Re: KSP General + community project

[Kippershy]

So, since people have been getting into this game, reviving the thread!
I'll be redoing my whole series of lessons to give a clearer, shorter, more educational way about them for anyone interested, and I've already re-recorded the third lesson which was about docking.

Going to re-record the other two lessons now - basic tutorial, orbiting and more advanced designing.

[Moodyman90]

Went back to my working rocket design. By adding one more fuel tank to my home made first stage boosters. Proved all the difference as they where able to get a whole lot further then what I was expecting and after a while was actually able to achieve orbit with my satellite.

I'm pretty sure I'm still a long ways off from doing that reliably and trips to the Mun even longer, but it's a start.

[Kippershy]

Did a revamped version of lesson 1, 22 minutes long, entirely filled with useful information. (Hopefully).
Shows off a very lightweight, very capable craft. Gives tips on how to efficiently get orbit. Runs through basic maneuver node options and does the job a lot better.

Refining it in WMM right now (...I really need to torrent Sony Vegas Pro or something...) and I'll upload it to youtube ASAP.
Lesson two covers getting to Mun and landing... (only semi successfully) and also covers interplanetary intercepts with a theoretical node being made and showing how easy it can be, though I had no thrusters on the craft so I couldn't show for real. (Used my station as an example of how to do interplanetary intercept nodes.)
Lesson three, which I've already re-recorded, was about docking.
Lesson four will be about rescuing the stranded Jebediah. (Not the first time!) and returning to earth (or my station... whichever anyone would rather.)

I'll be sure to post them as and when they're ready.

[Vergil]

I'm trying to resist playing until the next patch since iirc it will break saves again...but I dunno how long I can hold out.

[Kippershy]

Yeah, next patch will render all save-games useless.
I'm not doing any big projects right now exactly because of that.
However, I'm always happy to do these vids because KSP is a confusing, complex game when you aren't in the know but simple when you are, so helping others (if they so wish) makes me feel good.

[Kippershy]

Lesson One: (revamped)


Lesson two: (revamped)


Lesson three: (revamped)

[Moodyman90]

So the next update will render all my hard work the past three days useless? Awesome, just like the Space program in real life haha.

Eh, realistically I won't lose much progress, but it still sucks.

[Kippershy]

Well, recent news says maybe not. They're working on something to be able to upgrade all gamesaves, but if you have any mods in use on any of your craft it DEFINITELY won't work and even then it's not 100% right now, but apparently some things are managing to work.
Keep hope, they might be able to pull it off.

[Moodyman90]

Maybe I do need to asking for help and watching videos...


I was aiming for the Mun and I ended up putting my Mun Lander into an orbit similar to Duna... Not the exact same one but that's how far out it got.

Meanwhile in my re-tweaking of designs I managed to kill Jedidiah, Bill and Bob in succession.

[Kippershy]

Sounds like you burnt for too long if you came anywhere close to hitting Duna.
Press 'M' for the map view and the . on your numberpad to bring up the navball so you can control angle and thrust.
(Or simply click the little tab at the bottom.)

The other method is to set yourself up a manoeuvre node so you know -exactly- how much thrust you're going to want and then only burn that.

[Moodyman90]

I probably did but at the same time it doesn't make sense that I did.
The attempt I did before that one took me further away from the planet I had ever been before yet I couldn't break away from it's influence and came back down. The attempt in which I could have gone to Duna I wasn't even half as far away form Krebin as before and yet I somehow broke influence and just kept going.

[Harmony Ltd.]

It is now my goal to build a succesful mission using this mod :

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom

[Harmony Ltd.]

For added difficulties, I want to mount the orion stack on a rocket such that I won't have to engage the atomic propulsion until after I've left the atmosphere of Kerbin (past 60 kilometers).

[Kippershy]

For added difficulties, I want to mount the orion stack on a rocket such that I won't have to engage the atomic propulsion until after I've left the atmosphere of Kerbin (past 60 kilometers).

Probably not possible. If you've seen the videos, you'll know why.
60k is a height and a half and the Orion drive is... heavy.

I probably did but at the same time it doesn't make sense that I did.
The attempt I did before that one took me further away from the planet I had ever been before yet I couldn't break away from it's influence and came back down. The attempt in which I could have gone to Duna I wasn't even half as far away form Krebin as before and yet I somehow broke influence and just kept going.

 Sounds like you didn't get proper orbit around the planet or something? You need 80k minimum orbit to be safe, circularise it so you're at a minimum of 80/80 or 90/70. If you want to be real ballsy, 45/150 DOES work because of how erratic the orbit is, but there's no point in doing that unless you want to be extra efficient in your escape from Kerbin and off to whatever planet or moon using an O-birth effect.
...but you don't want to be trying that until you're certain of your skills.

[hawkeye92]

Well, I made it to the moon and back with a semi- Apollo style landing (I cheated and had the craft pre-docked). I fudged the docking of the lander and command module in orbit though so the crew had to space walk the last hundred metres to the command module.
I also really like the new multiple pods thing and unmanned computers which are really small- I can clean up spent stages much more easily now, especially in space station construction where the heavy lift stage is often jettisoned within a few km of the station and still full of fuel.

If anyone gets what this screenshot is based on I'll applaud your taste in entertainment.




Also I bought the version direct from squad. You get a package you can just put and run anywhere, so I have a big KSP folder in my documents with each new version in it's own folder so I can complete older projects while playing around with the newest version. I'm not sure you'd be able to do it through steam though.

[Ketchup]

If anyone gets what this screenshot is based on I'll applaud your taste in entertainment.

The Terran Empire flag from the Star Trek mirror universe. I believe that particular shot is from Enterprise. Heh, that's really funny.

[hawkeye92]

If anyone gets what this screenshot is based on I'll applaud your taste in entertainment.

The Terran Empire flag from the Star Trek mirror universe. I believe that particular shot is from Enterprise. Heh, that's really funny.

 you got it exactly right. It's from the modified Enterprise intro they used for the two mirror universe episodes, In a Mirror Darkly. I guess it's no surprise that the episode is often listed in the top ten Star Trek episodes of all time.

[Kippershy]

.21's out and seems like it's been patched, too. Anyone else enjoying the changes?

[Vergil]

Absolutely, at the very least because it means I can play again!

[Harmony Ltd.]

Where can I download the KSP updater ? I don't find it anywhere on the KSP online shop.

[Harmony Ltd.]

by the way, this may interest people : http://kerbalspaceport.com/procedural-fairings/

[Ketchup]

Okay, so I've recently been endeavouring to land a craft on Mun. Simple to some, it is my first significant achievement beyond a stable orbit.
This took many attempts, and only two of them hit Mun with the result of the first 'landing' being obvious.
Some screenshots of the craft used. My skill at building spacecraft is limited, but at least they (sort of) work.

Spoiler:

The part I'm at least a bit proud of is the lander, though it only carried Jeb and nothing else. The next lander is planned to carry a rover with 2 seats and two kerbonauts.

Spoiler:

Here's the craft itself. MOAR BOOSTERS!

Using that, I managed to place the lander intact on the surface. Unfortunately, while testing the ability to reposition itself which it was designed to do, I ran out of fuel. In a panic, and approaching the surface at quite a high velocity, I ejected Jeb hoping to use his jetpack to escape the catastrophe. This didn't work quite as planned. Fortunately, as it turns out. Everything except Jebedia Kerman and the Lander Can was destroyed, them both rolling (hilariously, I might add) along the surface for about a kilometer and landing close to each other. Then, using the SAS module to roll it along the surface, I rolled it into a crater.
Screenshot before attempting:

Spoiler:

That's when things got weird.
As this was happening the screen went black and displayed Jeb's altitude as 666666. I restarted the game to find Jeb gone and the Lander going out of the solar system with no gravitational influences, according to the map. Screenshots:

Spoiler:

There ends that adventure. Rather surprising and disappointing, and nullifying the possibility of the planned rescue mission.

[Kippershy]

The kraken got you.

[Kippershy]

.22 soon fellow Kerbalnauts.
Seriously though, looking at your designs Ketch, I can see a few issues but I also see merit.
-Too little fuel on the lander means you have to be extremely precise with your landing procedure. Going for an highly elliptical orbit to do a horizontal burn would be madness and even burning at perigee for a long trip down would gain you unnecessary speed and potentially push into dangerous levels of Delta/V requirement to pull off.
-You use a parachute yet the amount of fuel you carry makes it unlikely you'll be able to return to Kerbin. Unless it's a mid-flight safety precaution, completely deadweight.
-You follow the school of more boosters, which is fun and I won't deny that, but highly inefficient without asparagus staging. (Though with asparagus staging, more efficient than other, cleaner methods.)


However, you DO have an option to save him with. I present to you the cheatiest mod outside of MechJeb:
http://kerbalspaceport.com/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701/
Someone else got the exact same bug and a group who is normally filled with autistic hate for cheat mods (No, really. A few of the members ARE autistic.) and when it happened, we all agreed it was necessary.
You CAN save him. That mod... man, that mod just changes EVERYTHING.

[Ketchup]

.22 soon fellow Kerbalnauts.
Seriously though, looking at your designs Ketch, I can see a few issues but I also see merit.
-Too little fuel on the lander means you have to be extremely precise with your landing procedure. Going for an highly elliptical orbit to do a horizontal burn would be madness and even burning at perigee for a long trip down would gain you unnecessary speed and potentially push into dangerous levels of Delta/V requirement to pull off.
-You use a parachute yet the amount of fuel you carry makes it unlikely you'll be able to return to Kerbin. Unless it's a mid-flight safety precaution, completely deadweight.
-You follow the school of more boosters, which is fun and I won't deny that, but highly inefficient without asparagus staging. (Though with asparagus staging, more efficient than other, cleaner methods.)


However, you DO have an option to save him with. I present to you the cheatiest mod outside of MechJeb:
http://kerbalspaceport.com/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701/
Someone else got the exact same bug and a group who is normally filled with autistic hate for cheat mods (No, really. A few of the members ARE autistic.) and when it happened, we all agreed it was necessary.
You CAN save him. That mod... man, that mod just changes EVERYTHING.

The lander isn't meant to orbit and land on Mun by itself. I land it by setting the course to impact it, and slowing down with the maneuver stage before that runs out and then switching to the lander for the actual landing a few kilometres from the surface. The first time I crashed while using the same approach, but that was due to extraneous fuel usage while achieving a somewhat circular orbit and getting there, and preventing that stage from being used for that purpose.
If I interpret what you say correctly, I did what you said is madness, more or less. Just not with the lander. The next version will not have the emergency parachute(every time I try to use that one it just breaks anyway, and I had to land the thing on Kerbin twice with the engines on it instead) and will have additional smaller engines for moon hopping, as well as testing the ability for the Separatron to be used as an emergency booster. I'm going to try it again before going for a rover.

As for the boosters, I've had similar ideas to this 'asparagus staging' idea, but I've never put it into practice because of limitations in the construction. I couldn't put things where I wanted them, essentially.

As for saving him, I don't think I will. That just looks like a magic ship, so I could just put him there, and then get him again. But as for saving him literally, Jeb was eaten by the kraken.
MechJeb is an autopilot, right? Doesn't that defeat the purpose and triumph?

Just to add, I'll probably do commentary on at least one of the chapters of BB that I haven't read yet in the near future, tomorrow maybe.

[Kippershy]

Oh, that's clever then. Props to you for thinking about that.
As for the parachute problem, it's not so much the parachute you're using but its placement. Unity is horrible for this but there is a fix. What you need to do is to move the RCS fuel tank below your lander can so that your parachute connects directly to the lander - or find a way of killing your velocity before the 500m (from surface) mark.
Remember, the main height scale goes off of sea level (or the lowest constant point) for any planet or moon. Meaning on Mun, it's measuring the deepest crater and not the mountain ranges for example.
You can alleviate this issue by either using the IVA radio altimeter (not available in all craft) or eyeball it.
There are also mods like KerbalEngineer that have no auto-pilot capabilities but do give you essential information, very handy while still making you do the actual work.

Asparagus staging simply means dropping engines in a linear fashion and using fuel pumps to make it so they all take fuel from the lowest stage first.
You should be able to do that and keep your designs the way you want them to be, though you'd have to be careful about the balance of it all.

Yes, the enterprise is a magic ship. It takes off from Kerbin in about a second and achieves escape velocity in twenty.
It's cheaty as fuck but in cases where you don't want to lose your Kerbalnaut and they've been attacked by the devil kraken (kraken being a general term for glitches like this in KSP, devil kraken being the 666666 version) it becomes acceptable because it wasn't your own fault but the games.
I don't have it installed myself, but it's something I've seen the KSPGeneral be okay with, like I say.

As for MechJeb, yup, full auto-pilot and I'm glad you see it that way. It's a awful mod that takes the fun out of things but allows twelve year old kids to feel they've achieved something when in truth, all they've done is designed a ship that can do it if a computer figures out how to do so and even then they have MechJeb giving them information on how much fuel/thrust/weight they have and if they'll have enough to reach each planet and so on.
It's a joke and should be avoided at all costs.
You're better off asking a competent player how to do something and hope they can give you an easily understood explanation so you can try it for yourself if you need help.


Lastly, cool. Thank you!

[Ketchup]

Not entirely my idea, I watched some of a guide on YouTube for setting courses and modified it, that one didn't collide with it in it's initial course, but I didn't watch past instructions on using the navball to accurately go places because I actually wanted to try it myself. Basically, it told me 'this is how you do this, modify it for the situation'.
So not all the credit goes to me, just had to learn how to play, so to speak. I hadn't fully understood the maneuver planning system in particular.

All my designs have had the same problem with that parachute. It just breaks off no matter what it's attached to, so I just use radial ones when they are needed. I get what basically causes it to do so. Too much velocity. My recent flights have given me more insight on using the instruments provided, so I know how much of it works.

[Kippershy]

Dude, that's perfectly fine. The tutorial system needs a total overhaul as it is so learning the basics is no shame at all.
I had to call on a fair bit of help to get myself started, but once I got the hang of it, well, I've done some cool shit since.
Just learnt how to make Single Stage To Orbit planes recently.

[Moodyman90]

I either don't have the mind for rockets or I never play with the right state of mind. I can make orbit abd fling crap into deep space, but getting close to anything is by accident hehe.

[Kippershy]

Easy mode to reach mun:

-Get a rocket that can achieve orbit with at least half of a fuel tank left (of reasonable size)
-Wait for your orbit to have the Mun just over the horizon.
-Face PROGRADE which is the circle with the three prongs poking OUT of it and not the cross through it which is retrograde
-Burn. Press M for map and your . (on the keypad) to bring up the engine controls (or the little arrow at the bottom of the screen) and wait for the encounter to reach the Mun.
Easy!

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