Re: [Fallout Equestria] Setting discussions

[Scienza]

There's also the question of why there aren't any pegasi among the Stable dwellers or the Steel Rangers, since the Stables were at least representative of pre-war Equestrian populations. After Cloudsdale went down, wouldn't many pegasi have seen that the skies were not a safe haven from megaspell strikes?

We know from both FoE and PH (and also MN7, but it isn't 100% canon to this headcanon exercise) that surfacer pegasi exist. It's not excluded that a number of Stables had pegasi inside them, but they were likely a minority : the Pegasi had a stable all to themselves somewhere in the mountains, AND they also had the Enclave.

Also, I like the idea that of the three Tribes (Earth, Unicorn, Pegasi), pegasi are actually the weakest when it comes to diseases, due to how their metabolism work (they heal wounds faster, but this takes a lot of energy and leave them tired and more vulnerable to infections and other things - in short, they're prone to having their immune systems being overloaded). Which in the context of the Wasteland would explain why we see so few of them (Darwinism) and why the Enclave is so scared of the surface : the risk of epidemics.

As for the Steel Rangers, the Pegasi couldn't wear the steel ranger suit - or more exactly, they couldn't wear it and fly at the same time, and Equestria needed all the flyers it could get its hooves on during the war. That's one of the reasons why the Enclave power armor was developed in the first place.

Maybe later on some pegasi (surfacers or dashite) found their ways into Steel Ranger chapters, but it would be exceptionally rare I think, both because surfacer pegasi are a rare occurrence in the first place, and because the Steel Rangers would be warry of getting possibly infiltrated by Enclave spies.

The epidemic thing is nice, I hadn't thought of that.

The only thing about the Steel Rangers is that they're the remnants of Equestria's Armed Forces, of which the pegasi were a massive part.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yeah, but the Enclave made it pretty clear that it was washing its hooves of any and all problems of the surface, effectively seceding from Equestria in the eyes of the Veterans.

[Harmony Ltd.]

On the other hand, the epidemic thing, it makes it even crazier for the Bitters to start using biological weapons against the surface, given the chances it might bite them back in the ass. But that's a good thing given "irrational bunch of surface-scared prejudiced assholes" is what I'm going for with them.

It would also explain how much scarier Lighthooves' bio-weapons might be to the Enclave leadership, and how much more of a monster that makes him.

[cb5]

452k citizens?  That's it?  I always thought of equestria as like a massive country like russia large, not Malta.  That's iddy bitty.

Remember that Ponyville's pegasi were somehow able to effectively scout out the entire country in one day. Most fanworks inflate the kingdom's size by quite a bit, but it's still nowhere near Russia large. Of course, since it's AU, size is mostly up to the author. In my writing, I usually blow it up by 4-5.

I have a legit question about FoE or any fanfics or even the canon in general.  Why are forcefields played up to be so OP?  What I mean by that is physics wise a theoretical forcefiel exerts a force to dampen kinetic energy.  The most realistic scenario is a microfilament magnetically charge that when you try to cut it it exerts a force back hence a "forcefield".  I'm not saying that a magic forcefield can't exist, or such.  Rather the reason why the military is no longer interested in such a idea is that they have BIG problems with the idea.  The major problems is force, area, size and time.  For stopping bullets and such a magic forcefield would work wonders.

Shield technology came about really late in the war, and so the research is really spotty at best. Think of it as a really strong electromagnetic field which repels all matter, if it makes it easier. It probably isn't one, but it's the closest we can probably get to describing it. Remember that as much as they turned magic into a science, it is still magic, and so our attempts to rationalize it from an Earth-tech standpoint won't be able to actually describe it. For example, take bypass spells. No matter what we do, we can't explain how they work other than that they recognize genetics and that they're magic. We can understand some of the aspects of the layered magic that makes up the spell, but we can't ever really truly rationalize it due to our (most likely) nonmagical nature

Actually bypass spells that can get past shields and such are easy to explain.  If a shield is emitting a force then it must be exerting a form of energy.  Which means it has a frequency to it.  If like you said shields were developed late in the war then no one would have realized that they would have needed more frequencies for their shields to thwart bypass spells yet, cause bypass spells weren't even done yet and no different versions of the shield would exist yet cause there wouldn't have been a need yet.  If a bypass spell works by emitting a frequency that is the same, but at different times so the crest and trough would cancel each other out and the pony could simply walk past the shield.  Think of it as like a password for a firewall.  If someone knows your password they can just insert it and get into your computer.

Also ps. the balefire war was a mass extinction, not a holocaust.

[O. Hinds]

We know from both FoE and PH (and also MN7, but it isn't 100% canon to this headcanon exercise) that surfacer pegasi exist.

Well, I don't consider PH 100% canon for my headcanon either, and there are probably some things that I've changed or omitted from the original.

I think that the stories that are significantly more than 0% canon for my headcanon are FoE, PH, ATR, and MN7.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Well, as I said around the beginning of this thread, my position toward canon is "who even cares ? ". But At least I try to keep the thing relatively consistent with FoE and PH, except for some choice bits (the 10 year epilogue of FoE for example is non-canon with this thread).

MN7, I haven't gotten past chapter 6 or 7, and ATR I haven't gotten past chapter 2-3. But I can take some inspiration from them.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Also ps. the balefire war was a mass extinction, not a holocaust.

Holocaust = "All Consuming Fire"

I also call this event "The Days of Fire". Plural because the balefire exchange continued for several days after the initial attack on Cloudsdale, and because the fires from the balefire bombs themselves continued for several weeks.

Aaaand the reference to the IRL Holocaust is voluntary, as the Equestrian justifiably see it as attempted genocide against them on the part of the Zebra.

[cb5]

Also ps. the balefire war was a mass extinction, not a holocaust.

Holocaust = "All Consuming Fire"

I also call this event "The Days of Fire". Plural because the balefire exchange continued for several days after the initial attack on Cloudsdale, and because the fires from the balefire bombs themselves continued for several weeks.

Aaaand the reference to the IRL Holocaust is voluntary, as the Equestrian justifiably see it as attempted genocide against them on the part of the Zebra.

The Days of Fire is fine. Also it wasn't a genocide. A genocide is a deliberate systematic act of extermination based on race, religion or such. Like I doubt they went, "Okay that's a pony city, that's a griffin city so they're not getting nuked, that's a pony city nuke them, that's a zebra city so they're not getting nuked". If a faction were to go out and begin exterminating other races based on their species or such that would be a genocide, but I don't think that would happen in FoE cause that'd be lazy to insert a pony equivalent of hitler.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Re pegasi in the Steel Rangers :

Though I had actually thought of including some "Steel Ranger" pegasi in that story I was thinking about, but once again the circumstances surrounding their presence there being special.

Spoiler:

[Harmony Ltd.]

Also ps. the balefire war was a mass extinction, not a holocaust.

Holocaust = "All Consuming Fire"

I also call this event "The Days of Fire". Plural because the balefire exchange continued for several days after the initial attack on Cloudsdale, and because the fires from the balefire bombs themselves continued for several weeks.

Aaaand the reference to the IRL Holocaust is voluntary, as the Equestrian justifiably see it as attempted genocide against them on the part of the Zebra.

The Days of Fire is fine.  Also it wasn't a genocide.  A genocide is a deliberate systematic act of extermination based on race, religion or such.  Like I doubt they went, "Okay that's a pony city, that's a griffin city so they're not getting nuked, that's a pony city nuke them, that's a zebra city so they're not getting nuked".  If a faction were to go out and begin exterminating other races based on their species or such that would be a genocide, but I don't think that would happen in FoE cause that'd be lazy to insert a pony equivalent of hitler.

I think you missed the part were by the end of the war both sides were working ways of exterminating each other, and were the Equestrian almost got exterminated in a nuclear balefire exchange.

The intent of the zebra doesn't matter here. It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.

TL;DR : you're missing the point.

[cb5]

I think you missed the part were by the end of the war both sides were working ways of exterminating each other, and were the Equestrian almost got exterminated in a nuclear balefire exchange.

The intent of the zebra doesn't matter here. It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.

TL;DR : you're missing the point.

The purpose was to destroy the other country not racial "cleansing".

[Harmony Ltd.]

I think you missed the part were by the end of the war both sides were working ways of exterminating each other, and were the Equestrian almost got exterminated in a nuclear balefire exchange.

The intent of the zebra doesn't matter here. It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.

TL;DR : you're missing the point.

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.

[cb5]

I think you missed the part were by the end of the war both sides were working ways of exterminating each other, and were the Equestrian almost got exterminated in a nuclear balefire exchange.

The intent of the zebra doesn't matter here. It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.

TL;DR : you're missing the point.

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.

Using the proper definition of words is a wonderful thing.

[Harmony Ltd.]

It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.

It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.

It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.

It's how the Equestrians see what has been done to them : an attempted genocide.


I can't be more clear if I wanted to.

Now either drop it or GTFO, I don't want to have to deal with that kind of pedantic nitpickery bullshit.

[cb5]

Random thought: If taint is so dangerous why wasn't it before the war a controlled substance or stored properly? In real life industry dangerous chemicals are handled all the time and while there are accidents often they're handled properly cause there's osha. Why was taint literally just stuck inside regular old barrels and such? Even in the original FoE there's records of accidents happening, such as the pony who was moving a barrel and it burst all over them. Did they not have safety standards? Considering that filly has catwalks without guardrails I don't think so.

[Frost]

That's a reference to the original Fallout, which also has a glaring lack of safety standards. This, in turn, is based on the generally unsafe practices of the 50's, upon whose ideals of the future Fallout is based.

[Harmony Ltd.]

What Frost said, yeah.

It's a recurring theme / gag in Fallout that employers just didn't give a shit about either workers rights or workplace safety ("What are you ? A Communist ?!").

[O. Hinds]

Here's a thing I've just knocked together. Oh, and it turns out that satellites have been mentioned in PH prior to the most recent chapter; I'd forgotten that.

The Pax Roamana began at something of a disadvantage in orbit. While the SSTO spaceplane using alchemical tripropellant that Profectum eventually developed could in fact deliver payloads to orbit more cheaply than (and without the radiation hazard of) Equestria's TSTO LAMTR rockets, Equestria had a head start, was expecting its second generation launchers to be full SSTO MTR torchships, and could put payloads into a wider variety of orbits thanks to having delta v limited only by the endurance of its reactors. If Equestria had had targeting systems good enough to make orbit-denial beam satellites, the PR wouldn't have been able to get into space at all. By the time Equestria began implementing such systems, however, the Pax Roamana already both had a presence in orbit and its own (though less effective) orbit-denial systems. Since either side making use of their orbit denial systems would lead to the other side doing the same, heavily damaging even the victor, and cluttering Equus orbit with potentially enough debris to render it unusable to anyone anyway, C.A.R.E. prevailed above as below (until, of course, it stopped prevailing below, at which point everything in orbit let loose as well). Instead, most of the activity in orbit was observation and communication, a few tactical weapon satellites taking shots now and then. There was, though, one other activity in orbit, and here the Pax Roamana had an advantage in its cloaking technology. While Equestrian spacecraft, robots, or astroponies would be destroyed before they could board Zebra satellites, cloaked navipatia (second declension) were able to board and either capture or disable several Equestrian satellites.

What do you think?

[Harmony Ltd.]

Kinda make sense.

Can you explain all those acronyms, though ? I get SSTO (single-stage-to-orbit) and TSTO (two-stages-to-orbit), but the rest I am unsure about.

The CARE bit about orbit-denial systems makes sense, and is realistic in that regard : if the USSR had launched anti-satellite missiles against the hypothetic american SDI, it would have likely been seen as the opening stage of a nuclear attack. And even an attack against spy or communication satellites, with the damage it would do to the whole orbit with the mass of debris generated, would have at least provoked a diplomatic upheaval.

The Chinese took a lot of flak when they destroyed one of their old satellite in a test of their anti satellite missile, the international community condemning them for the amount of space debris generated.

In a climate of cold war, and even more a climate of red hot war (in the context of FoE), that kind of shit wouldn't likely have flown without provoking a massive retaliatory strike.

The thing I am unsure about is that, even if disabling enemy satellites would be seen as "fair" in the context of an open war if they don't start exploding them and producing lots of debris, actually doing it runs a serious risk of escalating the conflict further. So my guess is that it's a thing that would have happened once the situation became desperate on the ground, and the eventuality of a balefire exchange became more and more certain for both sides.

If that makes sense ?

[Scienza]

Random thought: If taint is so dangerous why wasn't it before the war a controlled substance or stored properly?  In real life industry dangerous chemicals are handled all the time and while there are accidents often they're handled properly cause there's osha.  Why was taint literally just stuck inside regular old barrels and such?  Even in the original FoE there's records of accidents happening, such as the pony who was moving a barrel and it burst all over them.  Did they not have safety standards?  Considering that filly has catwalks without guardrails I don't think so.

Why was lead, such a harmful substance, allowed to permeate every aspect of our lives, from our drinking water, to our food, to even the the air we breathed? a) Corporate powers were making a killing off the sale of it, and didn't want that to end. They published their own "reports, suppressed any research suggesting otherwise, and made deals with government officials to prevent any form of regulation from being passed (in the case of FoE, the MWT) b) it was already everywhere. It was in our plumbing, in our gasoline, and even in the solder on food containers. At least initially, the public wouldn't have seen that many ill-effects. It wouldn't have shown up on any conventional tests (lead builds up in the bones instead of being excreted), and people probably wouldn't have even known that it was entering their bodies. Which is how we ended up with a world where lead in old pipes can get a school shut down and gas stations specifically say that they sell unleaded gasoline.

This is going by the flux explanation of taint rather than the the greatly flawed IMP explanation.

[O. Hinds]

Can you explain all those acronyms, though ? I get SSTO (single-stage-to-orbit) and TSTO (two-stages-to-orbit), but the rest I am unsure about.

LAMTR and MTR are basically just "LANTR" and "NTR" with "Magical" swapped for "Nuclear". Oh, and, uh, those stand for "LOX Augmented Nuclear Thermal Rocket" and "Nuclear Thermal Rocket". My idea is that, since Equestria has hydrogen talismans and heat magic, their propulsion system consists of hydrogen talismans feeding a magical heating system, both powered by an onboard reactor. This gives unlimited delta v until the reactor runs out. However, since PH depicts the rockets has having boosters attached, the rockets must not be able to manage more than one gravity of acceleration, and, while the boosters will work on the way up, they won't work very well on the way down. My solution is to make the first generation, the stuff we see in PH, LAMTR; the ships go up on boosters (solid, I'm thinking at the moment) and inject the LOX when they needs extra thrust for landing.

The thing I am unsure about is that, even if disabling enemy satellites would be seen as "fair" in the context of an open war if they don't start exploding them and producing lots of debris, actually doing it runs a serious risk of escalating the conflict further. So my guess is that it's a thing that would have happened once the situation became desperate on the ground, and the eventuality of a balefire exchange became more and more certain for both sides.

If that makes sense ?

I think so, though my thinking was that Equestria, if all went according to plan, wouldn't know that the satellites in question had been captured or disabled; to Equestria, it would look like business as usual or as if the satellites suffered a chance failure.
Operations of this sort wouldn't have been done very often (and would have had their costs questioned), but, when they went well, they could be very productive; I highly doubt that Equestria thought to prepare their satellites against a navipatium physically boarding them. Equestrian satellites were, if you could get to them, relatively open windows into "secure" and important networks and were built mostly of Equestria's cutting-edge secret tech (star batteries, anyone?).

[O. Hinds]

Also, invisible zebra astronaut commando spies. I will of course yield if it turns out that Rule of Cool is the only substantial argument for this... but I think that it's definitely an argument for this.

[O. Hinds]

Oh, and the same cloaking technology developed for the raids could potentially be extended to satellites, which would make the Pax Roamana's orbit denial systems a lot more effective.

[Harmony Ltd.]

I always thought star batteries were genuine alien artifacts, to be honest. I liked the idea (as well as in Fallout, before Mothership Zeta, that I still haven't played..) that there is actually something lurking in the cold vastness of space, obeserving Earth / Equestria, bidding its time / going about its own business.

But now that you mention it, it could make some sense that they would actually be extreme examples of wartime-Equestrian cutting-edge engineering. [*]

Though that wouldn't explain the Star Blaster...

I don't remember... How did Homage said she found the Star Blaster and its batter(y)(ies) again ?


[*] : I suppose the explanation you could give as to why the über powerful batteries haven't been used in "terrestrial" applications is that their cost (be it in term of resources, manufacturing or magic) is so great that satellites is the only case where their use makes sense.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Re believability :

I don't know, there's just so little we know about the Equestrian space program apart from the fact they successfully landed a mare on the Moon...

We don't know to which extent they had developed the military side of space. We do however know they have space-based weaponries, at least as of the most recent PH chapter, but as far as I'm aware we don't really have an idea of how much assets both sides had deployed up there.

I do agree the concept is cool, and I have little doubt they would have put it in practice if they could (example : the Soviets and IIRC the Americans as well actually launched manned surveillance satellites during the Cold War), I'm just wondering it it would fit, thematically, with the rest of the setting.

But considering that in the original Fallout series it's hinted at that the Space Industry was really well developed before the bombs fell, I don't really see a reason to say no considering all that I said above.

So yeah, I suppose the concept is a go ?

[O. Hinds]

But now that you mention it, it could make some sense that they would actually be extreme examples of wartime-Equestrian cutting-edge engineering.

Right.  Perhaps involving starmetal…

Though that wouldn't explain the Star Blaster...

I don't remember... How did Homage said she found the Star Blaster and its batter(y)(ies) again ?

As Homage closed the safe, I took notice of the last item mounted inside the safe.  It was some sort of magical energy pistol, but not of any make I had ever seen, and with a grip that wouldn’t fit in any pony’s mouth.

Curiosity sparked, I asked Homage about it.

“Long story,” she told me.  “One night, Jokeblue and I were poking our hooves around Fetlock, trying to find a Stable we’d heard rumors about, when there was a strange explosion that lit up the clouds above.  At first, we thought it was thunder, but then all sorts of debris started raining out of the sky.  Chunks of the strangest sky-wagon you ever laid eyes on.  We took cover in a burned-out passenger wagon.  When it was over, I found that thing amongst the rubble.”  Homage chuckled.  “Okay, maybe not that long a story.”

“What is it?”

“Nastiest magical gun the Equestrian Wasteland has ever seen to my knowledge.  One shot from that thing will turn whatever you hit into vapor.  And not like the magical energy weapons you’ve seen, which do that only once in a blue moon.  Every.  Single.  Time.”  Homage actually sounded scared of the gun.  “I believe you could kill a dragon with one shot from that thing.”  And with those words, so did I.

“Where did it come from?” I wondered aloud.  The idea that there were ponies… the pegasi maybe… with weapons that devastating chilled me tail to forehooves.

“Jokeblue figured it was from some sort of flying tank that the pegasi were experimenting with that blew up on them.  Me…”  Homage swallowed.  “I know I’m being foalish, but I can’t help but think it fell from a lot higher than that.”

“Higher?”  I had the strange mental image of items falling to Equestria from the moon, emptying from Nightmare Moon’s toy chest.

And remember that Neighvarro had a whole storeroom full of star batteries.  My idea is that the star blasters are modified (or potentially straight, actually; the reason why the grip looks so odd is that it isn't a grip, just a partially-melted mounting bracket) space-to-space weapons.  That's why they're so powerful; they were intended to fire at targets hundreds of kilometers away and possibly not even over the horizon yet, so of course when you use them at ground combat ranges…

I suppose the explanation you could give as to why the über powerful batteries haven't been used in "terrestrial" applications is that their cost (be it in term of resources, manufacturing or magic) is so great that satellites is the only case where their use makes sense.

Right.

I do agree the concept is cool, and I have little doubt they would have put it in practice if they could (example : the Soviets and IIRC the Americans as well actually launched manned surveillance satellites during the Cold War), I'm just wondering it it would fit, thematically, with the rest of the setting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salyut_3#On-board_gun
That's the seventies, admittedly, but I think that it's still fifties-retro-future enough to serve as an example.

So yeah, I suppose the concept is a go ?

Thanks!  Though I'd prefer more certainty.  It probably wasn't done very much anyway, though; the rewards are big, but so are the expense and danger.

[Harmony Ltd.]

Yeah, odds of it being ever mentioned anywhere in a story or during an RPG campaign are pretty slim, but it's an interesting background element to the setting, and, heh, it is cool.

I could imagine a Profectum ghoul rambling about the wartime space-program of the PR and recounting tales of the few times they actually launched zebra in space just in order to disable an Equestrian satellite, with a glint of pride in his eyes at seeing the dropped jaws of the people he's counting the story to, like "woah, they sure were crazy bastards, but hell if they got the job done".

[StoneSlinger88]

Going with the Fallout setting, in Broken Steel DLC for FO3, an orbital strike hits Liberty Prime-- as well as a place of the player's choosing in the finale. This is probably the source of inspiration Somber took when he revealed the armed satellites.

[Harmony Ltd.]

The Van Buren / Interplay script for Fallout 3 also had the final level take place in a space station in orbit (B.O.M.B. 001).

[Harmony Ltd.]

BY the way, if people here don't know about it, I think the following may interest them, at least by curiosity :

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Bible

[Sponsored content]