Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[O. Hinds]

(I'm a bit low on sleep, but hopefully this will still be sufficiently coherent.)

How are sky-chariots supposed to work here?

From the show, it seems like a normal land-carriage can be made to "levitate" when carried by a pegasi. But if you make that carriage bigger, or the load heavier, I suppose this increase the strain on the pegasi to the point where it can't lift it anymore?

So if you had something like an Aerobus, or a Sky-Tank (see: FoE), I suppose it's fair to say that unless you equip it with levitation talismans, you'll need to have it flown by a number of pegasi to have it fly?


Thoughts?

My impression is that, in this universe, a pegasus's magic can try to spread over anything hitched to them (witness carts hovering behind pegasi instead of hanging from them). There's only so much magic available, though, and probably only so far it can spread; as the cart gets bigger and heavier, the magic becomes less effective. One can add more pegasi and thus more magic, but that requires a larger number of pegasi, space to put them, and probably some training or experience in working together on this. Alternatively, one can use enchantments and/or technology.

I had asked Calamity about it later, and he had explained that some of the really big skywagons, like that one which had been designed to carry dozens of ponies, used a magical field generated by a spark engine so that a single pony could pull it through the air.

Levitation talismans sound like they'd also work; I imagine that just boosting preexisting pegasus magic is more efficient, or at least was cheaper, in this regime, though, hence why it's used.

IIRC, wasn't New Appleoosa built on a still relatively functional trainyard?

I don't think so. It's built on a junction, possibly a yard, but my interpretation of the text
Okay, I'm glad you brought this up, because I've just looked back at the text and discovered I was wrong. I'm still not sure if it has an actual yard, but they appear to have built the town not on the junction, as I'd thought, but very, very closely around the junction.

When we found him, he was loading barrels onto the flatbed of a train car -- this one actually still on the tracks that ran through town and connected to several others.

So now I'm imagining some nicely atmospheric images of streets built with the lines down the center, or possibly even streets built to the loading gauge where a double line was half built over.

With relatively intact traintracks leading to Manehatten on one side and Fillydelphia on the other?

The only tracks FoE tells us are usable are the ones between the Appleoosas. Old Appleoosa trades with Fillydelphia, and it would be reasonable to assume that the rail lines between those two have been repaired (PH and MN7 both indicate that Red Eye is repairing parts of the rail network, though I'm not sure how much of MN7's bits of that I'm using). I'm pretty sure that the line to Manehattan would be in working order only by chance on the Day of Sunshine and Rainbows, though. (Also, they wouldn't be in opposite directions, unless you're talking about New Appleoosa being linked to Fillydelphia by the line to the east of the Everfree.)

Because it that's the case, then that would be another possible answer as to how Ditzy managed to build the Absolutely Everything Shipping Company.

…Maybe, but why not just use her own wings and ability to pull things?
Oh, wait, or do you mean post-SR? Yes, that I could see. The lines would need refurbishment in most places, but Red Eye's already shown that that's possible. I don't know what speed the refurbished lines could manage, but they'd be better than nothing.

[Harmony Ltd.]

…Maybe, but why not just use her own wings and ability to pull things?
Oh, wait, or do you mean post-SR? Yes, that I could see. The lines would need refurbishment in most places, but Red Eye's already shown that that's possible. I don't know what speed the refurbished lines could manage, but they'd be better than nothing.

Also, during the Bitter War, she can't do much to help alone, and most Volunteer pegasi would probably make themselves more useful during that time period either fighting directly against the Bitters or training the surfacers, or helping the surfacers build their infrastructures, and other similar "support" activity making use of their generally higher education relative to the average wastelander.

So this would leave the NCR dependent on land-bound caravans for the bulk of its logistic during the period. Thus, using already functional or easily repairable train tracks to carry their stuff around could be a sensible move on their part.

[O. Hinds]

Aye. That could make the rail lines targets, of course, but any of the supply lines would be. Trains are probably faster and can mount bigger weapons.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Flatbeds with AA guns.

And then, later on, you get the trains you've always wanted. :v

[O. Hinds]

...Yeah, I'm never shaking this reputation now, am I?
(Not that I'd want to, of course! :D)

[Harmony Ltd.]

Do we know how resilient Enclave Power Armor is against AP rounds?

I wondering if a .50 Browning M2 equivalent is enough to tear them to pieces, or if you need to use a bigger gun to reliably take Enclave troopers down.

[O. Hinds]

Well, I'd be surprised if it was significantly tougher than Steel Ranger armor (it would be an achievement making it as strong as Steel Ranger armor), and we know that AP ammunition is problematic for them.

[Harmony Ltd.]

So how big of a bullet do you need to reliably penetrate a Ranger's armor? I suppose .50 AP will do?

P.S.: The use of the following munition is Littlepip Approved!

Spoiler:

[O. Hinds]

I expect so.

:)

Of course, with Enclave soldiers, there's the problem of hitting them. They're fast and maneuverable fliers armed with long-range beam weapons.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I can see something like this being used:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M45_Quadmount


But yes, successfully hitting the buggers is going to be a problem. Especially if they start doing sneaky things like dropping bombs on a train from above in a dive and go away as fast as they can.

The best defence against Bitter flyers would be to have flyers of your own. The AA guns would mostly serve to "interdict" a piece of airspace - make it so that enemy flyers can't venture near it without having to maneuver in order to avoid being shot.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Actually hitting and downing a Flyer with AA guns most likely will require using lots of guns in order to mass enough daka to have statistically enough chance of hitting your target. And also would require having either more people shooting at the enemy than there is enemy, or more than one gun per defender. Or alternatively guns with a very high rate of fire. Trouble is that logistically, this would require consuming a lot of munitions per target.

Another solution would be to use Flak, fused explosive shells. Would allow for proximity detonations and kills through shrapnel and explosive concussive force. Trouble would be the fuse mechanism, and also I'm not sure how efficient shrapnel would be against Enclave power armor.

[O. Hinds]

The best defence against Bitter flyers would be to have flyers of your own.

Just make sure that your gunners can tell the difference.

Actually hitting and downing a Flyer with AA guns most likely will require using lots of guns in order to mass enough daka to have statistically enough chance of hitting your target. And also would require having either more people shooting at the enemy than there is enemy, or more than one gun per defender. Or alternatively guns with a very high rate of fire. Trouble is that logistically, this would require consuming a lot of munitions per target.

Another solution would be to use Flak, fused explosive shells. Would allow for proximity detonations and kills through shrapnel and explosive concussive force. Trouble would be the fuse mechanism, and also I'm not sure how efficient shrapnel would be against Enclave power armor.

Agreed on both counts.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, and while the Alliance has tech that could help with that, there's first the problem of convincing them to become less neutral despite the bioweapon threat and second, well...
"Wouldn't it be nice if the you had quick-tracking radar-guided computer-controlled automatic-automated beam turrets with integrated smart IFF and the ability to shoot down not just enemy fliers but bombs and missile salvos? Well you can! Just sign this rental agreement, oh, and this trade deal, have to do that to export weapons, you know, and you'll need this service contract, oh yes, and the gensets come separately and use proprietary plugs, and of course you'll need fuel, so here's a contract for that, and hey, why not hire us for track sweeping while you're at it, threat of bombs and such, just fill out these permits…"

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yeah. I guess the NCR may import some weapons during that time period. I'm not sure which concessions they may make, though. Maybe it could be the reason why there's A-Town in Manehatten? Could be a consequence of the arm deals of the time?


By curiosity, does the Alliance has something resembling a non-Elusive-held modern weapon manufacturer? Maybe some smugglers may have been able to get some of the good stuff to the NCR for a good price under Elusive's radar?

Spoiler:

[O. Hinds]

Maybe it could be the reason why there's A-Town in Manehatten? Could be a consequence of the arm deals of the time?

Hm, possibly. Elusive would try for more, but there's a limit to what he can get.

By curiosity, does the Alliance has something resembling a non-Elusive-held modern weapon manufacturer?

The Miliozi, unsurprisingly, do a lot of weapons manufacturing.

Maybe some smugglers may have been able to get some of the good stuff to the NCR for a good price under Elusive's radar?

…but are not really big on exporting weapons, except in the "one express shipment of individually-unpackaged bullets coming right up, pointy ends first" way.

Actually, he would have known and just allowed it, in order to get the NCR hooked on the good stuff. Plus, better the NCR fight the Bitters than the Alliance need to get directly involved in that mess; considering the Bitters would have probably also started attacking it once they had finished "cleaning" the Peninsula.

And isn't Elusive all about plausible deniability and getting shit done in the way that benefit him the most?

Hm… Port Maple. I'm not sure if they were counted a minor power yet, but, on the other hoof, this could have been a key part of them attaining that status. Port Maple makes weapons with Elusive's covert assistance, "Gibhalter civilians" (Gibhalter being the Alliance power most genuinely sympathetic towards the NCR) and independent couriers get the weapons over, the NCR fights off the Bitters for the Alliance while becoming used to having Alliance goods, Port Maple weakens the Miliozi (and grows itself, but that's an acceptable loss for Elusive) in terms of the Alliance's internal politics, and then Elusive can "discover" the "smuggling" trade and cut it off at an inconvenient time for the NCR. But if they'd like to buy the materiel legitimately, well, it so happens that he has some contracts ready…

-OR- it could be Miliozi weapons, mostly old but effective junk. That way the bitters get dealt with without the Miliozi seeming like they're breaking their neutrality. Would this fit with their modus operandi?

It would be counter to it. The Miliozi barely arm the rest of the Alliance, much less foreigners. Sure, the believe that their training practices could give them victories possibly even with numerical and technological inferiority, but that's no reason to actually try and reduce their numerical and technological advantages (well, most of their R&D is done by Profectum, but Profectum and the Miliozi, while they sometimes have their disagreements, tend to be on quite good terms).

[Harmony Ltd.]

And later the NCR can try to reverse-engineer what weapons it did get.

They may not be able to reproduce the finer points at first (targeting "AIs", high-tech computer parts, etc), but they can get the fundamentals, and try to come up with local solutions to the parts they haven't been able to reverse-engineer.

One way or another, they'll be able to improve their own weapon-making industry from it.


You know, the most important thing may actually be to learn some material science, and to learn how to do some practical metallurgy and work with all the different alloys that are needed for modern mechanical engineering. That's the kind of things that doesn't come naturally.

I believe they could get help from their native Zebra population. And there's probably something that could be done with the Twilight Society and its arcane knowledge.

[O. Hinds]

And later the NCR can try to reverse-engineer what weapons it did get.

They may not be able to reproduce the finer points at first (targeting "AIs", high-tech computer parts, etc), but they can get the fundamentals, and try to come up with local solutions to the parts they haven't been able to reverse-engineer.

One way or another, they'll be able to improve their own weapon-making industry from it.

You're forgetting about anti-tampering measures, though. Open the casing without the proper code and the onboard AI will do its best to ruin the innards before you can look at them. Possibly explosively, but you voided the warranty when you opened the case and absolved the Company of responsibility. :)
The NCR might still be able to learn from what's left, but they'd learn a lot less and with much more risk.
Oh, and there's also the fact that the NCR would have a hard time reproducing some of the materials used just from reverse engineering, given that they draw from a long history of alchemical engineering.

You know, the most important thing may actually be to learn some material science, and to learn how to do some practical metallurgy and work with all the different alloys that are needed for modern mechanical engineering. That's the kind of things that doesn't come naturally.

Hm, possibly. I'd not thought of that. The advanced alchemical engineering stuff might be beyond their reach, but there's a lot of much more basic knowledge that's in short supply. There might be some ghouls who worked in those areas, but there probably aren't many if there are any. The GPE was skilled only in repairing what it had. Red Eye's empire had a good bit of knowledge here, but most of the people who shared in that are now either dead or unwilling to help the NCR.
Hm, the NCR might be able to gain from reverse-engineering artifacts from the Fillydelphia ruins, too.

I believe they could get help from their native Zebra population. And there's probably something that could be done with the Twilight Society and its arcane knowledge.

Possibly. The Angels know some basic alchemy, and the Remnant (if any of them are joining the NCR, which isn't certain) probably have some specialists. The Angels don't seem to have maintained it as an engineering discipline suitable for heavy manufacturing, though, and if the Remnant has, there are probably very few specialists indeed at that level.
The Twilight Society could certainly be of a lot of use with analysis spells, I expect, and with general research.

[Harmony Ltd.]

You know, the most important thing may actually be to learn some material science, and to learn how to do some practical metallurgy and work with all the different alloys that are needed for modern mechanical engineering. That's the kind of things that doesn't come naturally.

Hm, possibly.  I'd not thought of that.  The advanced alchemical engineering stuff might be beyond their reach, but there's a lot of much more basic knowledge that's in short supply.  There might be some ghouls who worked in those areas, but there probably aren't many if there are any.  The GPE was skilled only in repairing what it had.  Red Eye's empire had a good bit of knowledge here, but most of the people who shared in that are now either dead or unwilling to help the NCR.
Hm, the NCR might be able to gain from reverse-engineering artifacts from the Fillydelphia ruins, too.

It's a thing I had thought about a while ago. It was the reason why I was thinking that the NCR's tech base might look closer to this or that, rather than like this or that.

[O. Hinds]

Aye.

[O. Hinds]

I do wonder how many of Red Eye's foals the NCR got.  The ones with the most education would also be the ones with the most indoctrination.
Oh, and the non-foal ponies with the most technical knowledge probably gained it by working for Red Eye.  Probably making use of slave labor, and maybe even forced experimentation.  Which would put the NCR in a somewhat awkward position...

[Harmony Ltd.]

See: Verner Von Braun.

[O. Hinds]

That is indeed what I was thinking of. :)

And of course, this works out well for Rose Eye either way. The NCR uses them? She can crow about their hypocrisy (and maybe have an easier time with espionage). The NCR doesn't use them and they get away? Guess who they'll probably run to*. The NCR doesn't use them and catches them? The members of the Banner, and anyone who joins, should be so happy that they have its protection to stop the same thing happening to them.

*Well, maybe the Alliance, but the Alliance, even ignoring the diplomatic difficulties, probably doesn't need them. Red Eye did have some people doing cutting-edge stuff, but the vast majority of his projects involved rebuilding things that the Alliance had already rebuilt for itself even at the time.

[O. Hinds]

Oh.  And the Bitter War provides so many opportunities.
"The Bitters have started using horrific bioweapons against you?  What a tragedy.  You know, I think I may have heard something about a project Red Eye was working on... not that I remember, at the moment, being personally involved, you understand, given how unethical it was, but perhaps I could dredge the depths of my mind for some useful nuggets of information.  It's so hard to think, though... maybe I'd have an easier time if you let me out of this cell, publicly granted me amnesty, and gave me a job?"

[O. Hinds]

I don't recall Red Eye particularly working on bioweapons, but that's the general idea. And, hey, maybe he was; even if he didn't start the program deliberately, a new experimental fertilizer might have turned out to be highly toxic or something.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, under the ever watchful vigilance of the NCR's Commissar Corp, ensuring their ongoing adherence to the moral precepts of the Republic, there would be no hypocrisy to ensuring their competences goes to bettering the Wasteland. After all, wasn't it a famous Hero of the Wasteland who said "Do Better"? /propaganda

[O. Hinds]

Heh.
Of course, how useful that particular bit of propaganda would be might be rather dependent on what Blackjack is up to.

[Harmony Ltd.]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I find it funny how on one side Velvet Remedy is that kind of über-pacifist, quasi Saint-like figure, supposedly so credible in her role of neutral figure that even though she was involved in Littlepip's adventure almost from the start, her words carry enough weight that the Followers can operate in Rose Eyes' territories (under of course a certain number of restrictions, but that's not what this is about), and not only did she refuse to be a member of the Knights of Harmony, she take a perverse pleasure in uncovering its agents around her (of course not disclosing their identity to others, but she make it a point to show them "I know who you are");

While her husband is one of the founders of the NCR's Armed Forces, a still active General of the NCRAF, and a prominent public figure of the Knights of Harmony.

The week-end family dinners must be pretty... interesting, I tell you what.


I wonder how often they would invite Ditzy to come? If not for her, at least for her dozen of adopted orphans to come and play around the domain while the adults try not to speak about politics, and fail miserably.  

[Harmony Ltd.]

Oh, by the way, I wonder what Silver Bell might be up to nowadays?

[Harmony Ltd.]

I wonder how often they would invite Ditzy to come? If not for her, at least for her dozen of adopted orphans to come and play around the domain while the adults try not to speak about politics, and fail miserably.  

And of course, let's not forget Fluttershy. With Goldenblood following suit. And Whisper. And Stygius.

Oh god.

Someone write that.

[O. Hinds]

The week-end family dinners must be pretty... interesting, I tell you what.


I wonder how often they would invite Ditzy to come? If not for her, at least for her dozen of adopted orphans to come and play around the domain while the adults try not to speak about politics, and fail miserably.  

:D

Followers can operate in Rose Eyes' territories (under of course a certain number of restrictions, but that's not what this is about)

To clarify a bit on this, the Followers aren't allowed to operate in the Banner's direct territory south of the river; if they truly want to help people there, Rose Eye says, they can join the Banner, publicly renouncing any NCR citizenship they may possess. Velvet may genuinely try to keep NCR spies out of the Followers, but that doesn't mean that she'll always succeed or that Rose Eye will believe her. Followers do, however, tend to receiving significantly more leniency from the Banner than non-Follower foreigners in similar situations; a Follower caught in Banner lands probably wouldn't be too violently interrogated and might even be released instead of executed, and Followers in the Moojave, rather than being harassed like most non-defecting travelers from the NCR, are viewed as under the same Banner protection as Moojave natives.
The difference between Rose Eye and the other warlords who came out of the ruins of Red Eye's empire is, of course, that Rose Eye is an intelligent and genuine believer in Red Eye's ideals; unlike the warlords who are satisfying their own material lusts, she wants to build a better world. The Banner and the Followers differ very much in terms of methods, of course, but Rose Eye respects that the Followers are just earnestly and uncomplicatedly trying to help people. I imagine that Velvet has at least a little respect for Rose Eye, too.

Oh, by the way, I wonder what Silver Bell might be up to nowadays?

Hm. Well, the only thing I can think of is moving up the hierarchy of AESC. If she's not interested in that, though, I don't know what she'd be doing. Art?

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