow Guai so that the Banner becomes anti-slavery) and for the war to begin; after some exciting wartime stuff with a trend of the NCR slowly moving towards a costly victory, the Hero of the Moojave (whatever they're called) about whom the story centers makes the Speech check.  The possibility of peaceful coexistence or even cooperation is made known, and, while it doesn't convince the NCR to pull out (they've already spent quite a bit of blood and treasure to take the Moojave, after all), it does convince the Alliance to clandestinely supply materiel to the Moojave.  That turns the tide, and the NCR starts being slowly pushed out.  Eventually, they pull out entirely, and the Moojave Union is born.  I'm not sure how to actually work this into a story, though, or that it actually is the best course of things.

[O. Hinds]

@ Hinds, re underwater tunnel : watch this

Hm, yes, interesting; thank you for the link.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I hadn't thought about this, and this makes some sense

(at least as a "comedy option")

[O. Hinds]

What do you think of this for the design of the AS Radiant Dawn (the ship that you had Splendid Dusk captaining, if you recall)?

Yes, I'm aware that this is in the far future from the rest of the stuff we're working on, but, after my father and I saw the new Star Trek movie the other day, I got a bit of inspiration.

Oh, I'm thinking that the standard internal floor-to-ceiling height would be 4.5m; it's excessive for most people, but it allows pegasi and griffins limited flight, provides ample headroom for larger species such as alicorns, hellhounds, and minotaurs, and makes the ship less claustrophobic for those who might be bothered.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Lol.

Well, I don't know. It's very utilitarian, and makes much more sense than the "real" Star Trek ship design, at least in the sense that you don't wonder where the center of gravity is on that thing. On the other hand... It doesn't really feel like something either out of Equestria or Fallout (well, duh!).

Is it necessary for the main body to be a sphere ? Wouldn't a cylinder or hexagon look better ?

Honestly, I don't have much experience with Star-Trek influenced starship design. For example I don't know if the warp nacelles wouldn't be better closer to the main body, or having only three but bigger... I don't know.


What are you aiming for here ?

[O. Hinds]

On the other hand... It doesn't really feel like something either out of Equestria or Fallout (well, duh!).

Well, it is several centuries in the future, and it's designed by the Alliance (including the NCR for some time by this point), not Equestria.

Is it necessary for the main body to be a sphere ? Wouldn't a cylinder or hexagon look better ?

It seemed sensible to me. A cylinder could work, but I'm not sure what to do with the ends. I'm not sure how sphere caps would look.

Honestly, I don't have much experience with Star-Trek influenced starship design. For example I don't know if the warp nacelles wouldn't be better closer to the main body, or having only three but bigger... I don't know.

Nor do I. In larger part because Trek ship design is kind of stupid. Just because you can use structural integrity fields to hold crazy designs together doesn't mean that you should build your entire fleet such that the ships need structural integrity fields to hold together. And the inertial compensators would draw less power if you built your decks perpendicular to the ship's direction of thrust. And your control room should be buried in the center of the ship, not stuck right on the surface in a predictable location… etc.

What are you aiming for here ?

"Trekkish but more sensible", I think.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, and with the ponyverse potential significance of the number six.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Is it necessary for the main body to be a sphere ? Wouldn't a cylinder or hexagon look better ?

It seemed sensible to me.  A cylinder could work, but I'm not sure what to do with the ends.  I'm not sure how sphere caps would look.

An Ovoid / Ovaloid, maybe ?

[O. Hinds]

A prolate spheroid, you mean?

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