Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[O. Hinds]

Or heck, what about the people in the stasis pods, who are still conscious, commanding robots as surrogate bodies and going about their business in the Stable while their actual bodies are preserved?

Wouldn't that run into the same mental issue that cyberponies have to worry about, though?

I don't think so. They can just decide to stop using the robots as surrogate bodies, and still have their own. IIRC the problematic with cyberponies is that they have lost parts of their original bodies, which has been replaced with something artificial, foreign, which they cannot take back without endangering their lives.

If anything, the problem would be that they wouldn't feel anything at all from their own suspended bodies, so they might need some kind of stimulation so that their brains doesn't "forget" what it's like to have a body.

Well, sure, they could back out of the robots, but then they face extreme restriction at best and full sensory deprivation at worst. A virtual reality would solve that, yes, but why would they want to leave? They're periodically forced out and into a robot? They'd grow to resent the system forcing them to do it. Now, there are interesting ideas involved here, and it might be made to work; the problem is, though, that this Stable isn't meant to experiment with that sort of thing, just to stay closed for as long as possible.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Boroughs of Greater Manehatten :

There are five boroughs comprising the administrative area of the Greater Manehatten. Each of these boroughs are cut in two areas, of reclaimed and un-reclaimed space, separated by guarded walls.

The un-reclaimed space consist in the ruins of the pre-war city, most of it having already been looted of everything of value that wasn't bolted to the ground, the old buildings awaiting demolition and the recycling of their building materials; and the reclaimed space, of course, being the newly rebuilt parts of the city, where the population is concentrated.

Only Tenpony and Unity island consist entirely of “reclaimed” space, the later because of the relatively small size of the island, and the former simply because of the terrain's price.


Tenpony

Occupying the northern fourth of the island of Manehatten, Tenpony is where lie the eponymous tower. It is also where the upper society of the Greater Manehatten, and admittedly of a large part of the NCR, lives.
Clean streets, newly built and maintained to a shining luster buildings, you could almost claim it's even better than the Old World. Old ghouls refuse to comment on that.
Whatever you think of the place, it's where most decisions concerning the State are made, and also where most of the business is done – often behind closed doors.
The security controls to enter the borough are relatively tight, and though everyone is welcome on paper, poor people may find it hard to gain access if local residents were to take a disliking to their presence.


Downtown Manehatten

Most of its inhabitants would say it is the real core of the Greater Manehatten. Occupying the rest of the island of Manehatten, only a third of it so far consist in reclaimed space. It houses almost half of the city's population, crammed into a few neighborhood of recently rebuilt housing.
Most inhabitants work in either the lowly paid jobs coming from the tourism and service industry of Tenpony, dock works in the city's harbor, manual labor in the city's thriving construction sector, or live on a day to day basis out of little jobs.
It's not a life of luxury, but compared to what most older people knew from the Wasteland, it could as well be. At least everyone can count on foodstamps in order to get three meals a day, and they are guaranteed to have a roof over their head.
This doesn't stop the younger generations to hunger for more from life.


Princesses Heights

The industrial heart of Manehatten, situated on its own island. The borough takes its name from the two hills taking a large part of its surface.
Most of the borough's reclaimed space is taken by industry and the city's harbor, the rest being taken by several neighborhood of ill-reputation, catering to the sailors and poor souls basest desires.
The borough is known for its excess, and for the dregs who fill its streets. It is said the few families who control most of the shadow economy in the Greater Manehatten work from this borough, each controlling one of its neighborhod.


Riverside

Between the splendor of Tenpony and the filth of Downtown Manehatten, on the other side of the river, there is a place for the nascent middle class of Manehatten.
Mostly residential, the borough prides itself on the order that reigns in its streets and their neatness thereof. This is mostly due to the bands of armed citizens patrolling its streets, nights and day.
If it is a good place to live if you have the means to acquite yourself of the Citizen Tax, the poorest strata of the population may find visiting the area to be potentially unhealthy for them.
If a number of protests have been voiced toward the borough's security policies and particularly its armed militias, the Manehatten Security Department and the authorities prefer to keep turning a blind eye to them, as for better or for worse, it's one of the most secure places in the state with almost no involvement on their parts.


Unity Island

This relatively small island, only reachable through ferry or aerobus, is home to the University of Manehatten, the biggest of the state since the Twilight Society accepted to move its teaching & research operations in its walls.
Most of the space that isn't taken by the university is taken by student housing, middle class houses, and a few higher class manors.
The whole borough is very well maintained, giving it the appearance of a big park.

[O. Hinds]

Neat! I'm not sure that there's room for all of those islands, though; you may want to move some things onto the mainland. IIRC, SilentCarto's map of Manehattan didn't actually have any islands besides Friendship City.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I am altering the map. Pray that I do not alter it further.


Noted, I'll see what I can do.

Is his map based on canon, or just his vision of the place?

[O. Hinds]

Canon, I think, but of course my maps have diverged rather heavily from the later versions of theirs. I think that PH also disagrees with SilentCarto's Manehattan map.

[Harmony Ltd.]

http://silentcarto.deviantart.com/art/Fallout-Equestria-Map-256089341

Lower left bit

Hmm...

Unity Island would be the island just west of (the ruins of) Friendship City

Princesses Heights would be the island that's west of "raider's nest"

Riverside would be the western shore of the river, with the reclaimed space mostly being over where Arbu was (yes, that's where I'm going... )

And, well, "Manehatten" proper (Tenpony and Downtown) would be the Eastern shore of the river. Tenpony would be the place around the Manehatten Garden (the equivalent of Central Park), and Downtown would be the big empty space south of that, where the blast zone is.

[Harmony Ltd.]

You know what, screw it.



The smallest island is Friendship City.

The biggest island is Princesses Heights

The island between the two is Unity Island


The Friendship City Ruins are in the Unity Island's borough.

[Harmony Ltd.]

What does "GRHAS" stands for, again?

[O. Hinds]

Sorry that it took so long to get back to you. As soon as I finished one thing, sometimes before I finished one thing, another that I had to take care of would pop up.

http://silentcarto.deviantart.com/art/Fallout-Equestria-Map-256089341

Lower left bit

Hmm...

Unity Island would be the island just west of (the ruins of) Friendship City

Princesses Heights would be the island that's west of "raider's nest"

Riverside would be the western shore of the river, with the reclaimed space mostly being over where Arbu was (yes, that's where I'm going... )

And, well, "Manehatten" proper (Tenpony and Downtown) would be the Eastern shore of the river. Tenpony would be the place around the Manehatten Garden (the equivalent of Central Park), and Downtown would be the big empty space south of that, where the blast zone is.

Ah, so one of the bits of the FoE epilogue you ignore is the prison being built on Arbu? Makes sense, actually; I imagine that the NCR much prefers penal labor to providing free room and board to criminals.
Hm, interesting idea for the Moojave, actually: bring in the Powder Gangers.

You know what, screw it.



The smallest island is Friendship City.

The biggest island is Princesses Heights

The island between the two is Unity Island


The Friendship City Ruins are in the Unity Island's borough.

…I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble picturing it. Would you perhaps please label the map?

What does "GRHAS" stands for, again?

Gummy's Retirement Hostel & Alligator Sanctuary
Because Pinkie Pie.

[Harmony Ltd.]

on my phone, so it's gonna be short:

- i'm talking about the three islands on the lower right corner of the map
- i didn't remember that part of the 10-year epilogue, but let's say I prefer the irony of building a middle-class stereotypically 50's racist/classist suburb over Arbu than a prison. Though the penal labor bit also makes sense - they're probably somewhere building roads or tending to crop fields.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Here:

[O. Hinds]

on my phone, so it's gonna be short:

- i'm talking about the three islands on the lower right corner of the map
- i didn't remember that part of the 10-year epilogue, but let's say I prefer the irony of building a middle-class stereotypically 50's racist/classist suburb over Arbu than a prison. Though the penal labor bit also makes sense - they're probably somewhere building roads or tending to crop fields.

Ah, thanks.

Here:

Doesn't that make Friendship Bridge quite long, though? Well, before a Raptor crashed into it, at least.

[Harmony Ltd.]

"Friendship Bridge"? As in, a bridge linking Friendship City with the continent? Forgot there was supposed to be one.

Hmm... I'll to work that a bit.

[Harmony Ltd.]

By the way, remind me... Did Stable 2 get evacuated, or did its inhabitants stay there?

Because if so they are smack dab in the middle in the Hellhound Reservation.

Not that they would need to evacuate if they managed to live together in harmony, but it's just something I note...


'Y'know what, I guess this could even be a somewhat calculated move... The Hellhounds know that Littlepip is quite attached to her home stable, and the NCR knows that if something were to happen to Stable 2 things could go really ugly really fast. So that would give the NCR an incentive to play nice with the Hellhounds. Especially when you add to that the fact that Velvet Remedy is at the head of the Followers, which is probably the most influential non-governmental actor in the NCR, giving her the potential to raise quite a ruckus in the public opinion if she wanted.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Okay, trying to work with Silentcarto's map as is:

- Princesses Heights is on the eastern side of the river [1], southeast of Downtown Manehatten and directly east of Friendship City.
- Riverside takes the whole western shore of the river. See it as New Jersey if you want an analogy.
- Tenpony takes the space around the Manehatten Garden, including Horseshoe Tower (I don't even remember what role that one played in the story) and Tenpony Tower to give an idea of the northern/southern boundaries of the borough; touches the river on its western limit, and ends halfway between Tenpony Tower and the Four Stars Grand Terminal on its eastern limit.
- Downtown Manehatten takes the space between Tenpony and Princesses heights, making it the geographical center of the city.
- Unity Island is the island west of Friendship city on Silentcarto's map. Friendship City itself (the island) is administratively in the borough of Unity Island, as with the little yet-unnamed island north of Friendship City (still on Silentcarto's map of Manehatten).




[1]: how are we going to name that river, by the way? The Trotson River?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Updated version of the Greater Manehatten Metropolitan Area.

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

So, I was thinking... Manehatten has grown quite big, at least relative to what came before, and all these houses and industries need to keep their lights on. So, the question is: where does the power come from?

Well, at first I thought, they're probably using biomass to burn in some steam-to-electricity power plant. However, a quick sanity check seemed to show that the NCR would be hard-pressed producing enough biomass to fuel all of Manehatten energy needs, and the needs of the other cities of the republic, plus producing fuel for the various vehicles the NCR uses, AND, by the way, feeding its population.

The NCR has a ridiculously productive agricultural sector, but still, let's keep it somewhat believable.

So, well, it seems the Alliance win this round: Manehatten runs on oil, at least as far as the power grid goes. As well as the other major cities of the NCR, I guess.

The "question" is: are the generators Alliance-made, or NCR-made? It's most probably a mix of both, with the NCR, as always, trying to close the gap and produce its own stuff.

The steam-generator the NCR produce would be thought out to be able to run either on oil or alcohol.



By the way, remember that lake in the Northern Territories that gives birth to the Trotson River? Remember when I suggested that the reason there is a lake there is because Equestria built an hydroelectric dam?

Well, I think the NCR has now good reasons to take interests in that dam.

[O. Hinds]

"Friendship Bridge"? As in, a bridge linking Friendship City with the continent? Forgot there was supposed to be one.

Hmm... I'll to work that a bit.

Ah, yes. Sorry.

Friendship Bridge was a drawbridge that had once extended all the way from Manehattan to the island. I was astounded how close to intact it still was. There were gaps, but none looked longer than a hundred yards, and there were rope bridges spanning the collapsed sections.
“How did they do that?” I mused, staring at the extensive rope bridges through my binoculars. It seemed like an incredible feat even for unicorn magic. Calamity tapped my shoulder, then grinned and fluttered his wings.
“Oh. Duh.” At some point, Friendship City had become home to at least one Dashite.

One of the Pyrocumulus’ belly cannons swiveled and fired on the ruined warship as it crashed into Friendship Bridge, tearing apart catastrophically.

By the way, remind me... Did Stable 2 get evacuated, or did its inhabitants stay there?

They evacuated, IIRC.
Ah, yes.

Blackwing barked a laugh. “I think she’ll be surprised. Disturbed, maybe. She was hoping for rights to draw from Stable Two’s water talisman. Instead, she’s getting an offer to move the entire damn population of Stable Two, as well as its most valuable assets, to her domain.”

As Velvet Remedy had determined, Stable Two could not afford to remain isolated for much longer. The population needed to genetically spread, to introduce new breeding stock from the Outside. But they couldn’t just open the Stable door. Not with Stable Two near the edge of the Everfree Forest and an hour’s trot from raider territory. They needed to move. Shattered Hoof provided additional population and safety.
With this plan, the water talisman would be moved to Junction R-7, and the entire subterranean apple orchard would be relocated to the mines underneath Shattered Hoof. The ponies of Stable Two would start building homes in the land between Junction R-7 and the old prison. It would be a massive undertaking, but then Old Appleloosa had been built by earth ponies in a single year.

It felt odd knowing that my new home was going to become my old home. Within five years, Junction R-7 was going to be the center of a town.

“I’m more worried about the delay,” I called out. “It’s going to be a few months, at best, before the ponies in Stable Two can actually start the move. Right now, the area outside the Stable is just too dangerous.” The Everfree Forest exodus, however, was just a part of the problem. I was even more worried about retaliation from the Steel Rangers.

So for now, the Stable was sealing itself up again. The ponies of Stable Two needed time to process and cope with the trauma. They needed time to clean the Stable and rebuild their lives. They wouldn’t be able to forget; and part of me thought that was good, as it would prevent them from losing sight of what they owed and the changes that needed to be made.

“Gawd’s patient,” Blackwing commented. “But you’ve got other problems. Only way to ferry the orchard to Shattered Hoof is by rail. And those tracks pass through New Appleloosa.”

Crap. That’s right.

“We’ll work something out,” I assured her. “But I’ve got to deal with Red Eye first.”

Because if so they are smack dab in the middle in the Hellhound Reservation.

Not that they would need to evacuate if they managed to live together in harmony, but it's just something I note...


'Y'know what, I guess this could even be a somewhat calculated move... The Hellhounds know that Littlepip is quite attached to her home stable, and the NCR knows that if something were to happen to Stable 2 things could go really ugly really fast. So that would give the NCR an incentive to play nice with the Hellhounds. Especially when you add to that the fact that Velvet Remedy is at the head of the Followers, which is probably the most influential non-governmental actor in the NCR, giving her the potential to raise quite a ruckus in the public opinion if she wanted.

Well, the population and salvageable stuff isn't there, but the empty shell of the Stable is, along with anything left behind. Perhaps the hellhounds could use it for something?

Okay, trying to work with Silentcarto's map as is:

I assume that you mean just the map of Manehattan, yes? That was still the same in the version of SilentCarto's map that my maps are based on, anyway.

- Princesses Heights is on the eastern side of the river [1], southeast of Downtown Manehatten and directly east of Friendship City.
- Riverside takes the whole western shore of the river. See it as New Jersey if you want an analogy.
- Tenpony takes the space around the Manehatten Garden, including Horseshoe Tower (I don't even remember what role that one played in the story) and Tenpony Tower to give an idea of the northern/southern boundaries of the borough; touches the river on its western limit, and ends halfway between Tenpony Tower and the Four Stars Grand Terminal on its eastern limit.
- Downtown Manehatten takes the space between Tenpony and Princesses heights, making it the geographical center of the city.
- Unity Island is the island west of Friendship city on Silentcarto's map. Friendship City itself (the island) is administratively in the borough of Unity Island, as with the little yet-unnamed island north of Friendship City (still on Silentcarto's map of Manehatten).

Sorry, but I'm afraid that I'm again having trouble visualizing this.

Perhaps this might help?:

Oh, and Horseshoe Tower had did several things in the story, but the most significant for us at the moment is this:

The Glorious Dawn was being dispatched to a rendezvous with the bulk of the Enclave’s forces, amassing for an attack on Fillydelphia. And by attack, they meant cleansing. Slavers, slaves, Rangers, scavengers… they were going to kill them all, and reduce the factories that Red Eye had rebuilt to rubble for good measure.

And they could. I’d just seen them turn Horseshoe Tower into a mound of rubble and slag.

[1]: how are we going to name that river, by the way? The Trotson River?

Sure, why not? :D

Updated version of the Greater Manehatten Metropolitan Area.

Spoiler:

Still sounding good.

So, I was thinking... Manehatten has grown quite big, at least relative to what came before, and all these houses and industries need to keep their lights on. So, the question is: where does the power come from?

Well, at first I thought, they're probably using biomass to burn in some steam-to-electricity power plant. However, a quick sanity check seemed to show that the NCR would be hard-pressed producing enough biomass to fuel all of Manehatten energy needs, and the needs of the other cities of the republic, plus producing fuel for the various vehicles the NCR uses, AND, by the way, feeding its population.

The NCR has a ridiculously productive agricultural sector, but still, let's keep it somewhat believable.

So, well, it seems the Alliance win this round: Manehatten runs on oil, at least as far as the power grid goes. As well as the other major cities of the NCR, I guess.

The "question" is: are the generators Alliance-made, or NCR-made? It's most probably a mix of both, with the NCR, as always, trying to close the gap and produce its own stuff.

The steam-generator the NCR produce would be thought out to be able to run either on oil or alcohol.

I'm thinking reciprocating diesel power plants for the Alliance stuff. Due to the onboard computers, the gensets probably more or less run themselves, but I expect that each power station would have a small Company staff.

Given Manehattan's prominence, location as a seaport, and higher energy needs, though, I suggest that the Alliance presence be slightly higher:

The Sixth Borough:

Thoughts?

By the way, remember that lake in the Northern Territories that gives birth to the Trotson River? Remember when I suggested that the reason there is a lake there is because Equestria built an hydroelectric dam?

Well, I think the NCR has now good reasons to take interests in that dam.

Good point! Supplying Manehattan may well have been part of the dam's original purpose, anyway.

[O. Hinds]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfZFPqitQZA

[Harmony Ltd.]

Shit, sorry, the map you've took upon yourself to clean up is unfortunately the bad one. The correct one would be:

Spoiler:

Anyway, here's the thing that should clear it up:

Spoiler:

1 : Riverside
2 : Tenpony
3 : Downtown Manehatten
4 : Princesses Heights
5 : Unity Island (administratively contain Friendship City)
6 : A-Town

Note: the scale is deduced upon the assumption that the Manehatten Garden has the same dimension as IRL Central Park (3.8km long)

[O. Hinds]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b68nuAMZwo&list=PLDD99DC524518C9CA&index=2

[O. Hinds]

Shit, sorry, the map you've took upon yourself to clean up is unfortunately the bad one. The correct one would be:

…Well okay then. Thanks for the correct one. :)

Anyway, here's the thing that should clear it up:

Spoiler:

1 : Riverside
2 : Tenpony
3 : Downtown Manehatten
4 : Princesses Heights
5 : Unity Island (administratively contain Friendship City)
6 : A-Town

Note: the scale is deduced upon the assumption that the Manehatten Garden has the same dimension as IRL Central Park (3.8km long)

Oh, and a scale too! Thanks. Yes, that looks good.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I'll just note that A-Town is sitting just right next to the heartland of Manehatten's various Mafia families (Princesses Heights). Maybe this could be of some interest? :)

Princesses Heights (PH for short) is also the industrial heart of the city, so putting A-Town just right next to it makes sense.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Shit, sorry, the map you've took upon yourself to clean up is unfortunately the bad one. The correct one would be:

…Well okay then.  Thanks for the correct one.  :)

Want the .XCF gimp file with all the layers?

[Harmony Ltd.]

I think there would probably be some kind of monument at Ground Zero of the balefire detonation site, but I'm not quite sure what yet. Probably a memorial to all the victims of War. All wars. Whereas Friendship city is a memorial for the Bitter War only, the crater monument would commemorate all victims, from all sides, past, present, and future.

I was thinking that the crater itself, or at least a portion of it, would be somewhat preserved. Made into a garden, or an urban farm for the least favored parts of the city's population to grow their own food there if they want, maybe? That would at least have the merit of being poetic.

There's enough space in the rest of Downtown Manehatten that the pressure to reclaim the crater for building space isn't a pressing concern just yet.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, and there's a simple explanation for why A-Town is the main transport link between the NCR and the Alliance even though the NCR technically has land borders with Old Appleoosa, Everfree, and the Governorate of Fillydelphia: on the other side of those borders is Miliozi territory, the Miliozi like to keep tight control over their borders (especially borders with non-Alliance areas), and any shipping would have to pass through either a new Miliozi port or Masozi anyway.
A-Town, by contrast, is almost entirely a Company operation, given the prohibition of military activity.

I'll just note that A-Town is sitting just right next to the heartland of Manehatten's various Mafia families (Princesses Heights). Maybe this could be of some interest? :)

I noticed that. :) On the one hand, while the Alliance is not permitted to try or sentence any NCR citizens arrested for crimes in A-Town, the security in the SAR is, while not quite up to Elusive City levels, extensive. Getting away with a crime or passion would be iffy, much less setting up organized crime. On the other hoof, the Alliance's interests are not necessarily always one hundred percent in accord with those of the NCR's justice system, and if all of the cameras in a small warehouse near the edge of the SAR should happen to be down for maintenance at the same time and something should happen to go missing from said warehouse, well, these unfortunate things just happen sometimes, you know?

Princesses Heights (PH for short) is also the industrial heart of the city, so putting A-Town just right next to it makes sense.

Aye, that makes sense.

Want the .XCF gimp file with all the layers?

Well, I don't know if I could open it (I'm still using an old copy of Photoshop CS3 that I got as a probably-not-legal-but-I-didn't-ask gift from one of the IT staff at my highschool), but I don't see how having it would hurt.

[O. Hinds]

I think there would probably be some kind of monument at Ground Zero of the balefire detonation site, but I'm not quite sure what yet.

I was thinking that the crater itself, or at least a portion of it, would be somewhat preserved. Made into a garden, or an urban farm for the least favored parts of the city's population to grow their own food there if they want, maybe? That would at least have the merit of being poetic.

There's enough space in the rest of Downtown Manehatten that the pressure to reclaim the crater for building space isn't a pressing concern just yet.

Aye, that makes sense.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Note that I made an edit to the post after you posted the above answer.

here's the edit:

Probably a memorial to all the victims of War. All wars. Whereas Friendship city is a memorial for the Bitter War only, the crater monument would commemorate all victims, from all sides, past, present, and future.

Anyway, on my way to sending you a mail.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Noting a thing:

the space available for A-Town is, all things considered, quite small when you factor in how extensive industrial installations and docks can get. So I could see the place as being the first one where actual buildings/skyscrapers would be built on the NCR's territory since the Great War.

If only because I'm sure Elusive will want to cram as many offices of the company as he can in that Special Administrative Zone (or area or region, or whatever).

[O. Hinds]

Note that I made an edit to the post after you posted the above answer.

here's the edit:

Probably a memorial to all the victims of War. All wars. Whereas Friendship city is a memorial for the Bitter War only, the crater monument would commemorate all victims, from all sides, past, present, and future.

Anyway, on my way to sending you a mail.

Ah, thanks.

Noting a thing:

the space available for A-Town is, all things considered, quite small when you factor in how extensive industrial installations and docks can get. So I could see the place as being the first one where actual buildings/skyscrapers would be built on the NCR's territory since the Great War.

Oh, a very good point. The Alliance easily has the technology to build up, bright shining skyscrapers looming over the rest of the city will be a good "Look how great we are!" thing (with both positive and negative consequences) that the NCR can't ban as foreign propaganda (since they're serving an obvious practical purpose), and that will free up space for the things that can't be build up (railyards, for instance). The land area could be further increased by using made land or floating structures.

If only because I'm sure Elusive will want to cram as many offices of the company as he can in that Special Administrative Zone (or area or region, or whatever).

Well, yes and no. He wants as much of a presence in the NCR as possible, but the SAR is still technically under NCR law; keeping sensitive information there, at least in the open and of the sort that the NCR might be able to get a federal search warrant for, would be ill-advised.

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