What makes a good fallout equestria fanfic in your opinion?

[cb5]

It's no secret that there's a ton of FoE fanfics and that; some not so great, but others are really good.  However the question of why people like it is kind of up for debate, but what do you personally like about them and what do you think makes a good FoE fanfic good?

Personally I like to think the thing that makes the fanfics is that their morality plays with a good-deeds archetype hero in that the hero is a mortal who tries their best even though they constantly screw up and to many is a villain, whereas the villains mean well.

Littlepip constantly fucked up and even got civilians killed by accident, and was a drug addict.  Blackjack was a rapist who was brought up to think it was okay, got one filly ripped apart, another crippled, and a million other things.

Red eye, Trixie, Sanguine, Cognitum all mean well too.

Also character development.  All the action in the world can't save a story if the main character doesn't have a personality.

But anyways that's just my opinion.  What do you think makes a good fallout equestria fanfic?

[Kippershy]

Haven't really got the time to sit down and give you a proper answer... but...
Knowing when to end the god damn story and knowing how to STICK to that story.

[O. Hinds]

Hm...
Well, beyond the things that make writing in general good (Punctuation: Learn to use it properly, internet!), the first thing that comes to my mind is worldbuilding.  I particularly like worldbuilding that I can fold into my headcanon, but I enjoy even incompatible worldbuilding.  My favorite part of PH is still not an action scene or emotional conversation but an offhoof mention of the details of some bilingual signage.  Also, I consider a certain reaction I had to part of MN7 to be good evidence of this preference:

MN7 spoiler!:

As a related aside, one of my favorite pieces of non-FoE fanfiction is Travels through Azeroth and Outland, which I continued reading even after I otherwise got bored of WoW. The story is basically nothing but worldbuilding.

[Scienza]

The single most important thing for me, and this applies to all fiction, is good characters. The character is the very foundation of a story, and a complex one who lives and breathes can make all the difference.

[Icy Shake]

Hm...
Well, beyond the things that make writing in general good (Punctuation: Learn to use it properly, internet!), the first thing that comes to my mind is worldbuilding. I particularly like worldbuilding that I can fold into my headcanon, but I enjoy even incompatible worldbuilding.  

It's hard for me to identify what makes a good story for me. While I can echo you on punctuation (it's taken effort for me to just accept Somber's odd love of the [independent clause];[sentence fragment] construction, for instance), and would add correct spelling and word and idiom use ("literally" means "literally," not "figuratively," and the correct usage of "x if not y" and "x let alone y" spring to mind), I can't say that those are truly required, given that if I don't offer at least some slack on the technical front, almost no pony fiction will pass the hurdle. Really, for me, it's okay as long as it isn't so bad it draws me out of the story. Though, this requirement has probably risen for me over time, as the average technical proficiency has risen.

It's made more difficult by the need to encompass the FoE stories I've enjoyed (I haven't read many, but I've liked most of the ones I've read, at least for a while). In a way, it comes down to what qualities FoE, PH, and parts of Pink Eye and MN7 share. World building may be a factor, as may the ability to write comedy. Good, deep, well-developed characters? I'd like to say so, but that's not something that all (or even the majority) of those share. A decently constructed plot is something I think they largely have in common. Yet I don't think that's it. Maybe it depends on the genre: PE succeeded, to the extent that it did for me, not on the same axes as the others, but largely as a goofy comedy. FoE didn't have all that much levity that I remember: it took itself very seriously (it also had first-mover advantage and excellent timing for its publishing). I guess I can't define what makes a good FoE story for me, beyond that it succeed within the genre it works, distinct from the world it inhabits. Sure, there are the baseline requirements that the characters be at least a little interesting and the technical proficiency not be too appalling, but beyond that, if some combination of setting, characters, plot, and theme stand out fairly well, then I can work with it. In a pinch, though, I'd have to say world building, as that has been one of my favorite aspects of books from LOTR to Dune to The Chronicles of Chrestomanci and more.

MN7 spoiler!:

Spoilered because I like to follow the crowd.

Spoiler:

[Icy Shake]

I'll tell you right now, I read Pink Eyes (skimmed, mostly) because it was short.
Pink Voice (IIRC) was interesting, but I disliked every other character. There particularly seemed to be a lot of random characters coming together at the end that I never figured out the reason for. Then, you know, the nightmare.
But it was short and easy to skim, so I can't hate on it too much.

I know. That version of the Nightmare is easily the worst I've ever read, and might be something like the theoretical minimum outside of troll fiction, and maybe including that if you require it retain some resemblance to the Nightmare Moon of the show. And the ending (well, the climax) was full of what the fuckery, even by the story's own massively inflated standards.

MN7 Hinds section spoiler thing:

And yet still more MN7 spoilerage because reasons:

[cb5]

Actually I was talking to a couple of my friends that aren't that into the FoE community and they actually gave me a list that to them as the average brony, non-FoE community member, just an average reader reading FoE fanfics.

Considering how many of them responded with the exact same things and why they don't like a lot of FoE fanfics I'd have to say that it's a pretty good list of things to avoid in a FoE fanfic, but I have to disagree with half of them though.

The list was pretty consistant and keep in mind that they represent the average reader, not the hardcore FoE fan.

If you are a hardcore FoE fan it may piss you off:

I only agree with half of the points, but I can see their points.

[O. Hinds]

While I can echo you on punctuation (it's taken effort for me to just accept Somber's odd love of the [independent clause];[sentence fragment] construction, for instance), and would add correct spelling and word and idiom use ("literally" means "literally," not "figuratively," and the correct usage of "x if not y" and "x let alone y" spring to mind), I can't say that those are truly required, given that if I don't offer at least some slack on the technical front, almost no pony fiction will pass the hurdle.

Oh, the punctuation was just an example.  I may still have not found any maximum amount of grimdark I can tolerate, but I can be very sensitive to mechanical errors.  For many well-reviewed stories, I can't get past the first paragraph.


re Pink Eyes:
I never actually got to the end of Pink Eyes… and from what I've heard, that's a good thing.

[spoiler="Guess what?"]From what I recall of the bit I read prior to starting skimming, I think that swicked is more right.  On the other hoof, I'm not sure that there's actually much of a difference there; if we assume that the choice is irrevocable, the only difference between the two views of the choice is that one of them has Murky's body still walking around.[/quote]
Oh, and do you read ATR at all, Icy Shake?

[cb5]

I sort of like Pink Eye's ending.  The trying to use the spell similar to the elements of harmony was definitely cheesy and urgh, but I kind of liked how puppysmile's friend has to accept that she's dead dead and let her go.  If they had cut out the spell it would have been better.

[O. Hinds]

Actually I was talking to a couple of my friends that aren't that into the FoE community and they actually gave me a list that to them as the average brony, non-FoE community member, just an average reader reading FoE fanfics.

Considering how many of them responded with the exact same things and why they don't like a lot of FoE fanfics I'd have to say that it's a pretty good list of things to avoid in a FoE fanfic, but I have to disagree with half of them though.

The list was pretty consistant and keep in mind that they represent the average reader, not the hardcore FoE fan.

If you are a hardcore FoE fan it may piss you off:

I only agree with half of the points, but I can see their points.

…How is extended lore a bad thing? No, seriously. That is not a rhetorical question. The others I either agree with (in base form if not in vitriol or eagerness to tar all FoE fics with the same brush) or can at least see possible reasons for (Though why one who dislikes grimdark and lesbianism proceeds to read a story in this fandom (which does seem to have rather a pronounced fondness for lesbian horses) and tagged "grimdark" and then believes that their encounter with grimdark and lesbianism is somehow the story's fault…), but this one completely baffles me.

[cb5]

Actually I was talking to a couple of my friends that aren't that into the FoE community and they actually gave me a list that to them as the average brony, non-FoE community member, just an average reader reading FoE fanfics.

Considering how many of them responded with the exact same things and why they don't like a lot of FoE fanfics I'd have to say that it's a pretty good list of things to avoid in a FoE fanfic, but I have to disagree with half of them though.

The list was pretty consistant and keep in mind that they represent the average reader, not the hardcore FoE fan.

If you are a hardcore FoE fan it may piss you off:

I only agree with half of the points, but I can see their points.

…How is extended lore a bad thing?  No, seriously.  That is not a rhetorical question.  The others I either agree with (in base form if not in vitriol or eagerness to tar all FoE fics with the same brush) or can at least see possible reasons for (Though why one who dislikes grimdark and lesbianism proceeds to read a story in this fandom (which does seem to have rather a pronounced fondness for lesbian horses) and tagged "grimdark" and then believes that their encounter with grimdark and lesbianism is somehow the story's fault…), but this one completely baffles me.

The best put argument was, "When a author has to walk on egg shells".  If a author has to walk on egg shells when writing I have to totally agree with here.

[Scienza]

The best put argument was, "When a author has to walk on egg shells".  If a author has to walk on egg shells when writing I have to totally agree with here.

To some extent, yes, but that's kinda something you accept when you write derivative fiction. You don't always have to be completely rigid to the original (otherwise shipping would not exist), but there are eggshells that need to be walked on.

[Icy Shake]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone insist that FoE is canon to the show. I can't imagine why anyone would hold that position; heck, large parts of the show aren't canon to FoE unless you want to make some logical contortions.
As for the "walking on eggshells": I agree that there are limits to what should be changed when making a derivative work. However, the insistence that nothing ever ever be altered in the least bit, even if it wasn't fully established (and it's worth noting that since FoE is, at heart, an apology written by Littlepip based on her own limited perspective and presumably written in a way to best serve her own needs, there's some real leeway that can be applied to most things she didn't see with her own eyes). And that is a position I've seen taken, which strikes me as "funny," considering FoE is based on taking major liberties with what we haven't seen in the show.

As for the rest: Sues happen in all genres, and there may be fewer than one suspects in FoE stories, but never forget Sturgeon's Law; on extended lore, I'm with Hinds, in that I don't see how it can be a bad thing unless you want to reconcile dozens or hundreds on independent fanfics that were never meant to play together; Sturgeon's Law; I can accept that many may be longer than need be: I'd say that much of the beginning of FoE could be trimmed down in favor of a more satisfying ending and some insight into who Littlepip was before she left the Stable, PH might have some stuff to cut (Hightower was over inflated, I think, maybe a couple of chapters in the twenties could be combined, and I'm sure that a couple thousand words or so could be trimmed from each chapter without too much harm), and MN7 is way too long for what it has going on, but for the most part I see that as a second order problem at worst in most cases; more diversity in that respect would be good, but that's hardly the worst thing in the world and something that you can't really deal with as an individual writer; I'm working from a small sample size, but this seems like it might be drawing mostly from FoE itself and maybe Pink Eyes, but I'll give that one the benefit of the doubt since I haven't actually seen any long ones end particularly well; congratulations, you've identified your genre preferences as a problem, not the works themselves (also, they might not be as dark as you think).

Oh, and Hinds . . . ATR? Maybe I have, but if so the acronym isn't clicking with me at the moment.

[Stringtheory]

Oh, and Hinds . . . ATR? Maybe I have, but if so the acronym isn't clicking with me at the moment.

All that remains, Camo's story which he hasn't updated in a long time now...

[Icy Shake]

Ah. Then no, but it's been at the top of my FoE reading list for a while, apart of course from continuing the reread of PH and current updates for PH and MN7.

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